When the issue is mixed orientation, there is no betrayal of the straight spouse.

Oh, there most definitely is. The entire relationship is a betrayal. I'm the PP whose husband was cheating with men. I feel similarly to the PP before me whose wife left him and came out. My ex robbed me of 22 years of my life -- the prime years that set your course. It is most definitely a betrayal that he didn't (and still doesn't!) have the strength to be honest with himself and me by extension.

I'm on the other side of this man whose wife has come out. It hurts. And for some reason, people think I'm not supposed to hurt. They think I should be happy because "it's not me", and "at least she didn't cheat". All those times she didn't want to sleep with me or complained about what I was doing, weren't really about me. That's great, right? It doesn't feel great. It doesn't feel great to know that the life you built with someone was a total lie. It doesn't feel great to know that the person you love, never loved you in the way you thougt they did. But I'm selfish for thinking this way. I wonder if she just used me to have kids. I'm supposed to be happy she's brave enough to live her truth and find her happiness. Maybe someday I will get there, but right now I resent her a lot and find it hard to be around her except when I have to be because of our kids. Thankfully the kids are young enough that none of this seems to be affecting them. So great for your friends, OP I hope your friend's husbands are doing better than I am.

Anonymous wrote:I know I shouldn’t let the MRA poster get to me so much, but it is infuriating having someone make wild assumptions and accusations, who has absolutely no understanding of what women of limited means in unhappy marriages have to go through and put up with in order to get out. He keeps talking as if he loved a woman who left him for someone else. Clearly he is not my ex.

This poster pops up from time to time and it is always the same. I never hear this type of vitriol from them when a woman decides to leave her husband for any other reason - only the reason in the scenario that this thread is about.
The only explanation I can think of is homophobia and misogyny.

NP. It seems they aren’t the only ones who are making wild assumptions.

I know I shouldn’t let the MRA poster get to me so much, but it is infuriating having someone make wild assumptions and accusations, who has absolutely no understanding of what women of limited means in unhappy marriages have to go through and put up with in order to get out. He keeps talking as if he loved a woman who left him for someone else. Clearly he is not my ex.

This poster pops up from time to time and it is always the same. I never hear this type of vitriol from them when a woman decides to leave her husband for any other reason - only the reason in the scenario that this thread is about.
The only explanation I can think of is homophobia and misogyny.

Anonymous wrote:I suppose I don’t know what it’s like to tell a child you’re leaving because you fell in love with someone else, but my straight and gay friends who were in mixed orientation marriages say that their kids took it really well. When the issue is mixed orientation, there is no betrayal of the straight spouse. It is completely different. And it is great for kids to see their parents not suffer through a marriage just because our heteronormative culture demands it.

Your friends saying their kids "took it really well" is not proof in any sense of the word.

A man leaving his wife for another man or woman leaving her husband for another woman is a betrayal of the spouse that was left behind. You are using the "mixed orientation" term as a justification of the separation when just about any distinguishing factor (race, appearance) could be used in the same way.

This is just one anecdote, but my dad came out as gay when I was in middle school (I’m early 40s now). He and my mom stayed married. I don’t think I ever blamed either parent, but life was pretty miserable for both of them- I wish in many ways they had divorced and just coparented. Either way, I don’t think that kids care about their parents sexuality- it’s the leaving that is damaging. I knew another family where the dad came out and left the family to pursue a relationship. That was incredibly damaging, but because he left, not because he came out.

Anonymous wrote:

Lol says the man who has zero idea what it’s like to be a woman living in the patriarchy.

Patriarchy? You mean like one that supported you as you lied to your husband (and children) every night you worked to build a better life for yourself? How long did you keep the lying up after you knew you were going to leave him? A year? Five years? Ten?

You acted like everything was fine, and that you still loved him, while you moved from (in your words) one job, to the next, to the next. Did you tell him that you loved him knowing he was a living student loan funding your career growth? What about his dreams? During the years you were job jumping, did he want more kids? Kids he could have had with an honest wife?

You gave your children the lesson that it is okay to lie to those who love you as long as it benefits you in the end.

The worst thing of all is that you are proud of it.

Actually I was promoted very quickly without getting extra schooling so it did not take that long.
“Living student loan”? Wtf are you talking about? The entire time we were married, we were either both working, or I was at home taking care of babies and young kids, or I was working and had kids in daycare and was doing drop offs and pick up. We BOTH benefitted from living in the same house. How great would it have been for him if we were supporting two households while kids were in daycare? At least try to think things through before being such a jerk.

Anonymous wrote:

NP. I agree that everything you did was centered on what was best for you, maybe for your kids, with no thought to your DH. There is no way that once you figured out you were gay that you had a typical marital relationship with your DH. You hid things from him to benefit yourself instead of acting with respect and integrity.

+1000

What does acting with respect and integrity look like to you, in this situation? Specifics?

Anonymous wrote:

Tell me how it would have helped this DH to know sooner, like when the wife was a SAHM. Yeah, I’m sure that would have turned out so well for him…

We will never know how things might have turned out if his wife was honest with him.

He might have found someone who loved him during the time his wife was working to leave him. He might have wanted, and had, more kids. I really hope the PP did not have her kids while she was plotting to take the money and run. However, we do not know that either.

Tell me, how has having someone you love lying to you helped you in your life?

He did not treat me as though he loved me. He did not treat me as an equal.
If I had felt loved, I might have accepted that I might never be with a woman, and stayed with him.
But that was already gone.
You never answered about what I “should” have done when I first had inklings that I couldn’t stay.
Be kicked out onto the street with no way to support myself?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I suppose I don’t know what it’s like to tell a child you’re leaving because you fell in love with someone else, but my straight and gay friends who were in mixed orientation marriages say that their kids took it really well. When the issue is mixed orientation, there is no betrayal of the straight spouse. It is completely different. And it is great for kids to see their parents not suffer through a marriage just because our heteronormative culture demands it.

Your friends saying their kids "took it really well" is not proof in any sense of the word.

A man leaving his wife for another man or woman leaving her husband for another woman is a betrayal of the spouse that was left behind. You are using the "mixed orientation" term as a justification of the separation when just about any distinguishing factor (race, appearance) could be used in the same way.

Oh god. No. You are so wrong about many things but that last sentence especially.

Let’s say you are a straight woman. What if from the moment you were born, everyone told you you had to marry a woman. You had to have sex, have a romantic life, cuddle, etc., with a woman. You would never get butterflies, enjoy sex, etc. Can you see how awful that would be, even if you could build a good friendship and partnership? There would be something seriously missing in your life.

And that’s why this is a different scenario for the kids than it would be for one parent to leave for another person of the same orientation (though I don’t think infidelity is acceptable in either scenario)

I know you won’t believe me about any of this because for some reason you seem to be highly upset about it. But if you do a little research on this you will learn a lot.


And

You mean it’s a get out jail free card … but not for partner who was duped

“Duped” only applies if the spouse knew they were gay from the get-go, and married the guy anyway in order to secure some kind of benefit.
Not saying that’s impossible in this day and age but that is definitely not what this thread is about.

So you’re saying it’s a choice as opposed to be born that way ??

???

Anonymous wrote:

Tell me how it would have helped this DH to know sooner, like when the wife was a SAHM. Yeah, I’m sure that would have turned out so well for him…

We will never know how things might have turned out if his wife was honest with him.

He might have found someone who loved him during the time his wife was working to leave him. He might have wanted, and had, more kids. I really hope the PP did not have her kids while she was plotting to take the money and run. However, we do not know that either.

Tell me, how has having someone you love lying to you helped you in your life?

+1. At a period when my husband felt like our marriage was over, he let me make several decisions involving my career and money which I never would have made had I known that and which put me in a much worse position for leaving That betrayal was at least as bad as the rest of it.

Tell me how it would have helped this DH to know sooner, like when the wife was a SAHM. Yeah, I’m sure that would have turned out so well for him…

We will never know how things might have turned out if his wife was honest with him.

He might have found someone who loved him during the time his wife was working to leave him. He might have wanted, and had, more kids. I really hope the PP did not have her kids while she was plotting to take the money and run. However, we do not know that either.

Tell me, how has having someone you love lying to you helped you in your life?

NP. I agree that everything you did was centered on what was best for you, maybe for your kids, with no thought to your DH. There is no way that once you figured out you were gay that you had a typical marital relationship with your DH. You hid things from him to benefit yourself instead of acting with respect and integrity.

+1000

Lol says the man who has zero idea what it’s like to be a woman living in the patriarchy.

Patriarchy? You mean like one that supported you as you lied to your husband (and children) every night you worked to build a better life for yourself? How long did you keep the lying up after you knew you were going to leave him? A year? Five years? Ten?

You acted like everything was fine, and that you still loved him, while you moved from (in your words) one job, to the next, to the next. Did you tell him that you loved him knowing he was a living student loan funding your career growth? What about his dreams? During the years you were job jumping, did he want more kids? Kids he could have had with an honest wife?

You gave your children the lesson that it is okay to lie to those who love you as long as it benefits you in the end.

The worst thing of all is that you are proud of it.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I suppose I don’t know what it’s like to tell a child you’re leaving because you fell in love with someone else, but my straight and gay friends who were in mixed orientation marriages say that their kids took it really well. When the issue is mixed orientation, there is no betrayal of the straight spouse. It is completely different. And it is great for kids to see their parents not suffer through a marriage just because our heteronormative culture demands it.

Your friends saying their kids "took it really well" is not proof in any sense of the word.

A man leaving his wife for another man or woman leaving her husband for another woman is a betrayal of the spouse that was left behind. You are using the "mixed orientation" term as a justification of the separation when just about any distinguishing factor (race, appearance) could be used in the same way.

Oh god. No. You are so wrong about many things but that last sentence especially.

Let’s say you are a straight woman. What if from the moment you were born, everyone told you you had to marry a woman. You had to have sex, have a romantic life, cuddle, etc., with a woman. You would never get butterflies, enjoy sex, etc. Can you see how awful that would be, even if you could build a good friendship and partnership? There would be something seriously missing in your life.

And that’s why this is a different scenario for the kids than it would be for one parent to leave for another person of the same orientation (though I don’t think infidelity is acceptable in either scenario)

I know you won’t believe me about any of this because for some reason you seem to be highly upset about it. But if you do a little research on this you will learn a lot.


And

You mean it’s a get out jail free card … but not for partner who was duped

“Duped” only applies if the spouse knew they were gay from the get-go, and married the guy anyway in order to secure some kind of benefit.
Not saying that’s impossible in this day and age but that is definitely not what this thread is about.

So you’re saying it’s a choice as opposed to be born that way ??

I think that it's now societally more acceptable right now, if you are in an outwardly hetero marriage, leave your DH for a woman. Much of American society right now is sending a lot of messages that LGBTQ relationships are acceptable and beyond that, the message is that they're praiseworthy as examples of being true to oneself. Whether one agrees with that or not, that's a lot of the messaging right now, everywhere from fiction to TV and movies to flags outside businesses. It's a time when the messaging might be encouraging women who realized they weren't ever very attracted to their husbands to go ahead and realize that lack of attraction as actually being attraction to women. It's more acceptable to do this now that if these same women OP knows had come out and left DHs, say, 20-30 years ago. Women in their positions back then might have been just as much attracted to women, but far less able to see a way forward in a divorce, child custody, finances, social standing, etc., than OP's friends who are ending these marriages now.