Anonymous
11/02/2020 12:54
Subject: Soccer-What is a "natural defender"?
Anonymous wrote:Any parent or kid who doesn't like to defend will eventually find their smug asses on the bench.....in this day and age there is no room for lazy defending if you want to be a future pro or want a college scholarship...A real soccer player is a natural competitor so by default a complete soccer player is a" natural defender"...Have you noticed that the world's best defenders somewhere along the line played in a midfield position like wing earlier in their career?...eventually if the younger defenders do not get personal training or politic their way to the midfield they will be behind once they hit the u14 level. They simply will not have gotten enough touches on the ball IN PRACTICE OR THE GAMES....and the average midfielder will ride the bench because there are only so many midfielder positions....(again a ton midfielders in the DMV refuse to play in the back because their parents have drilled into them that the backline positions are trash...smh)...WELL one man's trash is another mans's treasure.. In fact, alot of times the players with the most potential never get the development that they need because the coaches park them in the back and never get them developed...because on the next level you have to somewhat athletic and skillful/technical...you will not cut the mustard if you lack one or the other. I am talking Women's Division one soccer...
There is an art to playing defense and a complete soccer player has the competitive nature that pushes them to naturally defend. This is a non-negotiable understanding...if you have noticed the backline players are some of your most valuable players at the higher levels...? The fact that most kids that play soccer in this area lack the athletic ability to play at the next level destroys the possibility of the best potential players going far because they are stuck in the back during their developmental years...The midfield and forward positions are so jammed packed many are forced to ride the bench or play defense or quit as they get older
World class defenders in fact world class players hardly ever play one position when they are younger....they are either pushed to the back or have no choice....BUT the one thing that midfielders have; if they are athletic enough, are good technical skills....
BOTTOM LINE...NATURAL DEFENDERS HAVE that "DAWG" IN THEM; something that alot of the teams need more of..they come with a blue collar mentality......Some of these coaches are selfish and would rather win than develop...if they took the best athletes and made them play a midfield position part of the time they would be some of your best soccer players but unfortunately this hardly happens..and the USA will eventually suffer on the women’s side and the Men are definitely suffering as we speak....Good athletes are normally your best natural defenders but ironically have a hard time developing to the best soccer players and this is sad.....NATURAL DEFENDERS ARE THE SALT OF TH
1,000,000% YES.
We have been having this dialogue with our son's team. He unarguably has the best ball skill and field IQ on the team. They put him in Center D and found nobody could get past him and he was so calm and collected. Any other player they put back there---the team would collapse, get scored on and back he went, The other parents would argue he needs to play there.
The kid for past 2 years was not getting opportunity elsewhere. He came from a team where he was a top scorer/attacker. Kid frustrated. His team can't finish but they won't take him out of back because the score would be even larger against them. The few times (rare) he's moved up---he's scored a hat trick on what prior was a 0-0 game for the majority.
We have told them we are looking in our kid developing EVERYWHERE. It is in his best interest and they have been drumming any of the versatility he had right out of him. Less tourches, less dribbling and less opportunity to practice finishing.
We are done this year and going elsewhere. He's the kid that will 1 v1 and speed dribble and finishing contest at large camps--yet for whatever reason since no kid can fit back there for them there he goes (not.our.problem.) They'd rather come out defensively every gdamn game instead of putting up somebody that could finish. If you put goals in the net initially, you would worry less about getting scored on at the start of the game. Fine, move him back after the team is up and then move him back.
Anonymous
11/02/2020 11:22
Subject: Soccer-What is a "natural defender"?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Weirdly, my son is a pretty good wing in futsal, but it doesn't seem to translate to soccer. He plays defense and midfield (the coach rotates the kids within certain parameters, not fully) in soccer. I'm not sure why the futsal wing skills don't translate over onto the larger field, but they don't.
It could be his teammates (assuming they are different). A player who makes very quick decisions, has a good first touch and passes accurately (which would make for a good futsal player) is not effective, and therefore would not appear to be a "good" player to the casual observer, if his teammates are not capable of doing the same.
+1 right
Anonymous
11/02/2020 10:55
Subject: Re:Soccer-What is a "natural defender"?
It's a phrase to get parents to part with their money so 10 year old larla can train with higher lever kids.
Real meaning: more aggressive, not afraid of contact with another player, willing to sacrifice body to stop the ball, things like that.
Maybe in some cases, yes, but not all. The reason I say that is that I am a team manager, and our coach asked me to help get a kid whose parents cannot pay at all into our club so that he could play defender for our team. It was a giant PITA (dad had to get a letter from employer etc.) but we got it done. So there was clearly some motivation other than money for this kid.
Anonymous
11/02/2020 10:45
Subject: Re:Soccer-What is a "natural defender"?
Weirdly, my son is a pretty good wing in futsal, but it doesn't seem to translate to soccer. He plays defense and midfield (the coach rotates the kids within certain parameters, not fully) in soccer. I'm not sure why the futsal wing skills don't translate over onto the larger field, but they don't.
It could be his teammates (assuming they are different). A player who makes very quick decisions, has a good first touch and passes accurately (which would make for a good futsal player) is not effective, and therefore would not appear to be a "good" player to the casual observer, if his teammates are not capable of doing the same.
Yes, they are different.
Anonymous
11/02/2020 10:41
Subject: Soccer-What is a "natural defender"?
It's a phrase to get parents to part with their money so 10 year old larla can train with higher lever kids.
Real meaning: more aggressive, not afraid of contact with another player, willing to sacrifice body to stop the ball, things like that.
Real meaning: more aggressive, not afraid of contact with another player, willing to sacrifice body to stop the ball, things like that.
Anonymous
11/02/2020 10:39
Subject: Soccer-What is a "natural defender"?
Anonymous wrote:Weirdly, my son is a pretty good wing in futsal, but it doesn't seem to translate to soccer. He plays defense and midfield (the coach rotates the kids within certain parameters, not fully) in soccer. I'm not sure why the futsal wing skills don't translate over onto the larger field, but they don't.
It could be his teammates (assuming they are different). A player who makes very quick decisions, has a good first touch and passes accurately (which would make for a good futsal player) is not effective, and therefore would not appear to be a "good" player to the casual observer, if his teammates are not capable of doing the same.
Anonymous
11/02/2020 10:29
Subject: Soccer-What is a "natural defender"?
Weirdly, my son is a pretty good wing in futsal, but it doesn't seem to translate to soccer. He plays defense and midfield (the coach rotates the kids within certain parameters, not fully) in soccer. I'm not sure why the futsal wing skills don't translate over onto the larger field, but they don't.
Anonymous
11/02/2020 09:48
Subject: Re:Soccer-What is a "natural defender"?
My son is a natural defender but prefers offense (currently u14). Second fastest on his team after one of strikers, currently playing center back. Has always had a knack for cutting off the angles, and only player on his team that can get back fast enough to run down an opposing player on a breakaway. He also plays a pretty good middie, both center and wing.
Anonymous
11/02/2020 09:37
Subject: Soccer-What is a "natural defender"?
Anonymous wrote:This is all crap rotate the kids....
Agreed.
your best players at u10 are not your best players 4 or 5 years down the road.
This is a questionable statement, and revolves around how you define "best". It is certainly true that things can change, and kids do physically develop at different speeds and reach different ceilings. BUT - in my experience there is not all that much change.
The best athletes largely remain the best athletes and the most skilled ball players largely remain the most skilled ball players, and the kids with the greatest vision remain the kids with the greatest vision. The latter skills assume greater weight in determining a player's effectiveness on the field as the kids get older.
The athletic players obviously have the highest ceiling
I disagree with this. Ball skills and vision are not skills which can be taught any more than athleticism can be taught. Just like athleticism these skills have starting points and theoretical ceilings. A kid who practices hard and receives good coaching will reach his ceiling or close to it - but he will not exceed it. A kid may be and explosive athlete - but it is unlikley - no matter how much he practises - that he will ever achieve Messi's ability with the ball at his feet, or de Bruyne's vision and accuracy passing. Another kid may be able to achieve a much higher ceiling with his passing but lack speed. Yes - he can train and improve his speed and explosiveness but he will be limited in that area just as his more explosive counterpart is never able to stop passing to the other team.
How about taking the athletes and make them play in the midfield positions yes the anthithesis of how soccer is played here in the DMV (especially on the girls side)....make the athletic defenders get their touches develeoped and place them back into the back third...there is nothing wrong with playing in the back BUT when you keep them back there they will never reach their potential.
I agree with what you are suggesting. Yes - players should rotate positions. This is also why it is important to play eleven-man football and play the ball out of the back - because it helps all players to develop those skills no matter where they are on the field.
But I don't think this will completely have the effect you hope for. All the speed demons will not magically acquire skills that are just "waiting to emerge". Yes - the fast, strong kids will improve - so that is a good thing. But even so, in many cases, they will simply reach their ceiling and discover it's not that high.
And FWIW - in my experience - at early ages coaches pick forwards for dribbling ability and speed (shooting ability is usually a luxury), and midfielders for the ability to dribble and pass. Full backs are picked primarily for speed and ball skills are less important. Central defenders are picked for courage, size/strength and the ability to pass. Really weak players are usually hidden on the wing because they cannot do all that much damage (which doesn't mean that all wingers are weak - just that if you are playing rec and have a kid who is going to give the ball away every time they touch it, you play them on the wing) - and you can put players without much in the way of ball skill at full back provided they are fast and not scared to tackle.
Anonymous
11/02/2020 09:07
Subject: Soccer-What is a "natural defender"?
This is all crap rotate the kids....your best players at u10 are not your best players 4 or 5 years down the road. You have players who clearly lack any kind of explosiveness masking and hiding in the middle of the field. The athletic players obviously have the highest ceiling but because some coaches cannot coach and only coach with book they place a cap on their players with the highest potential and keep them in a sweeper positon. How about taking the athletes and make them play in the midfield positions yes the anthithesis of how soccer is played here in the DMV (especially on the girls side)....make the athletic defenders get their touches develeoped and place them back into the back third...there is nothing wrong with playing in the back BUT when you keep them back there they will never reach their potential.
Anonymous
11/02/2020 08:10
Subject: Soccer-What is a "natural defender"?
There seems to be alot of different levels of soccer acumen on this thread...slow players belong in another sport...after a while the only place that you can hide them is on the bench...when you play real soccer you have to match your best defenders with the opposing teams best offensive players............think of Deion Sanders against Jerry Rice...to all of the novices on this thread. If a slow player is on the field put them in the middle of the field....but like I said there is no place for them unless their mind is fast
Anonymous
11/01/2020 21:41
Subject: Soccer-What is a "natural defender"?
Any parent or kid who doesn't like to defend will eventually find their smug asses on the bench .....in this day and age there is no room for lazy defending if you want to be a future pro or want a college scholarship...A real soccer player is a natural competitor so by default a complete soccer player is a" natural defender"...Have you noticed that the world's best defenders somewhere along the line played in a midfield position like wing earlier in their career?...eventually if the younger defenders do not get personal training or politic their way to the midfield they will be behind once they hit the u14 level. They simply will not have gotten enough touches on the ball IN PRACTICE OR THE GAMES....and the average midfielder will ride the bench because there are only so many midfielder positions....(again a ton midfielders in the DMV refuse to play in the back because their parents have drilled into them that the backline positions are trash...smh)...WELL one man's trash is another mans's treasure.. In fact, alot of times the players with the most potential never get the development that they need because the coaches park them in the back and never get them developed...because on the next level you have to somewhat athletic and skillful/technical...you will not cut the mustard if you lack one or the other. I am talking Women's Division one soccer...
There is an art to playing defense and a complete soccer player has the competitive nature that pushes them to naturally defend. This is a non-negotiable understanding...if you have noticed the backline players are some of your most valuable players at the higher levels...? The fact that most kids that play soccer in this area lack the athletic ability to play at the next level destroys the possibility of the best potential players going far because they are stuck in the back during their developmental years...The midfield and forward positions are so jammed packed many are forced to ride the bench or play defense or quit as they get older
World class defenders in fact world class players hardly ever play one position when they are younger....they are either pushed to the back or have no choice....BUT the one thing that midfielders have; if they are athletic enough, are good technical skills....
BOTTOM LINE...NATURAL DEFENDERS HAVE that "DAWG" IN THEM; something that alot of the teams need more of..they come with a blue collar mentality......Some of these coaches are selfish and would rather win than develop...if they took the best athletes and made them play a midfield position part of the time they would be some of your best soccer players but unfortunately this hardly happens..and the USA will eventually suffer on the women’s side and the Men are definitely suffering as we speak....Good athletes are normally your best natural defenders but ironically have a hard time developing to the best soccer players and this is sad.....NATURAL DEFENDERS ARE THE SALT OF TH
.....in this day and age there is no room for lazy defending if you want to be a future pro or want a college scholarship...A real soccer player is a natural competitor so by default a complete soccer player is a" natural defender"...Have you noticed that the world's best defenders somewhere along the line played in a midfield position like wing earlier in their career?...eventually if the younger defenders do not get personal training or politic their way to the midfield they will be behind once they hit the u14 level. They simply will not have gotten enough touches on the ball IN PRACTICE OR THE GAMES....and the average midfielder will ride the bench because there are only so many midfielder positions....(again a ton midfielders in the DMV refuse to play in the back because their parents have drilled into them that the backline positions are trash...smh)...WELL one man's trash is another mans's treasure.. In fact, alot of times the players with the most potential never get the development that they need because the coaches park them in the back and never get them developed...because on the next level you have to somewhat athletic and skillful/technical...you will not cut the mustard if you lack one or the other. I am talking Women's Division one soccer...
There is an art to playing defense and a complete soccer player has the competitive nature that pushes them to naturally defend. This is a non-negotiable understanding...if you have noticed the backline players are some of your most valuable players at the higher levels...? The fact that most kids that play soccer in this area lack the athletic ability to play at the next level destroys the possibility of the best potential players going far because they are stuck in the back during their developmental years...The midfield and forward positions are so jammed packed many are forced to ride the bench or play defense or quit as they get older
World class defenders in fact world class players hardly ever play one position when they are younger....they are either pushed to the back or have no choice....BUT the one thing that midfielders have; if they are athletic enough, are good technical skills....
BOTTOM LINE...NATURAL DEFENDERS HAVE that "DAWG" IN THEM; something that alot of the teams need more of..they come with a blue collar mentality......Some of these coaches are selfish and would rather win than develop...if they took the best athletes and made them play a midfield position part of the time they would be some of your best soccer players but unfortunately this hardly happens..and the USA will eventually suffer on the women’s side and the Men are definitely suffering as we speak....Good athletes are normally your best natural defenders but ironically have a hard time developing to the best soccer players and this is sad.....NATURAL DEFENDERS ARE THE SALT OF TH
Anonymous
11/01/2020 20:00
Subject: Soccer-What is a "natural defender"?
Anonymous wrote:a slower, bigger kid usually
Maybe until U10 but after that a defender must be:
1. As quick as the offensive wings (think Safety to Wide Receiver in football)
2. Able to read the field and flow of the game
3. Smart enough not to foul but prevent offense
4. Able to never take credit for a win but always take blame for a loss
5. Not get frustrated for being scored on. Must have a stable temperament during the game no matter what happens.
6. Not afraid of physical contact
7. Technically solid, meaning does not lose the ball, and makes accurate passes
Losing the ball as a defender has a much bigger impact than losing the ball as a forward or mid-fielder because it means a lost game.
Anonymous
11/01/2020 18:18
Subject: Re:Soccer-What is a "natural defender"?
Oh Jesus, of course some jerk has to post and put on airs. The best defenders of course have speed. But, when you are putting together a team of U13 or U14 kids, sometimes you don't get a 100 percent crop of the top athletes. Our two defenders are slower compared to our wings and midfielders, but they are both big, aggressive kids, so it works out fine. I am sure they do their job better than my son, who is only 80 lbs at 13 years old, could.
Our weakest players U13 are hidden on the wing. Not at same time—and sometimes one of them at outside back. Anyone in the middle is a fast/skilled smart player: Center D; Center Mids & Striker. They have the best touches and fast decision making/move ball quickly.
Hmm. Our wings are good in terms of being fast and aggressive. One of them gets more yellow cards than he ought to because he can be reckless, but he is far from our weakest player.
Anonymous
11/01/2020 18:14
Subject: Re:Soccer-What is a "natural defender"?
What age does all of this start (boys specifically) ? Because when you look online at youth sites, they all say put your worse players in wing or defender, which gives the defender position a bad name, or seems to be looked down upon.
Really? I have seen a lot of recommendations to play them at wing, but not defense. Defense may be an ok place to put a player who is flawed in terms of speed, but not a bad player.
A defender that doesn’t need speed...hmmmmmm. You people are interesting.
This board is so American. Sigh
So where do Ajax and Barcelona put their slowest players?
(I agree that speed is very much an asset for defenders, but I just like deflating people who put on airs about how much better things are in whatever league they watch / played in / live vicariously through.)
They probably put them at holding mid. The problem here is making a one size fits all statement about where you “have” to play slower players, as if that’s the only attribute that players possess
You have some real reading comprehension issues. No one said you "had" to put slower players in defense. They said it was an ok place to put a kid that might be slower. Or are you just looking to start an argument for no reason?