Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hold on - there are no textbooks in APS??? My DS is starting K and we are keeping him at current preschool for the K year because of small class and were then planning to move to an APS ES school. I'm going to date myself here, but kids don't have workbooks like "Wordly Wise," etc or books for social studies reading or math problems? What do they have? I have a PhD in the humanities and my main way of learning was reading independently - hate group work etc. Is that all there is in APS? Tell me more!

My impression as a parent is there isn't much of a curriculum in APS elementary. It's what caused so much chaos in distance learning last spring. There are standards of learning but each teacher is expected to reinvent the wheel and develop their own ways to meet the standards. It seems so exhausting for teachers and so wasteful of their time.

THIS. ~(Parent with child who completed K and 1st at an APS Immersion school before moving out of state to an open public school last year)

Figuring out what your child is learning is extremely difficult in APS. You have to piece it together from worksheets unless your teacher is a great communicator (by email or blog). Getting a teacher's attention is tough when they have 55 students (Immersion students have 2 teachers half-day daily/hence each teacher has double the students over-all). I constantly told myself "At least they're learning Spanish," because I could not figure out that they were actively doing spelling/phonics in English or learning any social studies to speak of. Science and math seemed to be decent despite no textbooks. There's an obsession with "reading by the end of K" but no clear method to get there. It seems every teacher has to do their own thing.

At our new out of state public, 2nd grader does "Singapore Math" in a book, and has more clear curriculum "units," than APS, particularly in Social Studies where they follow a curriculum similar to what I remember growing up (Learn about your community, local government and then go bigger.) To be fair we still don't have any other textbooks at the new school either, but class sizes are smaller and teaching seems to be more on par with a private. (To make a direct comparison, APS is supposedly the #1 public in VA, and our new public is #4 in a different state, but much smaller in size, which helps the students get much more attention). Our child's class at the new public has 18 students. My child was identified as needing an IEP for speech/language this year (I'm certain this would have been missed during a remote year of learning at an Immersion school- so grateful it was caught now).

I do miss the Spanish Immersion a lot, but literally nothing else. Since APS offers both AP and IB in high school, I'm guessing their high school education level is comparable with any very good high schools, but I was not impressed with their elementary education, and middle school is always tough, let alone in an over-crowded school. APS's focus on "woke" political culture above all else was also grating, especially so during a pandemic.

I get the sense from reading these boards that Fairfax has pretty much the same issues as APS, but that's just my speculation. I know ACPS is a mess for various reasons and from friends' experiences. If we had to stay in Northern Virginia we would have switched to a Lutheran or Catholic school for the education/size/values.

My advice to anyone in Northern Virginia would be "don't pay North Arlington house prices for APS." Move to Alexandria or Falls Church if you're still trying to stay close to DC (because home prices MAY be slightly less insane) and go private. Or be prepared to supplement heavily at home.

AMEN!

APS has done away with FLES, while Catholic schools in our area are still going strong in Spanish. This is one disadvantage to students. Along with watered down math and no thorough instruction in writing and grammar, I see very little reason to stay on in APS.

Kid’s performance in math has drastically improved thanks to private school. We never felt that APS was clicking for us. Some good teachers, to be sure, but happy to have switched.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hold on - there are no textbooks in APS??? My DS is starting K and we are keeping him at current preschool for the K year because of small class and were then planning to move to an APS ES school. I'm going to date myself here, but kids don't have workbooks like "Wordly Wise," etc or books for social studies reading or math problems? What do they have? I have a PhD in the humanities and my main way of learning was reading independently - hate group work etc. Is that all there is in APS? Tell me more!

My impression as a parent is there isn't much of a curriculum in APS elementary. It's what caused so much chaos in distance learning last spring. There are standards of learning but each teacher is expected to reinvent the wheel and develop their own ways to meet the standards. It seems so exhausting for teachers and so wasteful of their time.

THIS. ~(Parent with child who completed K and 1st at an APS Immersion school before moving out of state to an open public school last year)

Figuring out what your child is learning is extremely difficult in APS. You have to piece it together from worksheets unless your teacher is a great communicator (by email or blog). Getting a teacher's attention is tough when they have 55 students (Immersion students have 2 teachers half-day daily/hence each teacher has double the students over-all). I constantly told myself "At least they're learning Spanish," because I could not figure out that they were actively doing spelling/phonics in English or learning any social studies to speak of. Science and math seemed to be decent despite no textbooks. There's an obsession with "reading by the end of K" but no clear method to get there. It seems every teacher has to do their own thing.

At our new out of state public, 2nd grader does "Singapore Math" in a book, and has more clear curriculum "units," than APS, particularly in Social Studies where they follow a curriculum similar to what I remember growing up (Learn about your community, local government and then go bigger.) To be fair we still don't have any other textbooks at the new school either, but class sizes are smaller and teaching seems to be more on par with a private. (To make a direct comparison, APS is supposedly the #1 public in VA, and our new public is #4 in a different state, but much smaller in size, which helps the students get much more attention). Our child's class at the new public has 18 students. My child was identified as needing an IEP for speech/language this year (I'm certain this would have been missed during a remote year of learning at an Immersion school- so grateful it was caught now).

I do miss the Spanish Immersion a lot, but literally nothing else. Since APS offers both AP and IB in high school, I'm guessing their high school education level is comparable with any very good high schools, but I was not impressed with their elementary education, and middle school is always tough, let alone in an over-crowded school. APS's focus on "woke" political culture above all else was also grating, especially so during a pandemic.

I get the sense from reading these boards that Fairfax has pretty much the same issues as APS, but that's just my speculation. I know ACPS is a mess for various reasons and from friends' experiences. If we had to stay in Northern Virginia we would have switched to a Lutheran or Catholic school for the education/size/values.

My advice to anyone in Northern Virginia would be "don't pay North Arlington house prices for APS." Move to Alexandria or Falls Church if you're still trying to stay close to DC (because home prices MAY be slightly less insane) and go private. Or be prepared to supplement heavily at home.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What I find hardest is helping my 3rd and6th grader with math. Most of the instruction now is having them watch youtube videos to explain a concept, I'm sure the teacher is there explaining examples after, but it's in this wierd way of solving that we have no idea of why they are doing it that way when there's a more standardized way of solving a problem back when we solved it. I'd like to understand these new methods as I can't even help because they're sometimes asked to solve something in a very specific "method" Then he gets 1/2 of the practice questions wrong and we spend an hour trying to teach them how to solve it how we learned it and they would get the right answers.

Also language has been awful. My 6th grader has only had 1 writing assignment all year that was more than 1.5 typed pages. Rest were short writing assignments. My younger student has more work than my older. My older's handwriting has deteriorated so much, it's like he's writing worst than when he was a 1st grader.

Our school's PTA puts on a "how we teach math" presentation to help parents.

That's great....for the parents at your one school who are able to attend the one presentation by the PTA. The fact that your PTA recognized a need for this should be a red flag to APS teachers and administrators that perhaps something in the APS approach is missing and that they should address it. And not rely on a PTA to maybe do it for them.

Anonymous wrote:I have kids who have been in APS for 7 and 9 years. They are learning just fine. Without textbooks. The obsession with textbooks from the elementary parents on this thread is bizarre. Hardly worth private school tuition and hardly the lynchpin of education. Save yourself tuition money and buy a set of textbooks for your kids if it’s so important to you! Very weird point of emphasis.

It shouldn't be the responsibility of the parent to provide separate instruction with a textbook to help their child learn. The school should be providing proper instruction and - especially in math - most students learn better and master the concepts better with paper and pencil. Even if it isn't an actual workbook or textbook, paper and pencil is more effective and often essential for students over digital learning of math. It's not an obsession by parents on here. It's a legitimate point.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hold on - there are no textbooks in APS??? My DS is starting K and we are keeping him at current preschool for the K year because of small class and were then planning to move to an APS ES school. I'm going to date myself here, but kids don't have workbooks like "Wordly Wise," etc or books for social studies reading or math problems? What do they have? I have a PhD in the humanities and my main way of learning was reading independently - hate group work etc. Is that all there is in APS? Tell me more!

My impression as a parent is there isn't much of a curriculum in APS elementary. It's what caused so much chaos in distance learning last spring. There are standards of learning but each teacher is expected to reinvent the wheel and develop their own ways to meet the standards. It seems so exhausting for teachers and so wasteful of their time.

THIS.
-teacher

But then teachers complain if they get handed a curriculum bc it limits their creativity and they like to create their own resources
Except those “resources” are usually pretty bad but they are cute

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hold on - there are no textbooks in APS??? My DS is starting K and we are keeping him at current preschool for the K year because of small class and were then planning to move to an APS ES school. I'm going to date myself here, but kids don't have workbooks like "Wordly Wise," etc or books for social studies reading or math problems? What do they have? I have a PhD in the humanities and my main way of learning was reading independently - hate group work etc. Is that all there is in APS? Tell me more!

My impression as a parent is there isn't much of a curriculum in APS elementary. It's what caused so much chaos in distance learning last spring. There are standards of learning but each teacher is expected to reinvent the wheel and develop their own ways to meet the standards. It seems so exhausting for teachers and so wasteful of their time.

THIS.
-teacher

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Textbooks or no textbooks, if you eliminate immigrants, poor people, and kids with learning disabilities from the classroom (and make the class size smaller!), you’re going to get different outcomes.

No one is struggling to learn English. No one is struggling to keep up.

Why are you picking on immigrants, poor people and kids with learning disabilities? There are plenty of non-immigrants (following your loose term - BTW, worthwhile to reflect on your own roots, affluent people and kids with no learning disabilities who struggle to read and write proper English, struggle to do math, and struggle to follow instructions in class.

I’m not picking on anyone, but stating facts.

Group 1:
30 students in a class
2 don’t speak English, and the teacher must accommodate this
6 come from low income families, where the parents weren’t able to read to their kids every day
1 has significant learning disabilities and the teacher must accommodate this
1 has significant behavioral issues, causing major disruptions at least once a week

Group 2:
15 students in a class
Everyone speaks English fluently
Everyone comes from a family that read to them daily, as well as enrolling them in enrichment activities throughout the year
No learning disabilities
No major behavioral concerns

Honestly, which group is going to get a better academic education? You’re kidding yourself if you don’t say Group 2.

And of course their are plenty of non-immigrants that don’t speak English well, have learning disabilities, etc. But the fact is, you won’t find any of these people in top-tier private schools. Anyone with issues would be counseled out by middle or high school.

Now, which group produces more compassionate non-*ssholes, well, that’s another discussion entirely.

Just trying to answer OP’s question about what the differences are.

*there… stupid autoINcorrect

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Textbooks or no textbooks, if you eliminate immigrants, poor people, and kids with learning disabilities from the classroom (and make the class size smaller!), you’re going to get different outcomes.

No one is struggling to learn English. No one is struggling to keep up.

Why are you picking on immigrants, poor people and kids with learning disabilities? There are plenty of non-immigrants (following your loose term - BTW, worthwhile to reflect on your own roots, affluent people and kids with no learning disabilities who struggle to read and write proper English, struggle to do math, and struggle to follow instructions in class.

I’m not picking on anyone, but stating facts.

Group 1:
30 students in a class
2 don’t speak English, and the teacher must accommodate this
6 come from low income families, where the parents weren’t able to read to their kids every day
1 has significant learning disabilities and the teacher must accommodate this
1 has significant behavioral issues, causing major disruptions at least once a week

Group 2:
15 students in a class
Everyone speaks English fluently
Everyone comes from a family that read to them daily, as well as enrolling them in enrichment activities throughout the year
No learning disabilities
No major behavioral concerns

Honestly, which group is going to get a better academic education? You’re kidding yourself if you don’t say Group 2.

And of course their are plenty of non-immigrants that don’t speak English well, have learning disabilities, etc. But the fact is, you won’t find any of these people in top-tier private schools. Anyone with issues would be counseled out by middle or high school.

Now, which group produces more compassionate non-*ssholes, well, that’s another discussion entirely.

Just trying to answer OP’s question about what the differences are.

Anonymous wrote:What I find hardest is helping my 3rd and6th grader with math. Most of the instruction now is having them watch youtube videos to explain a concept, I'm sure the teacher is there explaining examples after, but it's in this wierd way of solving that we have no idea of why they are doing it that way when there's a more standardized way of solving a problem back when we solved it. I'd like to understand these new methods as I can't even help because they're sometimes asked to solve something in a very specific "method" Then he gets 1/2 of the practice questions wrong and we spend an hour trying to teach them how to solve it how we learned it and they would get the right answers.

Also language has been awful. My 6th grader has only had 1 writing assignment all year that was more than 1.5 typed pages. Rest were short writing assignments. My younger student has more work than my older. My older's handwriting has deteriorated so much, it's like he's writing worst than when he was a 1st grader.

Our school's PTA puts on a "how we teach math" presentation to help parents.

Are people trying to get people to come back? Why?

They sound happy they left, and from what they've said, I'm happy they left, too.

Except for the kids with learning disabilities who weren't getting the support they needed. I'm not happy that APS isn't better at helping those kids.

Anonymous wrote:Textbooks or no textbooks, if you eliminate immigrants, poor people, and kids with learning disabilities from the classroom (and make the class size smaller!), you’re going to get different outcomes.

No one is struggling to learn English. No one is struggling to keep up.

Why are you picking on immigrants, poor people and kids with learning disabilities? There are plenty of non-immigrants (following your loose term - BTW, worthwhile to reflect on your own roots, affluent people and kids with no learning disabilities who struggle to read and write proper English, struggle to do math, and struggle to follow instructions in class.

Anonymous wrote:Textbooks or no textbooks, if you eliminate immigrants, poor people, and kids with learning disabilities from the classroom (and make the class size smaller!), you’re going to get different outcomes.

No one is struggling to learn English. No one is struggling to keep up.

Uhhh not sure what you are advocating for here

Textbooks or no textbooks, if you eliminate immigrants, poor people, and kids with learning disabilities from the classroom (and make the class size smaller!), you’re going to get different outcomes.

No one is struggling to learn English. No one is struggling to keep up.