Anonymous wrote:We consider ourselves lower upper middle class.
375 HHI
3 M in savings
1 kid

I've used that term; I love it.

We consider ourselves lower upper middle class.
375 HHI
3 M in savings
1 kid

HHI: $425K
NW: $4M
4
Age:48/46

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:$1mm
Not sure offhand
5
Age: 38

This is a cultural, not economic, designation. I'm aware of where our income falls. But I think most families with working professional parents consider themselves UMC culturally.

You're labor, not bourgeoisie, but you're still rich.

I don't understand the distinction you're drawing between labor and bourgeoisie. Also, historically, bourgeoisie is exactly what we are (though I do not aspire to the traditional provincialism and small mindedness associated with the term!). It distinguished the merchant class from the nobility and the proletariat.

Anonymous wrote:I'm UMC because of my SES, particularly my educational level, not because of my income or net worth.

Grey Gardens types. You see these adjunct professors loading up their 30-year-old Volvos and Saabs outside of Trader Joe's. They don't have a pot to piss in, but they're desperate to think of themselves as UMC.

Anonymous wrote:HHI $410K
NW $8M
Early 50's

How did you amass so much wealth on your income? Seems like you have done a really good job saving. Also, are you single or do you have wife/kids?

I'm UMC because of my SES, particularly my educational level, not because of my income or net worth.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:All of you are rich. UMC is Middle class - $80-120K in this area. This is silly to pretend you are middle class on $200K or more income and that much in savings. Middle class generally don't have that kind of savings and live pay check to pay check. If you live in a million dollar house you are not UMC. If you earn what is posted here, you are not UMC.

PP: that was my point in my earlier post. Our income is high, but culturally we feel UMC. We have to work to support ourselves. I work until midnight many nights and DH and I both work for a portion of most weekends. Obviously many people with lower incomes also work this hard, and as I noted I'm aware of where our income falls in a distribution, but our lifestyle is basically the same as a family making $200k/year.

Your post says you are completely unaware. You are earning what? $300-500K and think its comparable to $200K. Many professional jobs work that many hours. You are completely unaware of how others live. We make $140-160K depending on the year and live in a fixer upper we bought for $360K that is 900 square feet. We are more in line with UMC in this area and I don't consider us UMC. You are no where culturally UMC. You probably own two nice cars, child care, a nice bigger house, housekeeper and multiple vacations a year. You aren't living anywhere close to where we are.

You are thinking of the distinction between one car vs two cars as being the UMC/UC cut off (which is itself odd as most UMC families can afford two cars and are likely to have a lifestyle requiring two cars). I am drawing a distinction between needing to work for money, and not needing to work for money as being the boundary between UMC and UC. As others have said, most of those in the professional class (like DH and I - lawyer/consultant) consider ourselves UMC. You don't have to agree, but clearly a majority of people similarly situated feel the same way we do. And I don't have time for multiple vacations a year, btw - I have to bill.

I agree with this, and I don’t see any UMC people complaining about how poor they are (although yes we do tend to be out of touch). This is just about definitions and the definition of UMC is where we fit.

I would also call us “working rich.”

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:All of you are rich. UMC is Middle class - $80-120K in this area. This is silly to pretend you are middle class on $200K or more income and that much in savings. Middle class generally don't have that kind of savings and live pay check to pay check. If you live in a million dollar house you are not UMC. If you earn what is posted here, you are not UMC.

PP: that was my point in my earlier post. Our income is high, but culturally we feel UMC. We have to work to support ourselves. I work until midnight many nights and DH and I both work for a portion of most weekends. Obviously many people with lower incomes also work this hard, and as I noted I'm aware of where our income falls in a distribution, but our lifestyle is basically the same as a family making $200k/year.

Your post says you are completely unaware. You are earning what? $300-500K and think its comparable to $200K. Many professional jobs work that many hours. You are completely unaware of how others live. We make $140-160K depending on the year and live in a fixer upper we bought for $360K that is 900 square feet. We are more in line with UMC in this area and I don't consider us UMC. You are no where culturally UMC. You probably own two nice cars, child care, a nice bigger house, housekeeper and multiple vacations a year. You aren't living anywhere close to where we are.

You are thinking of the distinction between one car vs two cars as being the UMC/UC cut off (which is itself odd as most UMC families can afford two cars and are likely to have a lifestyle requiring two cars). I am drawing a distinction between needing to work for money, and not needing to work for money as being the boundary between UMC and UC. As others have said, most of those in the professional class (like DH and I - lawyer/consultant) consider ourselves UMC. You don't have to agree, but clearly a majority of people similarly situated feel the same way we do. And I don't have time for multiple vacations a year, btw - I have to bill.

Anonymous wrote:In DC, a family of 4 earning up to 138k (110% of the median) can qualify for some form of housing assistance.

https://dhcd.dc.gov/sites/default/files/dc/sites/dhcd/publication/attachments/HPAP%20Home%20Buyer%20Assistance%20Table%20as%20of%20July%203%2C2020.b.pdf

In my mind, that puts a family of 4 earning below $80,000 in the working class category to me, especially if that is from 2 jobs where parents are working shifts because they can’t afford to outsource childcare.

$80,000 to ~$150,000 is a fairly middle class existence. Once you start to hit $175k+ you are entering UMC. I think UMC really starts to cap off somewhere between 300-400k (depends on personal factors like whether that income is stable year after year, student loans, etc.). Beyond that you’re pretty darn wealthy.

You're making a high income but unless it's translating into savings, you're not wealthy. In this area, a lot of this income goes to mortgages, childcare, and house maintenance expenses because working professionals don't have time to do these things themselves. They've outsourced functions that may have been handled by one spouse in previous generations. Moreover, a lot of these higher paying jobs are no longer as secure. They come with massive time commitments and amounts of stress to produce (and continually produce) and a narrowing pyramid of advancement. You're one job loss, bad year of sales or being passed over for partner from falling down the social ladder unless you're in a growth industry like tech. I think two career Feds making a combined $250-$350K in relatively prestigious positions are a heckofa lot closer to being UMC than a non-equity junior law firm partner trying to grasp at that elusive brass ring.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:$1mm
Not sure offhand
5
Age: 38

This is a cultural, not economic, designation. I'm aware of where our income falls. But I think most families with working professional parents consider themselves UMC culturally.

You're labor, not bourgeoisie, but you're still rich.

“Rich” can mean a lot of things, but when you’re talking about what constitutes upper middle class, there is just UMC and then UC.

Whenever this conversation comes up I think about how in England (or the entire commonwealth I suppose), upper class refers to people in possession of peerage and such. People who earned their wealth are pretty much still considered middle class, so this serves as a reminder to me that if you’re working for your living, your finances are closer to somebody who is homeless than they are to, say, the average person in the top .01%.

Anonymous wrote:$1mm
Not sure offhand
5
Age: 38

This is a cultural, not economic, designation. I'm aware of where our income falls. But I think most families with working professional parents consider themselves UMC culturally.

You're labor, not bourgeoisie, but you're still rich.

Anonymous wrote:And I think of UMC as a class distinction, like the circles you hang with, rather than wealth or income. We’re “net worth millionaires” but I’m not in the Junior League or Rotary. We don’t donate to the arts. Our kids go to public schools, etc. that feels more middle class to me.

Same. Our net worth is in our home equity and retirement accounts, so I feel fortunate but don’t feel like we have money to spend on fancy things.

700k
4.5M
5