Anonymous wrote:Where are the fathers in all these situations? Or did they have the same disorders, passed them to the kids and left town?

Why do you ask about fathers specifically?

Where are the fathers in all these situations? Or did they have the same disorders, passed them to the kids and left town?

Anonymous wrote:Once a kid is 21, you can’t enforce treatment, medication or employment or chores. We see this scenario on DCUM with posters whose sibling is still living with the parents and aren’t taking care of the parents. Failure to launch, entitled freeloader or mental illness? It’s a fine line.

Actually, it's 18, not 21. But, in reality, you can't even always force these things before that. For those with money, it's an easier road because you have options such as residential treatment, available to you and your child.

As to the question about kicking out an adult child with depression, it's not so easy to know the answer to that. I have a young adult child with depression and a host of other mental health disorders, so I live this every single day of my life. I have prioritized my child over friends, family and virtually everything else in my life except my job and that's because my job helps pay for the treatment and without my job, we couldn't afford the treatment. Everyone in our household has suffered.

I can't imagine that at any point I will give up on helping him move into a fully productive life (and we are making progress). But, on the other hand, there are many nights when I slept with furniture pushed against my bedroom door and a ladder hanging out my bedroom window. He wasn't an adult then so kicking him out wasn't an option. Had it been, I might have. So, I guess for me, I could get to that point. But, it wouldn't be over chores.

As for working and financially contributing, I could care less. But, I don't give any of my kids who are capable of working any money or access to vehicles. So, I haven't had the experience of my kids, including the one who has the serious mental health issues, refusing to work. And, I take the stance that I do because some of the most important things to success is routine, having someplace to go, having responsibilities, etc. I certainly can't expect my mentally ill child to work while I give things to my healthy ones.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Kick out? No.

Develop a plan together? Yes.

A child needs a parent to be on their team. Regardless of age. Forever. It’s mom and child against the depression. Not mom against child.

This. This attitude is actually the solution to a lot of conflict between parents and children, and between spouses. It's something we say in our house all the time when a conflict arises -- we're on the same team. Always. We have the same goal. Always. We might disagree on approach and we have to figure that out. But we're never actually working in opposition.

That’s all great if you are neurotypical and mentally healthy.

General therapy and communication recs don’t work if someone’s not.

Not PP. Do you think that only healthy people benefit from therapy?

This is PP and I have the same question. I'd also note that even if you are dealing with issues that can't be fixed with communication and therapy alone, you still have to start from the place of "we're in this together." Because you are, whether you want to be or not.

+1

Anonymous wrote:It’s really tough. If you haven’t lived it you don’t really understand. There’s a fine line between enabling and caretaking. Sometimes moving someone to a new situation is better for everyone, including the depressed individual. That’s not abandoning per se but yes it may mean putting up some distance. Sacrificing a large portion of your life in the care of someone else’s illness is not necessarily honoring them or the preciousness of life itself.

+1

I think a lot of people writing on this thread have never lived this situation. I’ve seen this scenario in my family three times. Here were the outcomes:

- teenage son suicidal suffering BPD, parents got him treatment, support, researched treatments, locked away all sharp objects, never left him alone, etc. It took a heavy toll on his parents but they never let up and he is now stable. That took two years

- daughter in her late 50s living with parents due to depression and drug and alcohol addictions. Parents are elderly but won’t kick her out. She is verbally and emotionally abusive to her elderly parents and they live in an hostile and toxic household in their years when they are supposed to be taken care of by their kids. It’s very sad.

-daughter in her 30s moved in with mother. Daughter had suicidal ideations, BPD, alcohol addiction, multiple eating disorders, self harm. Living with her mother caused such a stressful environment that she couldn’t get better. She started suffering from seizures and we held an intervention and her mother said if she didn’t go to in patient treatment she couldn’t live with her anymore because she couldn’t just watch her slowly kill herself. That got her in to treatment and she is stable and living on her own

Just some real life scenarios that have taken a toll on many people.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Kick out? No.

Develop a plan together? Yes.

A child needs a parent to be on their team. Regardless of age. Forever. It’s mom and child against the depression. Not mom against child.

This. This attitude is actually the solution to a lot of conflict between parents and children, and between spouses. It's something we say in our house all the time when a conflict arises -- we're on the same team. Always. We have the same goal. Always. We might disagree on approach and we have to figure that out. But we're never actually working in opposition.

That’s all great if you are neurotypical and mentally healthy.

General therapy and communication recs don’t work if someone’s not.

Not PP. Do you think that only healthy people benefit from therapy?

This is PP and I have the same question. I'd also note that even if you are dealing with issues that can't be fixed with communication and therapy alone, you still have to start from the place of "we're in this together." Because you are, whether you want to be or not.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't see myself kicking out my own kid for depression and inability to function. But if I helped them seek treatment and they were resistant to it and the ways with which I'm helping, then that might be a different conversation. But I wouldn't put someone who's not doing well out to fend for themselves.

+1 I've personally known 2 families who made that decision with their sons. Both committed suicide. Very hard decision, but I wouldn't do it.

I think it's important to keep in mind that one can't draw a direct line between how these two families dealt with the situation, and the tragic outcome. Someone earlier suggested a comparison to other serious diseases like cancer. There are people who--despite receiving the best cancer care and tons of family and community support--ultimately succumb to the disease. I think that is true for suicide as well. I just want to make sure that we are careful to not let the conversation here veer into blame.

What happened to the two men who PP wrote about was extremely tragic.

Social support is very important for people with depression, just like anyone. I don't want to blame the families--we don't know what was going on, and maybe the men were making their homes unsafe environments. But the comparison isn't completely accurate here because we don't know if those men had the bolded (mental health care instead).

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Kick out? No.

Develop a plan together? Yes.

A child needs a parent to be on their team. Regardless of age. Forever. It’s mom and child against the depression. Not mom against child.

This. This attitude is actually the solution to a lot of conflict between parents and children, and between spouses. It's something we say in our house all the time when a conflict arises -- we're on the same team. Always. We have the same goal. Always. We might disagree on approach and we have to figure that out. But we're never actually working in opposition.

That’s all great if you are neurotypical and mentally healthy.

General therapy and communication recs don’t work if someone’s not.

Not PP. Do you think that only healthy people benefit from therapy?

Anonymous wrote:Look at Japan

https://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-23182523

But wait a second….I thought failure to launch was the fault of moms who coddle boys, or didn’t breastfeed, or used daycare, or allowed more than 2 hours of screentime, or…..

Look at Japan

https://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-23182523

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't see myself kicking out my own kid for depression and inability to function. But if I helped them seek treatment and they were resistant to it and the ways with which I'm helping, then that might be a different conversation. But I wouldn't put someone who's not doing well out to fend for themselves.

+1 I've personally known 2 families who made that decision with their sons. Both committed suicide. Very hard decision, but I wouldn't do it.

I think it's important to keep in mind that one can't draw a direct line between how these two families dealt with the situation, and the tragic outcome. Someone earlier suggested a comparison to other serious diseases like cancer. There are people who--despite receiving the best cancer care and tons of family and community support--ultimately succumb to the disease. I think that is true for suicide as well. I just want to make sure that we are careful to not let the conversation here veer into blame.

PP here. I agree with you and did not mean to suggest blame at all. Along with anxiety, depressipn, and autism, we've had suicide in our extended family as well. I'm just trying to say that, as hard as it is for the family, I would not turn out an adult child with depression who can't function independently. To me, it's the same if we had an adult child with an intellectual disability or chronic disease. Life can be hard. Tough for parents.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't see myself kicking out my own kid for depression and inability to function. But if I helped them seek treatment and they were resistant to it and the ways with which I'm helping, then that might be a different conversation. But I wouldn't put someone who's not doing well out to fend for themselves.

+1 I've personally known 2 families who made that decision with their sons. Both committed suicide. Very hard decision, but I wouldn't do it.

I think it's important to keep in mind that one can't draw a direct line between how these two families dealt with the situation, and the tragic outcome. Someone earlier suggested a comparison to other serious diseases like cancer. There are people who--despite receiving the best cancer care and tons of family and community support--ultimately succumb to the disease. I think that is true for suicide as well. I just want to make sure that we are careful to not let the conversation here veer into blame.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Kick out? No.

Develop a plan together? Yes.

A child needs a parent to be on their team. Regardless of age. Forever. It’s mom and child against the depression. Not mom against child.

This. This attitude is actually the solution to a lot of conflict between parents and children, and between spouses. It's something we say in our house all the time when a conflict arises -- we're on the same team. Always. We have the same goal. Always. We might disagree on approach and we have to figure that out. But we're never actually working in opposition.

That’s all great if you are neurotypical and mentally healthy.

General therapy and communication recs don’t work if someone’s not.

Anonymous wrote:Kick out? No.

Develop a plan together? Yes.

A child needs a parent to be on their team. Regardless of age. Forever. It’s mom and child against the depression. Not mom against child.

This. This attitude is actually the solution to a lot of conflict between parents and children, and between spouses. It's something we say in our house all the time when a conflict arises -- we're on the same team. Always. We have the same goal. Always. We might disagree on approach and we have to figure that out. But we're never actually working in opposition.

Pay for a housekeeper and nurse yet never talk to them or give directions!

Done and done. Next!