Anonymous
01/07/2021 13:37
Subject: Re:So many who don’t like/respect parents
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:But if a person doesn't like or respect their parents, isn't that the parents' fault? I'm always reading on here about how children need to be taught to be respectful and grateful, and that parents who don't instill these value in their kids are falling down on the job. So it stands to reason that if you come across an adult who doesn't respect her parents, it must be because her parents failed at parenting, in which case... doesn't she have a reason to dislike and disrespect her parents?
Sorry being a bad parent has consequences, I guess? That's life.
Not always. See example above.
Sometimes with narcissists, one sibling is the golden child, and another is the scapegoat. The golden child grows up being supported, praised, loved, encouraged, so they have a completely different child/parent relationship. The scapegoat is told they are inadequate, sometimes even neglected. There are many, many posts here with people hurt by the discrepancy, which then extends to grandkids.
Of course this can happen. That doesn't mean all rocky parent-child relationships are a result of bad parenting.
DP but while I wouldn't chalk it up to "bad parenting", I do think the parents bear responsibility for all rocky parent-child relationships. Not sole responsibility -- once the children are adults, they can play a role as well. But there's just no such thing as a blameless parent whose children inexplicably hate or resent her. First, there are no blameless parents -- all parents muck it up somewhere. But also, parents have so much authority over their kids for so long. If, after 18 years, your kid is susceptible to being convinced that you are the source of all their problems, then you made some serious errors somewhere. No child of a loving, supportive, non-abusive family suddenly decides they are going to reject it. That's the thing all humans everyone crave (safety, acceptance) and we are hardwired to seek it out.
Not trying to make anyone feel guilty here, I just think people should be realistic. If you're relationship with your adult child is very challenged, you should spend some time looking inward rather than simply blaming others. The fact that so many people in this thread are instinctively blaming their children/siblings for being completely unreasonable, with very little acknowledgment of where it's coming from, is itself evidence of some dysfunctional dynamics.
Anonymous
01/07/2021 13:35
Subject: So many who don’t like/respect parents
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:and cut them off. And many people say that’s ok.
What happens when you don’t like who your children turned out to be?
Good question. I find it interesting that many self-absorbed adults claim their parents are "narcissists" yet they are actually more guilty of narcissistic behavior: "My parent doesn't admire what I do, doesn't think the way I do, doesn't behave the way I want, doesn't realize how important MY life is, do not understand how unique my challenges are, refuse to recognize my analysis of their mental health problems, and on top of that - expects me to feel sympathy because they are getting older, lonely and want their children to care about what happens to them."
+1
Anonymous
01/07/2021 13:29
Subject: Re:So many who don’t like/respect parents
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:But if a person doesn't like or respect their parents, isn't that the parents' fault? I'm always reading on here about how children need to be taught to be respectful and grateful, and that parents who don't instill these value in their kids are falling down on the job. So it stands to reason that if you come across an adult who doesn't respect her parents, it must be because her parents failed at parenting, in which case... doesn't she have a reason to dislike and disrespect her parents?
Sorry being a bad parent has consequences, I guess? That's life.
Not always. See example above.
Sometimes with narcissists, one sibling is the golden child, and another is the scapegoat. The golden child grows up being supported, praised, loved, encouraged, so they have a completely different child/parent relationship. The scapegoat is told they are inadequate, sometimes even neglected. There are many, many posts here with people hurt by the discrepancy, which then extends to grandkids.
Of course this can happen. That doesn't mean all rocky parent-child relationships are a result of bad parenting.
Where did I say it was? You (or PP) said, see example above. The example talked about two sisters who had different experiences with the same mother. I gave an example of why two children raised in the same household might have two very different opinions of their parent. I was the grandchild of the scapegoat in the scenario and can tell you that my cousin fondly and tearfully remembers a doting grandma and cuddly sleepovers and treats. I remember a distant, formal woman who barely acknowledged me and didn't even remember my birthday - basically the same way she treated my parent and their sibling as children.
I was referring to the bolded.
Anonymous
01/07/2021 13:22
Subject: Re:So many who don’t like/respect parents
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:But if a person doesn't like or respect their parents, isn't that the parents' fault? I'm always reading on here about how children need to be taught to be respectful and grateful, and that parents who don't instill these value in their kids are falling down on the job. So it stands to reason that if you come across an adult who doesn't respect her parents, it must be because her parents failed at parenting, in which case... doesn't she have a reason to dislike and disrespect her parents?
Sorry being a bad parent has consequences, I guess? That's life.
Not always. See example above.
Sometimes with narcissists, one sibling is the golden child, and another is the scapegoat. The golden child grows up being supported, praised, loved, encouraged, so they have a completely different child/parent relationship. The scapegoat is told they are inadequate, sometimes even neglected. There are many, many posts here with people hurt by the discrepancy, which then extends to grandkids.
Of course this can happen. That doesn't mean all rocky parent-child relationships are a result of bad parenting.
Where did I say it was? You (or PP) said, see example above. The example talked about two sisters who had different experiences with the same mother. I gave an example of why two children raised in the same household might have two very different opinions of their parent. I was the grandchild of the scapegoat in the scenario and can tell you that my cousin fondly and tearfully remembers a doting grandma and cuddly sleepovers and treats. I remember a distant, formal woman who barely acknowledged me and didn't even remember my birthday - basically the same way she treated my parent and their sibling as children.
Anonymous
01/07/2021 13:15
Subject: Re:So many who don’t like/respect parents
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:But if a person doesn't like or respect their parents, isn't that the parents' fault? I'm always reading on here about how children need to be taught to be respectful and grateful, and that parents who don't instill these value in their kids are falling down on the job. So it stands to reason that if you come across an adult who doesn't respect her parents, it must be because her parents failed at parenting, in which case... doesn't she have a reason to dislike and disrespect her parents?
Sorry being a bad parent has consequences, I guess? That's life.
Not always. See example above.
Sometimes with narcissists, one sibling is the golden child, and another is the scapegoat. The golden child grows up being supported, praised, loved, encouraged, so they have a completely different child/parent relationship. The scapegoat is told they are inadequate, sometimes even neglected. There are many, many posts here with people hurt by the discrepancy, which then extends to grandkids.
Of course this can happen. That doesn't mean all rocky parent-child relationships are a result of bad parenting.
Anonymous
01/07/2021 12:54
Subject: Re:So many who don’t like/respect parents
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:But if a person doesn't like or respect their parents, isn't that the parents' fault? I'm always reading on here about how children need to be taught to be respectful and grateful, and that parents who don't instill these value in their kids are falling down on the job. So it stands to reason that if you come across an adult who doesn't respect her parents, it must be because her parents failed at parenting, in which case... doesn't she have a reason to dislike and disrespect her parents?
Sorry being a bad parent has consequences, I guess? That's life.
Not always. See example above.
Sometimes with narcissists, one sibling is the golden child, and another is the scapegoat. The golden child grows up being supported, praised, loved, encouraged, so they have a completely different child/parent relationship. The scapegoat is told they are inadequate, sometimes even neglected. There are many, many posts here with people hurt by the discrepancy, which then extends to grandkids.
This, 100%. And it can happen even if someone isn't. full blown narcissist. My dad may be a narcissist, but my mom is not. However, they have a golden child dynamic with my sister and none of them can see it because they are very locked into these enmeshed, codependent patterns with each other. They have all bought into a narrative where my sister deserves support and attention, and her children deserve the same, more than other members of the family. And it the reasons for the discrepancy shift as necessary to maintain the status quo. Sometimes my sister and her family get more support and attention because they are more virtuous than the rest of us, they are better people, and they've earned it. But other times, it's because they have it harder, because they've been dealt a bad hand. It doesn't really matter what the reason is, and it doesn't really matter what the rest of us do or what we are dealing with. Our assigned role is as a support player in a drama in which my sister is the central character.
So yes, watching my sister constantly manipulate my parents into giving her money, material goods, attention, and emotional support makes me respect my parents less. And the fact that they will often tell me and my other siblings that our both our successes and our struggles are irrelevant because our sister's life must take precedence makes me dislike them.
You reap what you sow.
This is my baby sister. My parents created this story for themselves when we were kids, that my sister needed them more and deserved more of everything because she was a lot younger than us and because my parents were older when they had her. I once tried to gently explain that it’s hard to be expected to focus so much time and energy on my sister, even when she’s fine, when I don’t always get family support even when I’m going through something very challenging. My sister and mom told me that my sister “deserves” special status because when our parents die, she will be younger and therefore miss out on more. Keep in mind my sister is in her 30s, married, and with a kid. So it’s not like she’s going to be orphaned when our parents pass. But apparently even when we are grieving our parents, her grief will matter more.
Anonymous
01/07/2021 12:44
Subject: Re:So many who don’t like/respect parents
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:But if a person doesn't like or respect their parents, isn't that the parents' fault? I'm always reading on here about how children need to be taught to be respectful and grateful, and that parents who don't instill these value in their kids are falling down on the job. So it stands to reason that if you come across an adult who doesn't respect her parents, it must be because her parents failed at parenting, in which case... doesn't she have a reason to dislike and disrespect her parents?
Sorry being a bad parent has consequences, I guess? That's life.
Not always. See example above.
Sometimes with narcissists, one sibling is the golden child, and another is the scapegoat. The golden child grows up being supported, praised, loved, encouraged, so they have a completely different child/parent relationship. The scapegoat is told they are inadequate, sometimes even neglected. There are many, many posts here with people hurt by the discrepancy, which then extends to grandkids.
This, 100%. And it can happen even if someone isn't. full blown narcissist. My dad may be a narcissist, but my mom is not. However, they have a golden child dynamic with my sister and none of them can see it because they are very locked into these enmeshed, codependent patterns with each other. They have all bought into a narrative where my sister deserves support and attention, and her children deserve the same, more than other members of the family. And it the reasons for the discrepancy shift as necessary to maintain the status quo. Sometimes my sister and her family get more support and attention because they are more virtuous than the rest of us, they are better people, and they've earned it. But other times, it's because they have it harder, because they've been dealt a bad hand. It doesn't really matter what the reason is, and it doesn't really matter what the rest of us do or what we are dealing with. Our assigned role is as a support player in a drama in which my sister is the central character.
So yes, watching my sister constantly manipulate my parents into giving her money, material goods, attention, and emotional support makes me respect my parents less. And the fact that they will often tell me and my other siblings that our both our successes and our struggles are irrelevant because our sister's life must take precedence makes me dislike them.
You reap what you sow.
Anonymous
01/07/2021 12:34
Subject: Re:So many who don’t like/respect parents
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:But if a person doesn't like or respect their parents, isn't that the parents' fault? I'm always reading on here about how children need to be taught to be respectful and grateful, and that parents who don't instill these value in their kids are falling down on the job. So it stands to reason that if you come across an adult who doesn't respect her parents, it must be because her parents failed at parenting, in which case... doesn't she have a reason to dislike and disrespect her parents?
Sorry being a bad parent has consequences, I guess? That's life.
Not always. See example above.
Sometimes with narcissists, one sibling is the golden child, and another is the scapegoat. The golden child grows up being supported, praised, loved, encouraged, so they have a completely different child/parent relationship. The scapegoat is told they are inadequate, sometimes even neglected. There are many, many posts here with people hurt by the discrepancy, which then extends to grandkids.
Anonymous
01/07/2021 12:26
Subject: So many who don’t like/respect parents
My parents were both alcoholics and there was emotional and physical abuse in my home. I’m breaking the cycle with my own family. Part of that requires keeping a safe emotional distance from my family. Boundaries are necessary and no one deserves respect just because they contributed to your DNA.
Anonymous
01/07/2021 11:22
Subject: Re:So many who don’t like/respect parents
Anonymous wrote:But if a person doesn't like or respect their parents, isn't that the parents' fault? I'm always reading on here about how children need to be taught to be respectful and grateful, and that parents who don't instill these value in their kids are falling down on the job. So it stands to reason that if you come across an adult who doesn't respect her parents, it must be because her parents failed at parenting, in which case... doesn't she have a reason to dislike and disrespect her parents?
Sorry being a bad parent has consequences, I guess? That's life.
Not always. See example above.
Anonymous
01/07/2021 11:06
Subject: So many who don’t like/respect parents
My adult offspring is free to abandon me.
Anonymous
01/07/2021 10:29
Subject: Re:So many who don’t like/respect parents
But if a person doesn't like or respect their parents, isn't that the parents' fault? I'm always reading on here about how children need to be taught to be respectful and grateful, and that parents who don't instill these value in their kids are falling down on the job. So it stands to reason that if you come across an adult who doesn't respect her parents, it must be because her parents failed at parenting, in which case... doesn't she have a reason to dislike and disrespect her parents?
Sorry being a bad parent has consequences, I guess? That's life.
Sorry being a bad parent has consequences, I guess? That's life.
Anonymous
01/07/2021 10:05
Subject: So many who don’t like/respect parents
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:All of my friends these days believe their mothers are “narcissists.” I nod along but it’s absolutely silly.
+1
Curious, what started this trend? A particular book or article? My sister is like this about our mother and I was really surprised when I heard her make these claims...
One of my sisters and her DH read a book called "Toxic Parents" about 20 years ago which confirmed in their minds that they were raised by horrible people. I can't really address BIL's upbringing, but my older sister and I have listened to the rants of our other sister and wonder if we were raised in the same house. Her list of grievances is LONG. Older sister and I love and like our mother (father is long dead), and accept that while she wasn't perfect, did her best and was also a good parent much of the time.
And BTW, the toxic shock sis has prickly relationships with her own children. She complains about them not measuring up. She of course has ongoing issues with of course the ILs, various neighbors, the public school system in her town, a former and present boss and the woman who delivers her mail.
Same here. Mother has been dead for 20 years and one sister STILL rants about how awful she was. This sister has similar complaints and issues with just about everyone at some point. She claims everyone mistreats HER and is unfair to HER and abuses HER and her "good" nature. We can't go out in public with her because she is notoriously nasty, loud and unreasonable to wait staff in restaurants, clerks in stores, and just about anyone she runs across.
But if you ask her, she will tell you how awful and abusive her mother was. It's in her own mind, which she should have addressed with professional help years ago.
Anonymous
01/06/2021 00:21
Subject: So many who don’t like/respect parents
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:All of my friends these days believe their mothers are “narcissists.” I nod along but it’s absolutely silly.
+1
Curious, what started this trend? A particular book or article? My sister is like this about our mother and I was really surprised when I heard her make these claims...
One of my sisters and her DH read a book called "Toxic Parents" about 20 years ago which confirmed in their minds that they were raised by horrible people. I can't really address BIL's upbringing, but my older sister and I have listened to the rants of our other sister and wonder if we were raised in the same house. Her list of grievances is LONG. Older sister and I love and like our mother (father is long dead), and accept that while she wasn't perfect, did her best and was also a good parent much of the time.
And BTW, the toxic shock sis has prickly relationships with her own children. She complains about them not measuring up. She of course has ongoing issues with of course the ILs, various neighbors, the public school system in her town, a former and present boss and the woman who delivers her mail.
Anonymous
01/05/2021 13:27
Subject: So many who don’t like/respect parents
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:and cut them off. And many people say that’s ok.
What happens when you don’t like who your children turned out to be?
Good question. I find it interesting that many self-absorbed adults claim their parents are "narcissists" yet they are actually more guilty of narcissistic behavior: "My parent doesn't admire what I do, doesn't think the way I do, doesn't behave the way I want, doesn't realize how important MY life is, do not understand how unique my challenges are, refuse to recognize my analysis of their mental health problems, and on top of that - expects me to feel sympathy because they are getting older, lonely and want their children to care about what happens to them."
+1000