Anonymous
Post 05/27/2021 16:26     Subject: Re:"Kids are resilient!"
I loathe “kids are resilient”. It’s a crappy way to minimize parents or societies selfish choices.
Anonymous
Post 05/27/2021 16:24     Subject: Re:"Kids are resilient!"
Anonymous wrote:What seems to be happen between these two camps is the different definition of "resilient"

The "never say this!" camp seems to use the formal APA definition (as posted above) regarding the ability to bounce back from adversity/trauma/tragedy

The "totally say it!" camp seems to use the more colloquial definition, that children are innately adaptable, flexible, mailable, and can recover from quite a lot of they are provided the proper love and care.

I am in the "totally say it" camp and i come from a lot of "trauma" (parental death as a young child, faced physical abuse, emotional neglect, etc). Personally, I find it to be more optimistic to focus on the naturally resilient nature humans have, rather than to act as if this trauma will define them forever. But resilience is something that needs to be taught and modeled, therapy is important. In times of stress, look to those helping. Humans are beautiful and naturally resilient.

But I would never say this to a child directly, that is invalidating to their emotions ... but when a neurotic mom is hemming and hawing to me about something like BLW vs purees, or a scraped knee, or overly concerned about developmental milestones - I respond with "kids are resilient" to (a) shut down my participation in what I think is needless worrying, and (b) to reassure the parent that this will not "break" your child. There is a lot of pressure to be the "perfect parent" but you can't protect them from all of life's hardships.

If a close friend (not an acquaintance) was talking to me about true trauma their child is dealing with (divorce, death, etc) then I would NEVER respond to a friend with something so flippant.


Good summary and I agree. I use the phrase when another mom is hand wringing about something inconsequential (“if visit DH’s family on Memorial Day, he will be half an hour late for his nap time”), would never do so—or presume to know—when it’s. Question of long-term resiliency from abuse or something traumatic.
Anonymous
Post 05/27/2021 16:24     Subject: Re:"Kids are resilient!"
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I am so glad to see so many hate this sentiment as much as I do! I think it’s so dismissive and hurtful to the child.

DH died when our son was 3. I can’t tell you how many people said he’d be fine because kids are resilient. He just lost his father forever!! Can we not expect him to bounce back immediately and actually let him feel his grief?!

No 3 yr old should have to be resilient.


And, btw, 15 years later, DS is a great kid but his dad’s death didn’t make him resilient at all. It took therapy and a lot of support to get him over the painful “abandonment” and distrust.


I’m so sorry for your, and your sons, loss.

When children are provided the appropriate support (sounds like you did a great job getting your son what he needed!) they can be, and often are, very resilient.



Not from the loss, no. Resilience comes from security and calm - not trauma. The death of a parent or caregiver the child trusts and depends upon is terrible for children.
Anonymous
Post 05/27/2021 15:08     Subject: "Kids are resilient!"
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:“Resilient” = bouncing back from typical disappointments, changes, etc. Moving to a new school and making new friends. Losing their lovey and picking a new one. It’s not the same as getting through abuse/neglect without issue.

I used it in regards to wearing masks this year. Not one kid at my son’s private school had any issues with masks after the first week. They adapted and moved on.


This


You’re confusing resilient with adaptable


Ok so then explain when and how someone can be resilient.


DP. In my opinion they are just different scales. Adaptable is like masks or a child who loses a limb. Children are very adaptable in that they basically accept changes to their environment and move on. Putting on masks isn't traumatic, its change to their physical environment that they just roll with.

Being ripped out of school and away from their peers for a year while under the fearful cloud of a pandemic, their family's struggling finances, the sickness or death of family members, this is traumatic and stressful. Resiliency is a child's ability to feel that stress and keep going. Keep getting up in the morning, eating breakfast, going to their classes, loving their family, listening to music under the specter of that stress, and eventually, resuming their lives and incorporating it into their lived experience and have it not create lifelong struggles, or not allow the effects to control the course their lives take.

A mask is a neutral thing, it has emotional weight because of external circumstances. So like losing a limb, the prosthetic is just a thing, and your body and mind may or may not easily adapt to using it. Whatever caused you to lose the limb is a trauma that you have to deal with, and may leak into things like how you learn how to use the prosthetic, but the trauma and the physical objects you are adjusting to are different things.
Anonymous
Post 05/27/2021 14:55     Subject: "Kids are resilient!"
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:“Resilient” = bouncing back from typical disappointments, changes, etc. Moving to a new school and making new friends. Losing their lovey and picking a new one. It’s not the same as getting through abuse/neglect without issue.

I used it in regards to wearing masks this year. Not one kid at my son’s private school had any issues with masks after the first week. They adapted and moved on.


This


You’re confusing resilient with adaptable


Ok so then explain when and how someone can be resilient.
Anonymous
Post 05/27/2021 14:42     Subject: Re:"Kids are resilient!"
I HATE this phrase. It's so dismissive and invalidating, and frankly seems to assign blame where there is none. One of my children is very resilient. He can handle just about anything that is thrown his way and does well and every situation and context he has found himself in. One of my children is not particularly resilient - it's just the way he is. He has some mental health issues that make changes and new situations very frightening and overwhelming. We (of course) are doing everything we can to help him manage - but he is not innately a wildflower like his brother. He is an orchid.
Anonymous
Post 05/27/2021 12:43     Subject: Re:"Kids are resilient!"
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Parents use that line to justify bad choices that they know hurt their child. That’s the only time I’ve ever heard it used.

It’s the parents job to be resilient - young kids shouldn’t be forced to be.


I disagree. Never in the history of humankind, there was so much pressure on the parents (and especially mothers) to be perfect and to cater to our children, while of course maintaining a successful career, a perfect home, and a great social circle. Mothers are expected to breastfeed (even if it kills them), come up with ridiculous amounts of stimulation for their children, be super involved in their kids' lives and schooling, etc. And we are not allowed to use any crutches: no bouncers, no screens, no drop off playdates, no riding the bus to get to the practice (pretty much ever). So I think that people use this phrase to rebel against the constant mom shaming. Here, I don't mean the serious abuse that OP mentions but:
- Kids can be formula-fed. They are resilient.
- Kids can be bored for a while. They are resilient.
- Kids can eat purees or do BLW. Kids are resilient.
- Kids can eat something quick on the go, rather than your perfectly thought-through organic lunch that you prepared. They are resilient.

As your kids grow, you need to teach them resilience. Yes, I am resilient as a parent, but my parents also gave me space to become resilient. If I did not turn in my homework, I got an F. No, my mom did not call the teacher to give her all the excuses for me. I dealt with an F. You need to give your kids space to fail and to make mistakes, rather than foreshadowing every single move and misstep. As long as you love them, feed them, and support them, your kids will be fine.


These are not examples of resiliency. Resiliency is process of adapting well in the face of adversity, trauma, tragedy, threats, or significant sources of stress—such as family and relationship problems, serious health problems, or workplace and financial stressors- per the APA.

Being formula fed vs breastfed is a decision not something the child has to overcome. If you dont turn in your homework and get an F thats natural consequence.



Right? LOLing at the idea that the choice between purees and BLW is the crucible for resilience.
Anonymous
Post 05/27/2021 12:39     Subject: "Kids are resilient!"
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:“Resilient” = bouncing back from typical disappointments, changes, etc. Moving to a new school and making new friends. Losing their lovey and picking a new one. It’s not the same as getting through abuse/neglect without issue.

I used it in regards to wearing masks this year. Not one kid at my son’s private school had any issues with masks after the first week. They adapted and moved on.


This


You’re confusing resilient with adaptable
Anonymous
Post 05/27/2021 12:37     Subject: "Kids are resilient!"
Anonymous wrote:Kids today are not resilient. We do not teach them that they can succeed despite emotional trauma, severe anxiety, and other obstacles. Entitlement is the starting point of many of our kids.



Giving a kid heartbreak and loss is what makes them less resilient and fearful. Proven fact.
Anonymous
Post 05/27/2021 11:56     Subject: Re:"Kids are resilient!"
What seems to be happen between these two camps is the different definition of "resilient"

The "never say this!" camp seems to use the formal APA definition (as posted above) regarding the ability to bounce back from adversity/trauma/tragedy

The "totally say it!" camp seems to use the more colloquial definition, that children are innately adaptable, flexible, mailable, and can recover from quite a lot of they are provided the proper love and care.

I am in the "totally say it" camp and i come from a lot of "trauma" (parental death as a young child, faced physical abuse, emotional neglect, etc). Personally, I find it to be more optimistic to focus on the naturally resilient nature humans have, rather than to act as if this trauma will define them forever. But resilience is something that needs to be taught and modeled, therapy is important. In times of stress, look to those helping. Humans are beautiful and naturally resilient.

But I would never say this to a child directly, that is invalidating to their emotions ... but when a neurotic mom is hemming and hawing to me about something like BLW vs purees, or a scraped knee, or overly concerned about developmental milestones - I respond with "kids are resilient" to (a) shut down my participation in what I think is needless worrying, and (b) to reassure the parent that this will not "break" your child. There is a lot of pressure to be the "perfect parent" but you can't protect them from all of life's hardships.

If a close friend (not an acquaintance) was talking to me about true trauma their child is dealing with (divorce, death, etc) then I would NEVER respond to a friend with something so flippant.
Anonymous
Post 05/27/2021 11:56     Subject: "Kids are resilient!"
Anonymous wrote:“Resilient” = bouncing back from typical disappointments, changes, etc. Moving to a new school and making new friends. Losing their lovey and picking a new one. It’s not the same as getting through abuse/neglect without issue.

I used it in regards to wearing masks this year. Not one kid at my son’s private school had any issues with masks after the first week. They adapted and moved on.


This
Anonymous
Post 05/27/2021 11:38     Subject: Re:"Kids are resilient!"
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Parents use that line to justify bad choices that they know hurt their child. That’s the only time I’ve ever heard it used.

It’s the parents job to be resilient - young kids shouldn’t be forced to be.


I disagree. Never in the history of humankind, there was so much pressure on the parents (and especially mothers) to be perfect and to cater to our children, while of course maintaining a successful career, a perfect home, and a great social circle. Mothers are expected to breastfeed (even if it kills them), come up with ridiculous amounts of stimulation for their children, be super involved in their kids' lives and schooling, etc. And we are not allowed to use any crutches: no bouncers, no screens, no drop off playdates, no riding the bus to get to the practice (pretty much ever). So I think that people use this phrase to rebel against the constant mom shaming. Here, I don't mean the serious abuse that OP mentions but:
- Kids can be formula-fed. They are resilient.
- Kids can be bored for a while. They are resilient.
- Kids can eat purees or do BLW. Kids are resilient.
- Kids can eat something quick on the go, rather than your perfectly thought-through organic lunch that you prepared. They are resilient.

As your kids grow, you need to teach them resilience. Yes, I am resilient as a parent, but my parents also gave me space to become resilient. If I did not turn in my homework, I got an F. No, my mom did not call the teacher to give her all the excuses for me. I dealt with an F. You need to give your kids space to fail and to make mistakes, rather than foreshadowing every single move and misstep. As long as you love them, feed them, and support them, your kids will be fine.


These are not examples of resiliency. Resiliency is process of adapting well in the face of adversity, trauma, tragedy, threats, or significant sources of stress—such as family and relationship problems, serious health problems, or workplace and financial stressors- per the APA.

Being formula fed vs breastfed is a decision not something the child has to overcome. If you dont turn in your homework and get an F thats natural consequence.

Anonymous
Post 05/27/2021 11:35     Subject: "Kids are resilient!"
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:OP I agree 100%. Parents who say that tend to be selfish humans who just want to do whatever they hell they want, and pretend their kids aren’t suffering as a result. My mom was like that - her life was a blast and she dragged me along everywhere with very little concern for my needs. I am broken in so many ways, and whenever I hear a parent say this now I just feel sorry for their kids.


+1.


Same Can we form a support group?


If you need a support group for this you need to work on your own resilience. And I know you are being funny, and I kind of am too, but seriously. This is like the people who can't handle people asking them what they're going to name their kid in utero or something. People say stuff, some of it is annoying, some of it isn't, but if something like this is really bothering you than like, that makes me think you're a little thin skinned.

And for the record if someone said this TO my kid I would want to backhand them, but as another pp said, this is frequently just small talk in already awkward conversations.
Anonymous
Post 05/27/2021 11:31     Subject: "Kids are resilient!"
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:OP I agree 100%. Parents who say that tend to be selfish humans who just want to do whatever they hell they want, and pretend their kids aren’t suffering as a result. My mom was like that - her life was a blast and she dragged me along everywhere with very little concern for my needs. I am broken in so many ways, and whenever I hear a parent say this now I just feel sorry for their kids.


+1.


Same Can we form a support group?
Anonymous
Post 05/27/2021 10:48     Subject: Re:"Kids are resilient!"
Anonymous wrote:I am so glad to see so many hate this sentiment as much as I do! I think it’s so dismissive and hurtful to the child.

DH died when our son was 3. I can’t tell you how many people said he’d be fine because kids are resilient. He just lost his father forever!! Can we not expect him to bounce back immediately and actually let him feel his grief?!

No 3 yr old should have to be resilient.


And, btw, 15 years later, DS is a great kid but his dad’s death didn’t make him resilient at all. It took therapy and a lot of support to get him over the painful “abandonment” and distrust.


I’m so sorry for your, and your sons, loss.

When children are provided the appropriate support (sounds like you did a great job getting your son what he needed!) they can be, and often are, very resilient.