Anonymous
Post 05/01/2021 11:01     Subject: How will anti-vaxxers lives be limited?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Probably nothing. Rates of transmission will drop here (but not disappear) and they will skate by on our efforts, all while congratulating themselves for not “poisoning” their bodies.

Some will die. And because it’s human behavior they’ll probably still say they did the right thing while they’re gasping for breath.




Oh you should submit that to a publisher, maybe you'll get a book deal. If people avoided covid while it was blowing up and there were no vaccines, it goes to reason that, if they continue good practices (masks, etc), chances are they'll make it through.


Well, shoot, who wants to do that? Wear a mask everywhere? Keep your kids home from school? No indoor sports? No airline travel? No public transportation? Nobody in your home? No dinners with friends? No weddings? No funerals? No restaurants? I don’t know what you’ve been doing, but that’s what I did to avoid Covid. Without vaccines, you do all that...forever...and the. still end up with Covid.

And mocking me with the book deal thing? What’s that about. It was just a comment.

You guys should all just say “Thanks” to the rest of us for taking it for the team. You know, since we’re poisoning ourselves for your benefit and all.





The book deal quip was a compliment. You have a great imagination, you are persuasive, and you are skilled in hyperbole. You could write a dystopian novel or an adventure. I mean it. Also, I didn't hide in my basement to avoid covid. I took common sense measures while going about my day to day life.



Serious question. How long do you plan on continuing to take "common sense measures"? The virus isn't going away. It won't even go away if 80 percent of the population gets vaccinated. Unless you're willing to stay masked up and socially distanced for years, (which seems like a goofy choice to make), you'll eventually get infected. Maybe you'll live. Maybe not. But you'll definitely get it.
Anonymous
Post 05/01/2021 10:56     Subject: Re:How will anti-vaxxers lives be limited?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Will they be keeping track of people getting their booster shots, as well? What about people who missed the second shot? Is there any point, since vaccinated people can still get and spread covid-19 to other people? Life is going back to normal whether you like it or not, for people who got a vaccine and those who did not.


It is very rare for this to occur, so yes there is a point.


Great! So there's no reason for vaccinated people to wear masks, at any time. Everyone can just crowd on in, butts to bellybuttons in the metro, unmasked.
Anonymous
Post 05/01/2021 10:53     Subject: How will anti-vaxxers lives be limited?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:And should we do more to get them to do the patriotic thing?

No cruises, no international travel, no college.

How else will people who refuse to get the shot be affected?

I have friends who are all upset their kids can't live on campus next year unless they are vaccinated. I don't know what they are going to do.



I will be suing



LMAO. Good luck with that.
Anonymous
Post 05/01/2021 10:49     Subject: How will anti-vaxxers lives be limited?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:All of the unvaccinated will eventually get Covid, maybe multiple times as new variants emerge and spread. Some will survive and some will die. All will get infected.

We can flip that around. All of the vaccinated when encountering the seasonal Covid virus in the fall will die because of cytokine storms.

See how mean-spirited and twisted that sounds? Some truly sick people on this board even if they are vaccinated they are not immune from criticism of their (vile) attempts at persuasion.


Is there anyone vaccinated who died of cytokine storm? Stronger side effects, yes, but not a cytokine storm. The mechanism isn't really there for it, from a medical perspective.

It sounds more like an anti-vax fantasy, to be honest. Stick it to 'em, and all that.
Anonymous
Post 05/01/2021 10:47     Subject: How will anti-vaxxers lives be limited?
I hope that it makes it more difficult to travel. For instance, individual states should require quarantine periods for unvaccinated (by choice) individuals.

I feel like there are certain states with a much higher incidence of anti-vaxxers--they shouldn't be permitted to take covid into states where residents have been conscientious of lock downs and have spent enormous resources on vaccination campaigns.

Yes, I know that this would be hard to enforce, but I think that if it's discovered, there should be a severe penalty.
Anonymous
Post 05/01/2021 10:44     Subject: How will anti-vaxxers lives be limited?
Anonymous wrote:All of the unvaccinated will eventually get Covid, maybe multiple times as new variants emerge and spread. Some will survive and some will die. All will get infected.

We can flip that around. All of the vaccinated when encountering the seasonal Covid virus in the fall will die because of cytokine storms.

See how mean-spirited and twisted that sounds? Some truly sick people on this board even if they are vaccinated they are not immune from criticism of their (vile) attempts at persuasion.
Anonymous
Post 05/01/2021 10:42     Subject: Re:How will anti-vaxxers lives be limited?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:We will never have anything like Israel's internal Covid Green pass, but it has been wildly effective there.

Basically, you need to show that you have been vaccinated (and there records are centralized so there is little to no fear of people just lying or getting a fake vaccine card) to get into all sorts of places. But, because of these rules, a lot of life has gone back to pretty close to normal.


We do have centralized vaccine records, maintained on each state's existing immunization information system.


But we have 50 different states, not one central government record. That greatly complicates things, particularly as you have some states making it illegal to have anything like a vaccine passport.


But any qualified person can get accounts to check at any state online. So, for example, HeadStart personnel are authorized access to all state IISs -- they just need to set up accounts.

It would be just simple paperwork to authorize airline agents to access any or all state vaccine registries.


That "simple paperwork" would not be so simple bureaucratically or, more importantly, politically. And in Israel it is used almost everywhere -- concerts, restaurants, etc. For better or worse, we are not going to allow the hostess at Applebee's access to these kind of records.


Sure. But it's not limited to either "everybody" or "nobody" -- there are categories in between. Schools (esp. public school nurses), HeadStart employees, and pharmacists are all eligible to open accounts, among others (including providers). That group can be expanded if justified. It isn't justified right now, but if things worsened with new variants and we started to look more like India, it might well be.

And before someone brings up HIPAA, "Reporting of immunizations to an IIS are exempt from the Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act of 1996 (HIPAA) Privacy Rule since it is considered a public health activity." ( https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/programs/iis/resources-refs/faq.html#Q5 )
Anonymous
Post 05/01/2021 10:36     Subject: Re:How will anti-vaxxers lives be limited?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Will they be keeping track of people getting their booster shots, as well? What about people who missed the second shot? Is there any point, since vaccinated people can still get and spread covid-19 to other people? Life is going back to normal whether you like it or not, for people who got a vaccine and those who did not.


Yes. Every state has an "Immunization Information System," and all vaccinations within the state are tracked and can be accessed online by authorized people who have accounts (and this is not limited to medical providers). It takes less than a minute to log in and access records for someone, if you have name and date of birth.

If this becomes relevant to controlling spread, it would be very easy to portal each state's IIS info into a single federal system. I haven't heard anything about that happening, but there are not many logistical barriers to doing it. There are political ones, and those would be counterbalanced (or not) by public health interests.


No, all states haven’t been doing that


Can you cite one that hasn't? I'd like to look further into that for work reasons. Thanks.
Anonymous
Post 05/01/2021 10:35     Subject: How will anti-vaxxers lives be limited?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:They’ll just lie about it to do whatever they want to do. It’s really easy to forge a vaccination record.


How are you going to enter it into the state's IIS? That is going to be the gold standard proof.


Many states have not tracked it centrally and many places didn’t require identification. There was an article recently on this - colleges requiring it are having to rely on good faith attestations.


Do you have a link for this? I know that goals and actuality are different things, but all states I have looked at require COVID-19 vaccination reporting to their IIS. There may be a lag right now because of sheer volume, but the expectation and requirement is that it be reported.

I can see colleges may be unable *currently* to access, either because of lag in entries and/or not enough people to do the work who already have accounts, but that should just be a matter of timing.
Anonymous
Post 05/01/2021 10:35     Subject: Re:How will anti-vaxxers lives be limited?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:We will never have anything like Israel's internal Covid Green pass, but it has been wildly effective there.

Basically, you need to show that you have been vaccinated (and there records are centralized so there is little to no fear of people just lying or getting a fake vaccine card) to get into all sorts of places. But, because of these rules, a lot of life has gone back to pretty close to normal.


We do have centralized vaccine records, maintained on each state's existing immunization information system.


But we have 50 different states, not one central government record. That greatly complicates things, particularly as you have some states making it illegal to have anything like a vaccine passport.


But any qualified person can get accounts to check at any state online. So, for example, HeadStart personnel are authorized access to all state IISs -- they just need to set up accounts.

It would be just simple paperwork to authorize airline agents to access any or all state vaccine registries.


That "simple paperwork" would not be so simple bureaucratically or, more importantly, politically. And in Israel it is used almost everywhere -- concerts, restaurants, etc. For better or worse, we are not going to allow the hostess at Applebee's access to these kind of records.
Anonymous
Post 05/01/2021 10:33     Subject: Re:How will anti-vaxxers lives be limited?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Will they be keeping track of people getting their booster shots, as well? What about people who missed the second shot? Is there any point, since vaccinated people can still get and spread covid-19 to other people? Life is going back to normal whether you like it or not, for people who got a vaccine and those who did not.


Yes. Every state has an "Immunization Information System," and all vaccinations within the state are tracked and can be accessed online by authorized people who have accounts (and this is not limited to medical providers). It takes less than a minute to log in and access records for someone, if you have name and date of birth.

If this becomes relevant to controlling spread, it would be very easy to portal each state's IIS info into a single federal system. I haven't heard anything about that happening, but there are not many logistical barriers to doing it. There are political ones, and those would be counterbalanced (or not) by public health interests.


No, all states haven’t been doing that
Anonymous
Post 05/01/2021 10:32     Subject: How will anti-vaxxers lives be limited?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:They’ll just lie about it to do whatever they want to do. It’s really easy to forge a vaccination record.


How are you going to enter it into the state's IIS? That is going to be the gold standard proof.


Many states have not tracked it centrally and many places didn’t require identification. There was an article recently on this - colleges requiring it are having to rely on good faith attestations.
Anonymous
Post 05/01/2021 10:32     Subject: Re:How will anti-vaxxers lives be limited?
Anonymous wrote:Will they be keeping track of people getting their booster shots, as well? What about people who missed the second shot? Is there any point, since vaccinated people can still get and spread covid-19 to other people? Life is going back to normal whether you like it or not, for people who got a vaccine and those who did not.


It is very rare for this to occur, so yes there is a point.
Anonymous
Post 05/01/2021 10:26     Subject: Re:How will anti-vaxxers lives be limited?
Anonymous wrote:Will they be keeping track of people getting their booster shots, as well? What about people who missed the second shot? Is there any point, since vaccinated people can still get and spread covid-19 to other people? Life is going back to normal whether you like it or not, for people who got a vaccine and those who did not.


Yes. Every state has an "Immunization Information System," and all vaccinations within the state are tracked and can be accessed online by authorized people who have accounts (and this is not limited to medical providers). It takes less than a minute to log in and access records for someone, if you have name and date of birth.

If this becomes relevant to controlling spread, it would be very easy to portal each state's IIS info into a single federal system. I haven't heard anything about that happening, but there are not many logistical barriers to doing it. There are political ones, and those would be counterbalanced (or not) by public health interests.
Anonymous
Post 05/01/2021 10:22     Subject: Re:How will anti-vaxxers lives be limited?
Will they be keeping track of people getting their booster shots, as well? What about people who missed the second shot? Is there any point, since vaccinated people can still get and spread covid-19 to other people? Life is going back to normal whether you like it or not, for people who got a vaccine and those who did not.