Anonymous wrote:It makes me sad that so many of these responses focus on failures of women. Sometimes it has nothing at all to do with your self-esteem, sense of worth, or traumatic upbringing. The fact is that MEN are not taught to be loving, caring partners.

Boys who exhibit the kind of emotions and behaviors women WANT as adults are shamed, called sissies or worse, and told they needed to learn how to act like a "real" man. The result of this is a shockingly low supply of truly good male partners for women. Meanwhile, society continues to tell women that their main goal in life should be to get married and have kids. Yeah yeah, go ahead and get an education and travel and find yourself if that makes you feel better, but all of that is in pursuit of finding Mr. Right.

So we have on one side, a pool of underwhelming men, and on the other side, a pool of women who have to choose between being alone indefinitely or settling for what's available. But yes, it's the women's fault for picking men who treat them poorly.

Such a strong point and so true. As an AA, this particularly grates me. I work hard to reshape misconceptions with those I know, but it is such a frustrating circumstance. Not that it is limited to any race, men are glorified and women demeaned in a lot of different racial cultures. But it is sad. There was a thread about a deadbeat dad once where it really hit a nerve to hear about how he was creating generational trauMa with his negligence and ignorance towards his daughter, exploiting the custodial mom, and doing who knows what with the new pregnant wife. Meanwhile there was a deeply disturbed dad that kept projecting and posting the craziest conclusions. The thinking is so polluted. Sad is the perfect word to describe the entire dynamic. There are many contributions but it would be great to hear of men being accountable and responsible. Women don’t have an issue with identifying their issue and working through it. Men? It isn’t even something they seek or share or suggest in others. Not just here, but broadly in society. US and those foreign to us.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I do think it goes back to a strong father figure or other male role model.

Nope. And honestly the misogyny is strong in this statement.

Not at all. It’s well known that if you’re abused by your parents, you’re likely to do the same, unless you actively try to prevent it. This is similar. If you watch your father being an a-hole, you’re conditioned to believe all men are like that.

And if you are a guy you end up like him under stress

No, you’re likely oblivious to all of the ways that the abuse/rejection/insecurity manifests. You don’t become a shabby man under stress. You stress over nothing because you’re a shabby man. It may be more noticeable under stress because it is more distinct and you become regretful and self critical. Healing work is always for you. Physician, heal thyself.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The sad thing is that if you speak up and ask for better treatment in a relationship, the guy may decide you're too much trouble or high maintenance and go find a different woman who thinks he's awesome just the way he is. And holding out for the great guy may mean you end up alone.

Correct. We all need to understand that it is better to be alone than to be with someone that treats you like crap. People seek out what they are comfortable with, an abuser and a person that is used to being abused with find each other in a crowd. This is all learned behavior but it is a cycle of abuse/poor treatment that is hard to break.

+1

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:1. They're stupid
2. They're inexperienced with men
3. Low self esteem
4. A combo of any of the above three

And 5. They watched their dad or male family members treat women badly.

I am none of these things! And my dad is great. I have probably a few things that are different that I could identify:

1. It came on gradually over years and he has many good qualities and often treated me great.
2. My parents had a good relationship, married for 70 years, and I just don’t think I really had a good reference point for recognizing red flags.
3. I’m a really easy-going forgiving person who is also a hard worker. People always said relationships are hard work so I just kept working harder! Also, I’m pretty confident and independent so felt I could handle or make up for his shortcomings.
4. There were a variety of health and circumstantial issues that led me to excuse behavior that I should not have.
5. Unplanned pregnancies and special needs children—turns out I am crazy fertile and the smallest birth control slip will get me pregnant.
Anyway, I think we do women a disservice when we say that only damaged women end up with men who treat them poorly.

Refusing to date assholes doesn't suddenly make good men rain out of the sky.

Anonymous wrote:Have you read any of the threads on here about how if a woman isn't married (even if divorced) by 35 then there must be something inherently wrong or broken about her? There are people who believe any man is better than no man.

This and a large number of women ignore the red flags in order to have a man.

Have you read any of the threads on here about how if a woman isn't married (even if divorced) by 35 then there must be something inherently wrong or broken about her? There are people who believe any man is better than no man.