Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The eye rolls and huffs are communicating something. If you use empathy to lean into what he’s feeling and out words to it, he will learn to communicate. How much do you model using “I feel” statements in your communication?

I feel irritated that making basic good behavior subject to negotiation from a young age inevitably results in adults who think that eye-rolling in front of the boss is an acceptable form dissent at work on this forum.
I feel sad when adults with a similar world view on the acceptability of eyerolling at work suggest that a supervisor who does not tolerate over-indulgent behavior deserves to be sabotaged.
I feel frustrated that their parents probably caved into manipulative behaviors, and feel regretful that they now have trouble coping with anything disagreeable to them.
I feel annoyed that when the role between parent and friend is blurred growing up, a similar misunderstanding happens at work.

Empathy and communication are important, but so are clear expectations, consequences, and teaching kids how to manage disappointment and frustration so they don't become insufferable adults.

I hear that it’s really frustrating to you when you meet with people at work who don’t treat others with respect. That’s very annoying. I hear that you’re worried about raising a child like this, and you really want your child to understand that respect to authorities is not negotiable. You want them to know that regardless of how they feel, they need to show respect. And more than that, you want to live in a world where people raise their children to understand that.

I worry that you might be projecting some categories and concepts about authority, hierarchy, and respect in the adult world which are actually quite complex and subtle onto a very young child whose life experience is quite different. I feel curious why you don’t think empathy and communication can be building blocks for better teaching about consequences. From my perspective, the impersonal world of work and the realm of family relationships are distinct. It’s good for children to learn how to operate in settings outside the family and we don’t begin to expect that they can do that independently and responsibly until they are slightly older. When you respond to a question about how to teach a 4 year old by describing how you feel about the work world, I worry that we are talking past each other. We might even agree on the goals and have different perspectives on how to get there. I’m open to learning about how you do that, and I would like it if you were open to different perspectives as well. My personal view is that empathy and communication help pave the way for the child to really accept and understand the consequences of their behavior on others and begin to build self-discipline and genuine character, which is the heart of discipline in general.

I hear that it's really frustrating for you when parents come to a different conclusion on approaches like whole-brain child. It's very annoying when people don't enthusiastically agree with your philosophy. I worry that because you are so heavily invested in whole-brain, that you are projecting that I must be a cold and petty tyrant because I don't tolerate eyerolling or excessive whining in toddlers. I am curious why you read right past the part where I said that empathy and communication are important.

Like the OP, if my toddler experiments with rolling her eyes and walking away when I ask her to do something more than twice, she gets scooped up and we have a conversation in a different location. She can briefly plead her case, but is nicely but firmly told that this behavior is not OK and what my expectations are for what she will do next. I understand that you may do a deeper dive on feelings. I have observed this approach in others and have not been impressed with the results, so I am making a different choice.

Separately, as a manager, when I read comments on this thread from posters who think that eyerolling is fine at work, it speaks to my personal observation that there seem to be more and more temper tantrums at work when someone is told no. I frequently wonder if there is a connection between these adult tantrums and a philosophy of everything being negotiable from a young age. My personal view is that some parents who themselves had very strict parents may have over-corrected.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The eye rolls and huffs are communicating something. If you use empathy to lean into what he’s feeling and out words to it, he will learn to communicate. How much do you model using “I feel” statements in your communication?

I feel irritated that making basic good behavior subject to negotiation from a young age inevitably results in adults who think that eye-rolling in front of the boss is an acceptable form dissent at work on this forum.
I feel sad when adults with a similar world view on the acceptability of eyerolling at work suggest that a supervisor who does not tolerate over-indulgent behavior deserves to be sabotaged.
I feel frustrated that their parents probably caved into manipulative behaviors, and feel regretful that they now have trouble coping with anything disagreeable to them.
I feel annoyed that when the role between parent and friend is blurred growing up, a similar misunderstanding happens at work.

Empathy and communication are important, but so are clear expectations, consequences, and teaching kids how to manage disappointment and frustration so they don't become insufferable adults.

I hear that it’s really frustrating to you when you meet with people at work who don’t treat others with respect. That’s very annoying. I hear that you’re worried about raising a child like this, and you really want your child to understand that respect to authorities is not negotiable. You want them to know that regardless of how they feel, they need to show respect. And more than that, you want to live in a world where people raise their children to understand that.

I worry that you might be projecting some categories and concepts about authority, hierarchy, and respect in the adult world which are actually quite complex and subtle onto a very young child whose life experience is quite different. I feel curious why you don’t think empathy and communication can be building blocks for better teaching about consequences. From my perspective, the impersonal world of work and the realm of family relationships are distinct. It’s good for children to learn how to operate in settings outside the family and we don’t begin to expect that they can do that independently and responsibly until they are slightly older. When you respond to a question about how to teach a 4 year old by describing how you feel about the work world, I worry that we are talking past each other. We might even agree on the goals and have different perspectives on how to get there. I’m open to learning about how you do that, and I would like it if you were open to different perspectives as well. My personal view is that empathy and communication help pave the way for the child to really accept and understand the consequences of their behavior on others and begin to build self-discipline and genuine character, which is the heart of discipline in general.

I hear that it's really frustrating for you when parents come to a different conclusion on approaches like whole-brain child. It's very annoying when people don't enthusiastically agree with your philosophy. I worry that because you are so heavily invested in whole-brain, that you are projecting that I must be a cold and petty tyrant because I don't tolerate eyerolling or excessive whining in toddlers. I am curious why you read right past the part where I said that empathy and communication are important.

Like the OP, if my toddler experiments with rolling her eyes and walking away when I ask her to do something more than twice, she gets scooped up and we have a conversation in a different location. She can briefly plead her case, but is nicely but firmly told that this behavior is not OK and what my expectations are for what she will do next. I understand that you may do a deeper dive on feelings. I have observed this approach in others and have not been impressed with the results, so I am making a different choice.

Separately, as a manager, when I read comments on this thread from posters who think that eyerolling is fine at work, it speaks to my personal observation that there seem to be more and more temper tantrums at work when someone is told no. I frequently wonder if there is a connection between these adult tantrums and a philosophy of everything being negotiable from a young age. My personal view is that some parents who themselves had very strict parents may have over-corrected.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The eye rolls and huffs are communicating something. If you use empathy to lean into what he’s feeling and out words to it, he will learn to communicate. How much do you model using “I feel” statements in your communication?

I feel irritated that making basic good behavior subject to negotiation from a young age inevitably results in adults who think that eye-rolling in front of the boss is an acceptable form dissent at work on this forum.
I feel sad when adults with a similar world view on the acceptability of eyerolling at work suggest that a supervisor who does not tolerate over-indulgent behavior deserves to be sabotaged.
I feel frustrated that their parents probably caved into manipulative behaviors, and feel regretful that they now have trouble coping with anything disagreeable to them.
I feel annoyed that when the role between parent and friend is blurred growing up, a similar misunderstanding happens at work.

Empathy and communication are important, but so are clear expectations, consequences, and teaching kids how to manage disappointment and frustration so they don't become insufferable adults.

I hear that it’s really frustrating to you when you meet with people at work who don’t treat others with respect. That’s very annoying. I hear that you’re worried about raising a child like this, and you really want your child to understand that respect to authorities is not negotiable. You want them to know that regardless of how they feel, they need to show respect. And more than that, you want to live in a world where people raise their children to understand that.

I worry that you might be projecting some categories and concepts about authority, hierarchy, and respect in the adult world which are actually quite complex and subtle onto a very young child whose life experience is quite different. I feel curious why you don’t think empathy and communication can be building blocks for better teaching about consequences. From my perspective, the impersonal world of work and the realm of family relationships are distinct. It’s good for children to learn how to operate in settings outside the family and we don’t begin to expect that they can do that independently and responsibly until they are slightly older. When you respond to a question about how to teach a 4 year old by describing how you feel about the work world, I worry that we are talking past each other. We might even agree on the goals and have different perspectives on how to get there. I’m open to learning about how you do that, and I would like it if you were open to different perspectives as well. My personal view is that empathy and communication help pave the way for the child to really accept and understand the consequences of their behavior on others and begin to build self-discipline and genuine character, which is the heart of discipline in general.

I hear that it's really frustrating for you when parents come to a different conclusion on approaches like whole-brain child. It's very annoying when people don't enthusiastically agree with your philosophy. I worry that because you are so heavily invested in whole-brain, that you are projecting that I must be a cold and petty tyrant because I don't tolerate eyerolling or excessive whining in toddlers. I am curious why you read right past the part where I said that empathy and communication are important.

Like the OP, if my toddler experiments with rolling her eyes and walking away when I ask her to do something more than twice, she gets scooped up and we have a conversation in a different location. She can briefly plead her case, but is nicely but firmly told that this behavior is not OK and what my expectations are for what she will do next. I understand that you may do a deeper dive on feelings. I have observed this approach in others and have not been impressed with the results, so I am making a different choice.

Separately, as a manager, when I read comments on this thread from posters who think that eyerolling is fine at work, it speaks to my personal observation that there seem to be more and more temper tantrums at work when someone is told no. I frequently wonder if there is a connection between these adult tantrums and a philosophy of everything being negotiable from a young age. My personal view is that some parents who themselves had very strict parents may have over-corrected.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The eye rolls and huffs are communicating something. If you use empathy to lean into what he’s feeling and out words to it, he will learn to communicate. How much do you model using “I feel” statements in your communication?

I feel irritated that making basic good behavior subject to negotiation from a young age inevitably results in adults who think that eye-rolling in front of the boss is an acceptable form dissent at work on this forum.
I feel sad when adults with a similar world view on the acceptability of eyerolling at work suggest that a supervisor who does not tolerate over-indulgent behavior deserves to be sabotaged.
I feel frustrated that their parents probably caved into manipulative behaviors, and feel regretful that they now have trouble coping with anything disagreeable to them.
I feel annoyed that when the role between parent and friend is blurred growing up, a similar misunderstanding happens at work.

Empathy and communication are important, but so are clear expectations, consequences, and teaching kids how to manage disappointment and frustration so they don't become insufferable adults.

I hear that it’s really frustrating to you when you meet with people at work who don’t treat others with respect. That’s very annoying. I hear that you’re worried about raising a child like this, and you really want your child to understand that respect to authorities is not negotiable. You want them to know that regardless of how they feel, they need to show respect. And more than that, you want to live in a world where people raise their children to understand that.

I worry that you might be projecting some categories and concepts about authority, hierarchy, and respect in the adult world which are actually quite complex and subtle onto a very young child whose life experience is quite different. I feel curious why you don’t think empathy and communication can be building blocks for better teaching about consequences. From my perspective, the impersonal world of work and the realm of family relationships are distinct. It’s good for children to learn how to operate in settings outside the family and we don’t begin to expect that they can do that independently and responsibly until they are slightly older. When you respond to a question about how to teach a 4 year old by describing how you feel about the work world, I worry that we are talking past each other. We might even agree on the goals and have different perspectives on how to get there. I’m open to learning about how you do that, and I would like it if you were open to different perspectives as well. My personal view is that empathy and communication help pave the way for the child to really accept and understand the consequences of their behavior on others and begin to build self-discipline and genuine character, which is the heart of discipline in general.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The eye rolls and huffs are communicating something. If you use empathy to lean into what he’s feeling and out words to it, he will learn to communicate. How much do you model using “I feel” statements in your communication?

I feel irritated that making basic good behavior subject to negotiation from a young age inevitably results in adults who think that eye-rolling in front of the boss is an acceptable form dissent at work on this forum.
I feel sad when adults with a similar world view on the acceptability of eyerolling at work suggest that a supervisor who does not tolerate over-indulgent behavior deserves to be sabotaged.
I feel frustrated that their parents probably caved into manipulative behaviors, and feel regretful that they now have trouble coping with anything disagreeable to them.
I feel annoyed that when the role between parent and friend is blurred growing up, a similar misunderstanding happens at work.

Empathy and communication are important, but so are clear expectations, consequences, and teaching kids how to manage disappointment and frustration so they don't become insufferable adults.

I hear that it’s really frustrating to you when you meet with people at work who don’t treat others with respect. That’s very annoying. I hear that you’re worried about raising a child like this, and you really want your child to understand that respect to authorities is not negotiable. You want them to know that regardless of how they feel, they need to show respect. And more than that, you want to live in a world where people raise their children to understand that.

I worry that you might be projecting some categories and concepts about authority, hierarchy, and respect in the adult world which are actually quite complex and subtle onto a very young child whose life experience is quite different. I feel curious why you don’t think empathy and communication can be building blocks for better teaching about consequences. From my perspective, the impersonal world of work and the realm of family relationships are distinct. It’s good for children to learn how to operate in settings outside the family and we don’t begin to expect that they can do that independently and responsibly until they are slightly older. When you respond to a question about how to teach a 4 year old by describing how you feel about the work world, I worry that we are talking past each other. We might even agree on the goals and have different perspectives on how to get there. I’m open to learning about how you do that, and I would like it if you were open to different perspectives as well. My personal view is that empathy and communication help pave the way for the child to really accept and understand the consequences of their behavior on others and begin to build self-discipline and genuine character, which is the heart of discipline in general.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The eye rolls and huffs are communicating something. If you use empathy to lean into what he’s feeling and out words to it, he will learn to communicate. How much do you model using “I feel” statements in your communication?

I feel irritated that making basic good behavior subject to negotiation from a young age inevitably results in adults who think that eye-rolling in front of the boss is an acceptable form dissent at work on this forum.
I feel sad when adults with a similar world view on the acceptability of eyerolling at work suggest that a supervisor who does not tolerate over-indulgent behavior deserves to be sabotaged.
I feel frustrated that their parents probably caved into manipulative behaviors, and feel regretful that they now have trouble coping with anything disagreeable to them.
I feel annoyed that when the role between parent and friend is blurred growing up, a similar misunderstanding happens at work.

Empathy and communication are important, but so are clear expectations, consequences, and teaching kids how to manage disappointment and frustration so they don't become insufferable adults.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No eye rolling, no huffing, no ignoring, no walking away. Set the standard NOW when it’s easier so you have a good baseline in the teen years when things can get really tough.

No eye rolling by you either, no ignoring or disrespectful talking back. Hopefully you follow what you preach and be a robot yourself.

I'm the person you are replying to and no...I don't eye roll or ignore people or disrespectfully "talk back" to anyone. if I have a problem with a person or a situation, I deal with it without theatrics. It's not that difficult and it's not robotic. I can certainly get upset and angry. I communicate that in ways that aren't petty or unproductive.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:With the clothing example, letting a four year old pick out their clothes can be too much choice for some kids. So either let them choose the night before from two options, or you pick the clothes out. Prepare to eliminate power struggles when time matters.

I think consequences are largely useless and set a negative tone. Focus on rewarding positive behavior, with a reward being a smile or a "good job," not stickers or toys or what have you. Whole Brain Child is great generally, but especially as kids get older. You want kids to learn these skills for themselves, and as a parent, you need to know they're developmental. Of course you have different approaches and standards for children vs. adults; they're *children*, FFS.

Finally, every parent I know who is "strict" and has compliant kids really just has easy-going kids, and so it matters less what the parents do (i.e., they give themselves too much credit). For kids who are more challenging, coming down hard on them only escalates. I'm not saying your four year old has a challenging temperament, but if he does, a softer approach is better.

+100 They think it's their parenting but so much is the specific kids. I have one easy-going, one not. DH tried for way too long to be the strict parent he thought was the one right way to parent. It worked fine with our easy-going one but was on the way to destroying his relationship with the not-easy-going one before he was willing to find other ways.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The eye rolls and huffs are communicating something. If you use empathy to lean into what he’s feeling and out words to it, he will learn to communicate. How much do you model using “I feel” statements in your communication?

I feel irritated that making basic good behavior subject to negotiation from a young age inevitably results in adults who think that eye-rolling in front of the boss is an acceptable form dissent at work on this forum.
I feel sad when adults with a similar world view on the acceptability of eyerolling at work suggest that a supervisor who does not tolerate over-indulgent behavior deserves to be sabotaged.
I feel frustrated that their parents probably caved into manipulative behaviors, and feel regretful that they now have trouble coping with anything disagreeable to them.
I feel annoyed that when the role between parent and friend is blurred growing up, a similar misunderstanding happens at work.

Empathy and communication are important, but so are clear expectations, consequences, and teaching kids how to manage disappointment and frustration so they don't become insufferable adults.

If I rolled my eyes at my boss, I'd be fired. And I'd deserve it.

Good riddance, anyone who thinks they should be fired over an eye roll clearly has issues.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The eye rolls and huffs are communicating something. If you use empathy to lean into what he’s feeling and out words to it, he will learn to communicate. How much do you model using “I feel” statements in your communication?

I feel irritated that making basic good behavior subject to negotiation from a young age inevitably results in adults who think that eye-rolling in front of the boss is an acceptable form dissent at work on this forum.
I feel sad when adults with a similar world view on the acceptability of eyerolling at work suggest that a supervisor who does not tolerate over-indulgent behavior deserves to be sabotaged.
I feel frustrated that their parents probably caved into manipulative behaviors, and feel regretful that they now have trouble coping with anything disagreeable to them.
I feel annoyed that when the role between parent and friend is blurred growing up, a similar misunderstanding happens at work.

Empathy and communication are important, but so are clear expectations, consequences, and teaching kids how to manage disappointment and frustration so they don't become insufferable adults.

Yeah, I’m willing to bet that most of us who take a Whole Brain Child-type approach have very different standards for behavior from the *adults* in our lives vs. the *children*. It’s not easy work, parenting that way, and those of us who chose it usually are dedicated parents who have high standards for their kids (hell, WBC talks so.much. About the importance of high standards). It’s much easier to either be completely permissive or overly strict—you get to check out of paying attention to your children’s emotional development. IME, self-described “strict” parents don’t do a freaking thing to teach their kids how to manage difficult feelings, other than telling them to go to their rooms and do it on their own.

The insufferable part came quicker than I expected.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The eye rolls and huffs are communicating something. If you use empathy to lean into what he’s feeling and out words to it, he will learn to communicate. How much do you model using “I feel” statements in your communication?

I feel irritated that making basic good behavior subject to negotiation from a young age inevitably results in adults who think that eye-rolling in front of the boss is an acceptable form dissent at work on this forum.
I feel sad when adults with a similar world view on the acceptability of eyerolling at work suggest that a supervisor who does not tolerate over-indulgent behavior deserves to be sabotaged.
I feel frustrated that their parents probably caved into manipulative behaviors, and feel regretful that they now have trouble coping with anything disagreeable to them.
I feel annoyed that when the role between parent and friend is blurred growing up, a similar misunderstanding happens at work.

Empathy and communication are important, but so are clear expectations, consequences, and teaching kids how to manage disappointment and frustration so they don't become insufferable adults.

If I rolled my eyes at my boss, I'd be fired. And I'd deserve it.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The eye rolls and huffs are communicating something. If you use empathy to lean into what he’s feeling and out words to it, he will learn to communicate. How much do you model using “I feel” statements in your communication?

I feel irritated that making basic good behavior subject to negotiation from a young age inevitably results in adults who think that eye-rolling in front of the boss is an acceptable form dissent at work on this forum.
I feel sad when adults with a similar world view on the acceptability of eyerolling at work suggest that a supervisor who does not tolerate over-indulgent behavior deserves to be sabotaged.
I feel frustrated that their parents probably caved into manipulative behaviors, and feel regretful that they now have trouble coping with anything disagreeable to them.
I feel annoyed that when the role between parent and friend is blurred growing up, a similar misunderstanding happens at work.

Empathy and communication are important, but so are clear expectations, consequences, and teaching kids how to manage disappointment and frustration so they don't become insufferable adults.