Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:To me it goes:

UVA, WM, VT engineering
VT, JMU, GMU comp science
CNU, UMW, VCU, GMU
Other VA publics

+ 1 pretty straightforward

UVA, W&M, VT, and JMU, for instance, are largely taking students from upper middle income families and producing upper middle income graduates. This isn't really turning iron into gold.

Schools like ODU, Norfolk State, and Virginia State are actually doing more to move a higher percentage of their students from lower income brackets to higher income brackets.

If the "top" VA public schools follow the lead of the top privates, they may also shift their demographics to become life changers. That should be the mission of our public schools - not just more UMC education mills.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:To me it goes:

UVA, WM, VT engineering
VT, JMU, GMU comp science
CNU, UMW, VCU, GMU
Other VA publics

+ 1 pretty straightforward

UVA, W&M, VT, and JMU, for instance, are largely taking students from upper middle income families and producing upper middle income graduates. This isn't really turning iron into gold.

Schools like ODU, Norfolk State, and Virginia State are actually doing more to move a higher percentage of their students from lower income brackets to higher income brackets.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Comparing SAT scores seems a little silly in light of test-optional policies.

No. Test-optional just muddies the water. Remember, test-optional allows schools to admit under-performers/bad test-takers/etc. without counting their score. I’m not aware of any selective private that wants to do away with scores and that’s true of most selective publics too. After the next admissions cycle, testing will be back big-time, especially for traditional applicants.

I think test optional is here to stay. Universities like it because it gives them the flexibility to admit who they want without it impacting their reported standardized test scores.

So for highly competitive program you go to:

Va Tech - engineering
GMU - computer science
VCU - art

Then the rest you go to where you fit.

Anonymous wrote:Comparing SAT scores seems a little silly in light of test-optional policies.

No. Test-optional just muddies the water. Remember, test-optional allows schools to admit under-performers/bad test-takers/etc. without counting their score. I’m not aware of any selective private that wants to do away with scores and that’s true of most selective publics too. After the next admissions cycle, testing will be back big-time, especially for traditional applicants.

Comparing SAT scores seems a little silly in light of test-optional policies.

Anonymous wrote:Shit. JMU isn't on VT's level. Not even close. And the two HBCUs are objectively the worst public colleges in VA based on graduation rates, incoming student stats and just about every other quantifiable metric. Not sorry. Facts can't be racist, y'all. They're just facts.

If you take out VT engineering, VT and JMU are indeed on the same level. You seem confused.

I do agree with the rest of your post, however.

Anonymous wrote:One of the richest self-made people we know is a thirty-something who went to Radford.

I say this as an Ivy double grad whose kid is trying to decide between Ivies, UVA and W&M.

Rankings give you an average, with long (sometimes very long) tails on either end.

+1 Rankings are based on real averages and data distribution tails also are real. It’s all good. I’m sure the UVA and the Radford students all had great college experiences that helped them become happy and successful adults.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yours is outdated
https://www.prepscholar.com/sat/s/colleges/William-and-Mary-SAT-scores-GPA

That is some random sales page. Looks outdated.

I pulled from the searchable database of colleges:
https://www.prepscholar.com/admissions/colleges/search/

There is an error in the analysis on the random sales page.
https://www.prepscholar.com/sat/s/colleges/William-and-Mary-SAT-scores-GPA
William and Mary SAT Score Analysis (New 1600 SAT)
The 25th percentile New SAT score is 1230, and the 75th percentile New SAT score is 1510. In other words, a 1230 on the New SAT places you below average, while a 1510 will move you up to above average.

AND an error on the database listing (although this is much closer):
https://www.prepscholar.com/admissions/colleges/info/college-of-william-and-mary/
Average SAT Score: 1430
SAT 25th Percentile: 1340
SAT 75th Percentile: 1510

Compare to published W&M stats:
https://www.wm.edu/admission/undergraduateadmission/facts-figures/testing/index.php
SAT Middle 50% range for Class of 2023 1320-1510 (Critical Reading + Math out of 1600)


Crappy source.

Anonymous wrote:Yours is outdated
https://www.prepscholar.com/sat/s/colleges/William-and-Mary-SAT-scores-GPA

That is some random sales page. Looks outdated.

I pulled from the searchable database of colleges:
https://www.prepscholar.com/admissions/colleges/search/

Yours is outdated
https://www.prepscholar.com/sat/s/colleges/William-and-Mary-SAT-scores-GPA

Anonymous wrote:It literally says 1415 on prep

https://i.ibb.co/wdbZnVP/wm.jpg

It literally says 1415 on prep

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here, I put HBCUs at the bottom because they objectively have worse metrics than the other public colleges. I never made any normative claims about why that is. As someone put earlier, I know it’s because of a lack of funding, and many kids who go there had families that were impacted by systemic racism in the past that still affects the present because of lack of opportunity, generational wealth, etc..

But your arbitrary groupings aren’t objective. That’s the whole point. Did each grouping have the same increment of median SAT scores? Or unweighted GPA? Why S plus A-D?

Objective would have been a ranking based on some metric. Still would reflect underlying system racism but wouldn’t be your preconceived notions of prestige.

Actually if you look it up, they basically were ranked by increments of the SAT. Also, I purposely left out explanations so people could discuss

What increment? Share your data.

Ugh fine just to prove you wrong

UVA-1430 W&M-1415
VT-1285 jmu-1205 gmu-1215
Vcu-1165 cnu-1203
Radford-1041 longwood-1052
Norfolk state-950 va state-920
Source:prep scholar
Now pls get off your high horse about racism, I already defended you on the last page, sincerely, OP

Interesting how many you got wrong or omitted.

w&m - 1430
uva - 1410

vt - 1280
cnu - 1230
gmu - 1220
vmi - 1210
jmu - 1200

umw - 1190
vcu - 1180
odu - 1110

radford - 1060
longwood - 1060
uva-wise - 1030

norfolk state - 950
vsu - 950

William and Mary’s average SAT is not 1430☠️

It is according to OP's source.

https://www.prepscholar.com/admissions/colleges/info/college-of-william-and-mary/

I think it's more meaningful to group how far above or below the median (1190)...if you truly want to objectively group.

More than 1 std above median:
w&m - 1430
uva - 1410
vt - 1280

Above/equal median:
cnu - 1230
gmu - 1220
vmi - 1210
jmu - 1200
umw - 1190 (median)

Below median:
vcu - 1180
odu - 1110
radford - 1060
longwood - 1060

More than 1 std below median:
uva-wise - 1030
norfolk state - 950
vsu - 950