Anonymous
07/16/2021 16:13
Subject: Re:Have APS math inventory results been sent out?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:APS doesn’t expect your kid to know something they haven’t been taught. But there is a benchmark for algebra readiness which the SMI advertises is 1030 and uothread someone said was 1090 within APS this year (I don’t know if that is true). The SMI is really just a readiness data point and isn’t used for grading. What APS expects students to know is the Virginia Standards of Learning for the specific course they are in.
That score though is for the end of 8th grade, and they're saying that 5th graders need to have reached the end of 8th grade score before they even start pre-algebra? 6th grade pre-algebra is where they teach 6-8th grade math, so if I understand you it's saying that they should actually have mastered 8th grade math before it's taught?
I'm a PP with a 5th grader whose score dropped from January to June but still is in the Advanced level for 6th EOY and Proficient for 7th EOY. In January was Advanced for 6th and 7th EOY and Proficient for 8th EOY. I don't want my rising 6th grader to be totally stressed out next year, but also don't want DC bored to tears in GenEd while teachers continue to focus on bringing back up to grade level those who are still behind due to the pandemic which is what happened this year.
I think math is the one subject that is differentiated decently well, but if your child is bored definitely ask for more challenging work for him. I think there will still be enough more advanced kids for your teacher to make a group of them that your son can be a part of, even with the pandemic.
Anonymous
07/16/2021 16:10
Subject: Re:Have APS math inventory results been sent out?
Anonymous wrote:APS doesn’t expect your kid to know something they haven’t been taught. But there is a benchmark for algebra readiness which the SMI advertises is 1030 and uothread someone said was 1090 within APS this year (I don’t know if that is true). The SMI is really just a readiness data point and isn’t used for grading. What APS expects students to know is the Virginia Standards of Learning for the specific course they are in.
That score though is for the end of 8th grade, and they're saying that 5th graders need to have reached the end of 8th grade score before they even start pre-algebra? 6th grade pre-algebra is where they teach 6-8th grade math, so if I understand you it's saying that they should actually have mastered 8th grade math before it's taught?
I'm a PP with a 5th grader whose score dropped from January to June but still is in the Advanced level for 6th EOY and Proficient for 7th EOY. In January was Advanced for 6th and 7th EOY and Proficient for 8th EOY. I don't want my rising 6th grader to be totally stressed out next year, but also don't want DC bored to tears in GenEd while teachers continue to focus on bringing back up to grade level those who are still behind due to the pandemic which is what happened this year.
Anonymous
07/16/2021 15:27
Subject: Re:Have APS math inventory results been sent out?
APS doesn’t expect your kid to know something they haven’t been taught. But there is a benchmark for algebra readiness which the SMI advertises is 1030 and uothread someone said was 1090 within APS this year (I don’t know if that is true). The SMI is really just a readiness data point and isn’t used for grading. What APS expects students to know is the Virginia Standards of Learning for the specific course they are in.
Anonymous
07/16/2021 14:12
Subject: Re:Have APS math inventory results been sent out?
Anonymous wrote:Well, the MI is not given to 5th graders until mid year and end of year so there’s not a wealth of previous data. Regarding PEMDAS, I believe it’s a 5th grade skill. I teach a lower grade and we piloted the MI this year at our school but did not share results with parents. It was just an example that even smart students can’t know something of they’ve never seen it or been taught how to do it. It’s given much more regularly in middle school. It’s just one data point. Your kid didn’t regress they have just hit the limit of what they currently know.
So APS expects kids to know up to 8th grade material without actually ever teaching it in order to be placed in the only advanced course they now offer in MS? Isn’t that what a score over 1000 is equivalent to, end-of-year proficiency for the avg 8th grader? I’m just trying to understand and my kid isn’t the one whose score dropped, but am PP who would be interested to know how the MS math placement reflects whose families are doing outside supplementation rather than revealing kids who are just smart and/or even gifted in math.
Anonymous
07/15/2021 21:29
Subject: Re:Have APS math inventory results been sent out?
Well, the MI is not given to 5th graders until mid year and end of year so there’s not a wealth of previous data. Regarding PEMDAS, I believe it’s a 5th grade skill. I teach a lower grade and we piloted the MI this year at our school but did not share results with parents. It was just an example that even smart students can’t know something of they’ve never seen it or been taught how to do it. It’s given much more regularly in middle school. It’s just one data point. Your kid didn’t regress they have just hit the limit of what they currently know.
Anonymous
07/15/2021 20:21
Subject: Re:Have APS math inventory results been sent out?
Thank you for the explanation. In some ways for those children whose scores dropped it highlights that the schools weren't "meeting them where they are", as APS claims to.
Anonymous
07/15/2021 20:17
Subject: Re:Have APS math inventory results been sent out?
Anonymous wrote:The scores are normed for grade level and administration time (beginning, midyear, end). So using the above example, the expectation is that a student will improve their scores within the grade level proficiency range from beginning to end. The scores are normed based upon that growth. So if your student scored for example in the 8th grade proficiency range in 6th grade at the start of the year and got a 1000, then took the test at the end of the year and performed exactly the same, their score would go slightly down because students in the ranges are expected to go up between administrations. But to really score better, you have to improve your proficiency. A student who was already performing well above the grade level range is only going to become lore proficient if they are taught at the higher level skills they didn’t have.
I would look more at the overall, if they are well above grade level they will generally be moving to algebra (algebra readiness per the test is 1030). Again, once APS starts your child in algebra they no longer take the MI. So most APS students aren’t scoring 1200 because by that level of proficiency they have already begun algebra, except in what I’d guess is a very small number of kids who are highly gifted mathematically. This is my experience at the upper elementary level with the MI as a teacher. A student can be really good at math but if they haven’t been taught, for example, PEMDAS, they won’t get many questions correct requiring knowledge of it except by chance.
If that’s the case, are all ES teaching PEMDAS by 5th grade? I’d be really interested to see a breakdown of the MI scores by elementary school. I suspect there are fewer math geniuses than there are kids whose parents can afford tutors and outside math classes. I’d be curious to know, for instance, how many 5th graders at Carlin Springs scored over 1000 vs. how many at Tuckahoe.
Anonymous
07/15/2021 17:52
Subject: Re:Have APS math inventory results been sent out?
The scores are normed for grade level and administration time (beginning, midyear, end). So using the above example, the expectation is that a student will improve their scores within the grade level proficiency range from beginning to end. The scores are normed based upon that growth. So if your student scored for example in the 8th grade proficiency range in 6th grade at the start of the year and got a 1000, then took the test at the end of the year and performed exactly the same, their score would go slightly down because students in the ranges are expected to go up between administrations. But to really score better, you have to improve your proficiency. A student who was already performing well above the grade level range is only going to become lore proficient if they are taught at the higher level skills they didn’t have.
I would look more at the overall, if they are well above grade level they will generally be moving to algebra (algebra readiness per the test is 1030). Again, once APS starts your child in algebra they no longer take the MI. So most APS students aren’t scoring 1200 because by that level of proficiency they have already begun algebra, except in what I’d guess is a very small number of kids who are highly gifted mathematically. This is my experience at the upper elementary level with the MI as a teacher. A student can be really good at math but if they haven’t been taught, for example, PEMDAS, they won’t get many questions correct requiring knowledge of it except by chance.
I would look more at the overall, if they are well above grade level they will generally be moving to algebra (algebra readiness per the test is 1030). Again, once APS starts your child in algebra they no longer take the MI. So most APS students aren’t scoring 1200 because by that level of proficiency they have already begun algebra, except in what I’d guess is a very small number of kids who are highly gifted mathematically. This is my experience at the upper elementary level with the MI as a teacher. A student can be really good at math but if they haven’t been taught, for example, PEMDAS, they won’t get many questions correct requiring knowledge of it except by chance.
Anonymous
07/15/2021 17:08
Subject: Re:Have APS math inventory results been sent out?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Child's MI score was just posted. End of year score is lower than Mid year but no explanation about what these scores mean and why score would have dropped. Any insights on what would cause that? Math teacher didn't respond to emails during the school year, so I won't even bother reaching out since I can't imagine she would respond in July.
My kid scored lower end of year than start of the year. WTF?
Was it already pretty high? I would think if it’s high you’re going to get diminishing returns with more learning.
+1
I'm the original PP and that's what I'm trying to figure out. Shouldn't it continue to go up from January to May as they learn more? Child had roughly a 1,000 in January but low 900s in May.
Maybe somebody knows more about this than I do, but I wouldn’t be surprised if they didn’t actually teach them the math that they would need to get such a high score. I don’t have the numbers in front of me but if your child is in, say, 6th and scores in the 900s, that’s an eighth grade math level and it would make sense that the 6th grade curriculum wouldn’t cover it. The score could have gone down because of things like little mistakes or unluckier guesses.
Anonymous
07/15/2021 16:43
Subject: Re:Have APS math inventory results been sent out?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Child's MI score was just posted. End of year score is lower than Mid year but no explanation about what these scores mean and why score would have dropped. Any insights on what would cause that? Math teacher didn't respond to emails during the school year, so I won't even bother reaching out since I can't imagine she would respond in July.
My kid scored lower end of year than start of the year. WTF?
Was it already pretty high? I would think if it’s high you’re going to get diminishing returns with more learning.
+1
I'm the original PP and that's what I'm trying to figure out. Shouldn't it continue to go up from January to May as they learn more? Child had roughly a 1,000 in January but low 900s in May.
I'm the other PP and my kid was in the 1000s at the beginning & end and I think in the 900s at the end.
Anonymous
07/15/2021 16:35
Subject: Re:Have APS math inventory results been sent out?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Child's MI score was just posted. End of year score is lower than Mid year but no explanation about what these scores mean and why score would have dropped. Any insights on what would cause that? Math teacher didn't respond to emails during the school year, so I won't even bother reaching out since I can't imagine she would respond in July.
My kid scored lower end of year than start of the year. WTF?
Was it already pretty high? I would think if it’s high you’re going to get diminishing returns with more learning.
+1
I'm the original PP and that's what I'm trying to figure out. Shouldn't it continue to go up from January to May as they learn more? Child had roughly a 1,000 in January but low 900s in May.
Anonymous
07/15/2021 16:33
Subject: Re:Have APS math inventory results been sent out?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Child's MI score was just posted. End of year score is lower than Mid year but no explanation about what these scores mean and why score would have dropped. Any insights on what would cause that? Math teacher didn't respond to emails during the school year, so I won't even bother reaching out since I can't imagine she would respond in July.
My kid scored lower end of year than start of the year. WTF?
Was it already pretty high? I would think if it’s high you’re going to get diminishing returns with more learning.
+1
Anonymous
07/15/2021 16:28
Subject: Re:Have APS math inventory results been sent out?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Child's MI score was just posted. End of year score is lower than Mid year but no explanation about what these scores mean and why score would have dropped. Any insights on what would cause that? Math teacher didn't respond to emails during the school year, so I won't even bother reaching out since I can't imagine she would respond in July.
My kid scored lower end of year than start of the year. WTF?
Was it already pretty high? I would think if it’s high you’re going to get diminishing returns with more learning.
Anonymous
07/15/2021 16:19
Subject: Re:Have APS math inventory results been sent out?
Anonymous wrote:Child's MI score was just posted. End of year score is lower than Mid year but no explanation about what these scores mean and why score would have dropped. Any insights on what would cause that? Math teacher didn't respond to emails during the school year, so I won't even bother reaching out since I can't imagine she would respond in July.
My kid scored lower end of year than start of the year. WTF?
Anonymous
07/15/2021 15:32
Subject: Re:Have APS math inventory results been sent out?
The MI score range goes into the 1500s. Almost no one in APS scores that high… usually up to 1100ish is the max because once you start algebra you don’t take the test any more. So most kids stop taking the MI in 6th or 7th grade.