pettifogger wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:It’s part of math and will be necessary as he advances so definitely best not to fight it but instead support him developing the skill. Whatever you don’t act like getting out of showing work is worthwhile goal or that he is somehow “good at math” because he can do it in his head. Being good at math includes showing work.

Exactly. If the instructions say to show your work, that’s what you need to do. There are good reasons for it and kids don’t necessarily understand the underlying reasons now, but they will when they are older. And they will appreciate the teachers who insisted on following instructions.

OP here - I am a teacher, and I don't think our stated mission anywhere is to teach kids to follow instructions. I thought it was to teach them critical thinking, yada yada. So following instructions when it means doing something unnecessary that just make the work harder really isn't worth teaching. Like I said earlier - I was a teacher in fcps, and the only reason we insisted on them writing out the work was when we started the SOL high stakes testing and really needed them to get every answer right. There was no educational theory at all behind that.

If nothing else it’s important to be in the habit of showing work by the time he gets to 6th grade because teachers will give partial credit if the problem was done sensibly but there was a something like a rounding error or copying down 6 instead of 9. Also, the fact is even gifted math students didn’t do complicated algebra problems in their head and there are conventions around d how work is shown that even your young Einstein needs to follow. Sounds like you are not helping the situation at all with your attitude (and like you were fairly shortsighted as a teacher too.)

+1

This is part of math. There are a TON of reasons why you need to show your work in math. At some point, even the most gifted kids can't do it all in their head. Better to establish the habit of showing your work early on. Plus, the point isn't that your kid knows the answer, it's that they know how they got that answer, because the method is the same even as the problems get harder.

Please cite some educational research that shows that math achievement is in any way improved by kids being able to show their work on paper.

You can't. Because it doesn't exist.

Know what does? Research that shows that forcing kids to write down work unnecessarily (like simple problems that most kids can and do do in their heads) actually negatively impacts achievement.

When the problems are too difficult to solve without writing them out, then kids will write them out. Doing otherwise is illogical.

Spot on. "Showing work" is just a manifestation of a deeper root cause; the incredibly watered down way math is taught in elementary school (and middle/high as well!) But particularly in elementary school, where a monumental and misplaced amount of effort is spent telling the kids to "show work". The idea is that it will help them think better, when all it does is instead induce tears in a large number of kids (and ultimately makes many of them hate math, resulting in permanent mental detachment from the subject in later years). As the PP said, work will naturally be shown when a good problem or puzzle is presented which requires thinking! But we do not get problem solving or critical thinking in math class, we get a shallow and repetitive set of calculations, and an even more shallow sense that showing work on these shallow exercises will somehow lead to higher mathematical thinking. In general, it will not! Becoming better at math requires slowly spending time struggling with problems, slowly orienting oneself to the point of figuring them out, then presenting the method (proof). Showing work will happen, but teachers please at least once in a while, give your students an actual problem to solve!

Anonymous wrote:But if that’s the expectation your child should do it unless they have a compelling reason not too. Many kids do and require accommodations if some kind which is fine. However most kids can generally do it and if your can’t you should be wondering why not trying to change the expectation.

pettifogger wrote:No one is denying that showing work is important when it makes sense to do so. It's the "turning math into writing" that is really frustrating by forcing kids to show work to trivial questions. Teachers should know when a problem requires work to be shown, and when it does not. At the same time, teachers should be able to gauge who is struggling and may need help organizing and writing things down, vs who is really bored and is not being challenged. Forcing a kid who is not challenged to write unnecessary things in math class when they already know exactly how to do a certain calculation 1) wastes their class time, as they should instead be given more challenging problems that they won't be able to do in their head and require them to write things down 2) frustrates them to the point where they are turned off to math because they see it as pointless and boring, and possibly even worse turns them off to learning/school 3) doesn't actually teach them new math, or extends their problem solving skills.

You argument that always showing work on trivial questions in early elementary school will help kids in college calculus and science classes is not compelling at all. Teaching kids how to think, and how to organize their thinking by practicing challenging multi-step questions is what will ultimately help them tackle late high school and college math and science.

Most of the kids who are struggling in college or high school math are NOT struggling because they don't know how to write something down. They are struggling because they don't understand the problem and/or have no idea where to start, or what to do. It's having had a shaky foundation and weak understanding of math concepts, not the writing that prevents them from succeeding.

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Anonymous wrote:Sadly , this is my kid too. In high school now and he gets all the answers right but loses points for never showing the work. And refuses on principle because "its stupid"

Well, tell him that when he goes to work, people won’t be interested in his results without knowing how he got there.

It’s like the bank showing you your balance without an opportunity to see the transactions.

That's kind of funny because I have found the opposite. At work results are the ONLY thing that counts, and no one wants to hear about how I got there (much as I would like to talk about it).

I don’t know what line of work you’re in, but in most regular jobs, you have to show your work. Heck, in addition to managers and all senior level people you must report to, you have internal and external audit at a minimum. That is all about showing your work.

But if you can work without showing it, good for you.

I don't think you understood what the PP was saying. They're saying, the bosses don't want to "see the work", they want to see the polished picture PowerPoint presentations that abstract away all the work. And many of the really stupid bosses give extra points for presenting a rosier picture than the reality. They don't want to hear that problems exist, or how much work was really put into the result.

Anonymous wrote:For simple operations, it's pretty inane to ask kids to show or explain their work. The time spent demanding that in K-3 would be better spent with drilling basic math facts.

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Anonymous wrote:I have a kid in ES in AAP math, and he's not doing well because he doesn't show his work enough. He gets the answers right, but he can do most of the problems in his head. He tries to write out his work, but he just can't do it in enough detail for her. He much prefers to do it in his head, and he doesn't do any better when he is forced to write it out. It just makes the whole thing tedious for him. I used to teach in fcps and our main goal for making kids write out their work in math was so that they would get the test questions right. The teacher tries to tell him some nonsense about how she wants to see his thinking, but she doesn't even look at the work that is turned in, and certainly has never given him even five minutes of personal attention to talk about his "thinking." Does anyone else have a kid that suffers from this rule about showing work or getting it marked wrong? I'm not happy about this, obviously.

My son has this issue. I’m homeschooling him this year, but plan to put him back in FCPS for 7th grade. We’ve been doing problems about trains traveling at different speeds, leaving at different times, what time do they pass each other....he does it mostly in his head. I’m worried about what will happen next year. When I try to work with him to show his work, he really struggles. His working memory tested in the 99th percentile, so I think he just naturally can process more in his head. Not sure how to handle it with the teacher. Sorry no advice.

Anonymous wrote:For simple operations, it's pretty inane to ask kids to show or explain their work. The time spent demanding that in K-3 would be better spent with drilling basic math facts.

For word problems and pre-algebra equation solving, the student should at least show some steps. They shouldn't need to show every trivial operation, but there should at least be enough there for the teacher to figure out how the student arrived at the answer.

I think this example: "6x = 12 6x/6 = 12/6 x = 2" is a perfect example of the teacher being overly picky and expecting trivial steps to be illustrated. It should be sufficient for a kid to jump to x=2 from the problem statement. Now, if the problem were 6x + 3 = (-2x -13)/4, then the kid should show at least one intermediate step before listing the answer.