Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The only persuasive answer I have heard (from my DH who grew up Catholic and also studied Buddhism) is that God allows suffering to teach us compassion and empathy. Only if you have experienced suffering can you relate to those who are presently suffering and do "good" things to help them.

There is also the free will explanation (i.e., people choose to inflect suffering on others) but, to me, that is not fully persuasive. Free will does not account for things that are outside human control, like children dying of cancer or natural disasters.

This question is THE major impediment to my faith. Either God is all powerful and somewhat apathetic or sadistic to allow profound suffering, or God is not all powerful. Both things cannot be true. So I really, really struggle with this and don't have a good answer.

I’ve struggled horribly with my faith since my husband died suddenly of a rare cancer. He spent his adult life practicing medicine and helping others....but alas there was no help for him. He was such a wonderful person. I cannot understand why....why?

I'm sorry for your loss, PP. The Bible does have an answer for this in Isaiah 57:
"The righteous man perishes,
and no one lays it to heart;
devout men are taken away,
while no one understands.
For the righteous man is taken away from calamity;
he enters into peace;
they rest in their beds
who walk in their uprightness."

The Bible addresses it, but hardly answers it. Makes it sound like death is better than life for the "righteous man" and says nothing about ending the good he was doing on earth, removing him before he wanted to leave, or the pain his loved ones experience because he's gone. The focus is on the peace he experiences once dead.

It seems very selfish, unlike the righteous man himself who was doing so much good on Earth. Apparently being selected by God to die and go to heaven early is preferable in God's eyes than helping people while alive.

God could have given him more time to do good on earth before accepting him into heaven for eternity, but chose not to. I bet if God had asked the "righteous man" if he wanted an early ticket to heaven, he would have turned down the offer, but that's not God's way. He acts randomly, as if he doesn't exist.

This is so odd.
Because something acts randomly, it must not exist? Do the fires on the west coast exist?

For that matter, does fire exist at all? Some people say it’s good and helpful, others say it’s dangerous and seemingly random, still others say that while we don’t understand it completely, there are rules that it follows if you get to know it and study it. They may seem unfair and arbitrary, but they are there.
If you had never seen fire, would you believe in it’s existence? Do you think that if you somehow stop believing in it because it doesn’t follow rules you agree with, then it will cease to exist?

This is very dumb logic.

We have evidence of fires, right?

End of argument.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The only persuasive answer I have heard (from my DH who grew up Catholic and also studied Buddhism) is that God allows suffering to teach us compassion and empathy. Only if you have experienced suffering can you relate to those who are presently suffering and do "good" things to help them.

There is also the free will explanation (i.e., people choose to inflect suffering on others) but, to me, that is not fully persuasive. Free will does not account for things that are outside human control, like children dying of cancer or natural disasters.

This question is THE major impediment to my faith. Either God is all powerful and somewhat apathetic or sadistic to allow profound suffering, or God is not all powerful. Both things cannot be true. So I really, really struggle with this and don't have a good answer.

I’ve struggled horribly with my faith since my husband died suddenly of a rare cancer. He spent his adult life practicing medicine and helping others....but alas there was no help for him. He was such a wonderful person. I cannot understand why....why?

I'm sorry for your loss, PP. The Bible does have an answer for this in Isaiah 57:
"The righteous man perishes,
and no one lays it to heart;
devout men are taken away,
while no one understands.
For the righteous man is taken away from calamity;
he enters into peace;
they rest in their beds
who walk in their uprightness."

The Bible addresses it, but hardly answers it. Makes it sound like death is better than life for the "righteous man" and says nothing about ending the good he was doing on earth, removing him before he wanted to leave, or the pain his loved ones experience because he's gone. The focus is on the peace he experiences once dead.

It seems very selfish, unlike the righteous man himself who was doing so much good on Earth. Apparently being selected by God to die and go to heaven early is preferable in God's eyes than helping people while alive.

God could have given him more time to do good on earth before accepting him into heaven for eternity, but chose not to. I bet if God had asked the "righteous man" if he wanted an early ticket to heaven, he would have turned down the offer, but that's not God's way. He acts randomly, as if he doesn't exist.

This is so odd.
Because something acts randomly, it must not exist? Do the fires on the west coast exist?

For that matter, does fire exist at all? Some people say it’s good and helpful, others say it’s dangerous and seemingly random, still others say that while we don’t understand it completely, there are rules that it follows if you get to know it and study it. They may seem unfair and arbitrary, but they are there.
If you had never seen fire, would you believe in it’s existence? Do you think that if you somehow stop believing in it because it doesn’t follow rules you agree with, then it will cease to exist?

This is very dumb logic.

We have evidence of fires, right?

End of argument.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The only persuasive answer I have heard (from my DH who grew up Catholic and also studied Buddhism) is that God allows suffering to teach us compassion and empathy. Only if you have experienced suffering can you relate to those who are presently suffering and do "good" things to help them.

There is also the free will explanation (i.e., people choose to inflect suffering on others) but, to me, that is not fully persuasive. Free will does not account for things that are outside human control, like children dying of cancer or natural disasters.

This question is THE major impediment to my faith. Either God is all powerful and somewhat apathetic or sadistic to allow profound suffering, or God is not all powerful. Both things cannot be true. So I really, really struggle with this and don't have a good answer.

I’ve struggled horribly with my faith since my husband died suddenly of a rare cancer. He spent his adult life practicing medicine and helping others....but alas there was no help for him. He was such a wonderful person. I cannot understand why....why?

I'm sorry for your loss, PP. The Bible does have an answer for this in Isaiah 57:
"The righteous man perishes,
and no one lays it to heart;
devout men are taken away,
while no one understands.
For the righteous man is taken away from calamity;
he enters into peace;
they rest in their beds
who walk in their uprightness."

The Bible addresses it, but hardly answers it. Makes it sound like death is better than life for the "righteous man" and says nothing about ending the good he was doing on earth, removing him before he wanted to leave, or the pain his loved ones experience because he's gone. The focus is on the peace he experiences once dead.

It seems very selfish, unlike the righteous man himself who was doing so much good on Earth. Apparently being selected by God to die and go to heaven early is preferable in God's eyes than helping people while alive.

God could have given him more time to do good on earth before accepting him into heaven for eternity, but chose not to. I bet if God had asked the "righteous man" if he wanted an early ticket to heaven, he would have turned down the offer, but that's not God's way. He acts randomly, as if he doesn't exist.

This is so odd.
Because something acts randomly, it must not exist? Do the fires on the west coast exist?

For that matter, does fire exist at all? Some people say it’s good and helpful, others say it’s dangerous and seemingly random, still others say that while we don’t understand it completely, there are rules that it follows if you get to know it and study it. They may seem unfair and arbitrary, but they are there.
If you had never seen fire, would you believe in it’s existence? Do you think that if you somehow stop believing in it because it doesn’t follow rules you agree with, then it will cease to exist?

This is very dumb logic.

We have evidence of fires, right?

End of argument.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The only persuasive answer I have heard (from my DH who grew up Catholic and also studied Buddhism) is that God allows suffering to teach us compassion and empathy. Only if you have experienced suffering can you relate to those who are presently suffering and do "good" things to help them.

There is also the free will explanation (i.e., people choose to inflect suffering on others) but, to me, that is not fully persuasive. Free will does not account for things that are outside human control, like children dying of cancer or natural disasters.

This question is THE major impediment to my faith. Either God is all powerful and somewhat apathetic or sadistic to allow profound suffering, or God is not all powerful. Both things cannot be true. So I really, really struggle with this and don't have a good answer.

I’ve struggled horribly with my faith since my husband died suddenly of a rare cancer. He spent his adult life practicing medicine and helping others....but alas there was no help for him. He was such a wonderful person. I cannot understand why....why?

I'm sorry for your loss, PP. The Bible does have an answer for this in Isaiah 57:
"The righteous man perishes,
and no one lays it to heart;
devout men are taken away,
while no one understands.
For the righteous man is taken away from calamity;
he enters into peace;
they rest in their beds
who walk in their uprightness."

The Bible addresses it, but hardly answers it. Makes it sound like death is better than life for the "righteous man" and says nothing about ending the good he was doing on earth, removing him before he wanted to leave, or the pain his loved ones experience because he's gone. The focus is on the peace he experiences once dead.

It seems very selfish, unlike the righteous man himself who was doing so much good on Earth. Apparently being selected by God to die and go to heaven early is preferable in God's eyes than helping people while alive.

God could have given him more time to do good on earth before accepting him into heaven for eternity, but chose not to. I bet if God had asked the "righteous man" if he wanted an early ticket to heaven, he would have turned down the offer, but that's not God's way. He acts randomly, as if he doesn't exist.

This is so odd.
Because something acts randomly, it must not exist? Do the fires on the west coast exist?

For that matter, does fire exist at all? Some people say it’s good and helpful, others say it’s dangerous and seemingly random, still others say that while we don’t understand it completely, there are rules that it follows if you get to know it and study it. They may seem unfair and arbitrary, but they are there.
If you had never seen fire, would you believe in it’s existence? Do you think that if you somehow stop believing in it because it doesn’t follow rules you agree with, then it will cease to exist?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The only persuasive answer I have heard (from my DH who grew up Catholic and also studied Buddhism) is that God allows suffering to teach us compassion and empathy. Only if you have experienced suffering can you relate to those who are presently suffering and do "good" things to help them.

There is also the free will explanation (i.e., people choose to inflect suffering on others) but, to me, that is not fully persuasive. Free will does not account for things that are outside human control, like children dying of cancer or natural disasters.

This question is THE major impediment to my faith. Either God is all powerful and somewhat apathetic or sadistic to allow profound suffering, or God is not all powerful. Both things cannot be true. So I really, really struggle with this and don't have a good answer.

I’ve struggled horribly with my faith since my husband died suddenly of a rare cancer. He spent his adult life practicing medicine and helping others....but alas there was no help for him. He was such a wonderful person. I cannot understand why....why?

I'm sorry for your loss, PP. The Bible does have an answer for this in Isaiah 57:
"The righteous man perishes,
and no one lays it to heart;
devout men are taken away,
while no one understands.
For the righteous man is taken away from calamity;
he enters into peace;
they rest in their beds
who walk in their uprightness."

The Bible addresses it, but hardly answers it. Makes it sound like death is better than life for the "righteous man" and says nothing about ending the good he was doing on earth, removing him before he wanted to leave, or the pain his loved ones experience because he's gone. The focus is on the peace he experiences once dead.

It seems very selfish, unlike the righteous man himself who was doing so much good on Earth. Apparently being selected by God to die and go to heaven early is preferable in God's eyes than helping people while alive.

God could have given him more time to do good on earth before accepting him into heaven for eternity, but chose not to. I bet if God had asked the "righteous man" if he wanted an early ticket to heaven, he would have turned down the offer, but that's not God's way. He acts randomly, as if he doesn't exist.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

so the babies who starve to death in Somalia do so to teach us a lesson? And we worship the being doing this? If that's the best explanation, then your God sounds pretty evil

I am not the OP but I want to respond to this.

You presume that God is the cause of starving babies rather than the wicked, evil, and ungodly actions of the Somalis themselves. The Somalis are pirates -- sea-thieves, among other things. God has plainly stated in the bible that if you obey God's commandments you will have life. If you don't:

But if thine heart turn away, so that thou wilt not hear, but shalt be drawn away...I denounce unto you this day, that ye shall surely perish, and that ye shall not prolong your days upon the land --Deuteronomy 30:17

therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live

God gives all people a choice. The Somalis have chosen to be evil and to do evil. And notice God says to choose life so that thy seed may live. Your seed is your babies. It clearly says the babies will die also. Babies grow up to be adults doing the same evil things their parents did.

I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live: That thou mayest love the LORD thy God, and that thou mayest obey his voice, and that thou mayest cleave unto him: for he is thy life, and the length of thy days --Deuteronomy 30:19

Choose Jesus, choose Life. It's a choice. It does not make God evil that he judges and holds people accountable for their actions.
Although all this was directed to the Israelites, it pertains to all nations.

You seem to think the Somalis are these innocent people when they are not. They are slave traders:

The terrorist organization [Al-Shabaab] also enslaved an indeterminate number of young girls and exploited them in sexual servitude.
Source: US Dept. of State, '2019 Trafficking in Persons Report: Somalia'

All the outrage in America is directed at statues of long dead slave owners but hardly anything is said about the Somalis who are engaging in slavery in the 21st century! And you somehow think these Somalis are innocent? That God does not see their wicked deeds the stench of which rises up to the throne of heaven itself?

Are you seriously blaming famine and death of children on the actions of pirates who happen to share a country with them?

You are either a horrible monster, incredibly stupid, or both. There is no hell, but if there were, you would be headed straight for it.

DP but it makes a lot more sense than blaming God.

Because God is blameless? People believe he is all powerful and responsible for all the good things that happen. Why not the bad, as well?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

so the babies who starve to death in Somalia do so to teach us a lesson? And we worship the being doing this? If that's the best explanation, then your God sounds pretty evil

I am not the OP but I want to respond to this.

You presume that God is the cause of starving babies rather than the wicked, evil, and ungodly actions of the Somalis themselves. The Somalis are pirates -- sea-thieves, among other things. God has plainly stated in the bible that if you obey God's commandments you will have life. If you don't:

But if thine heart turn away, so that thou wilt not hear, but shalt be drawn away...I denounce unto you this day, that ye shall surely perish, and that ye shall not prolong your days upon the land --Deuteronomy 30:17

therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live

God gives all people a choice. The Somalis have chosen to be evil and to do evil. And notice God says to choose life so that thy seed may live. Your seed is your babies. It clearly says the babies will die also. Babies grow up to be adults doing the same evil things their parents did.

I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live: That thou mayest love the LORD thy God, and that thou mayest obey his voice, and that thou mayest cleave unto him: for he is thy life, and the length of thy days --Deuteronomy 30:19

Choose Jesus, choose Life. It's a choice. It does not make God evil that he judges and holds people accountable for their actions.
Although all this was directed to the Israelites, it pertains to all nations.

You seem to think the Somalis are these innocent people when they are not. They are slave traders:

The terrorist organization [Al-Shabaab] also enslaved an indeterminate number of young girls and exploited them in sexual servitude.
Source: US Dept. of State, '2019 Trafficking in Persons Report: Somalia'

All the outrage in America is directed at statues of long dead slave owners but hardly anything is said about the Somalis who are engaging in slavery in the 21st century! And you somehow think these Somalis are innocent? That God does not see their wicked deeds the stench of which rises up to the throne of heaven itself?

Are you seriously blaming famine and death of children on the actions of pirates who happen to share a country with them?

You are either a horrible monster, incredibly stupid, or both. There is no hell, but if there were, you would be headed straight for it.

DP but it makes a lot more sense than blaming God.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The only persuasive answer I have heard (from my DH who grew up Catholic and also studied Buddhism) is that God allows suffering to teach us compassion and empathy. Only if you have experienced suffering can you relate to those who are presently suffering and do "good" things to help them.

There is also the free will explanation (i.e., people choose to inflect suffering on others) but, to me, that is not fully persuasive. Free will does not account for things that are outside human control, like children dying of cancer or natural disasters.

This question is THE major impediment to my faith. Either God is all powerful and somewhat apathetic or sadistic to allow profound suffering, or God is not all powerful. Both things cannot be true. So I really, really struggle with this and don't have a good answer.

I’ve struggled horribly with my faith since my husband died suddenly of a rare cancer. He spent his adult life practicing medicine and helping others....but alas there was no help for him. He was such a wonderful person. I cannot understand why....why?

I'm sorry for your loss, PP. The Bible does have an answer for this in Isaiah 57:
"The righteous man perishes,
and no one lays it to heart;
devout men are taken away,
while no one understands.
For the righteous man is taken away from calamity;
he enters into peace;
they rest in their beds
who walk in their uprightness."

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

so the babies who starve to death in Somalia do so to teach us a lesson? And we worship the being doing this? If that's the best explanation, then your God sounds pretty evil

I am not the OP but I want to respond to this.

You presume that God is the cause of starving babies rather than the wicked, evil, and ungodly actions of the Somalis themselves. The Somalis are pirates -- sea-thieves, among other things. God has plainly stated in the bible that if you obey God's commandments you will have life. If you don't:

But if thine heart turn away, so that thou wilt not hear, but shalt be drawn away...I denounce unto you this day, that ye shall surely perish, and that ye shall not prolong your days upon the land --Deuteronomy 30:17

therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live

God gives all people a choice. The Somalis have chosen to be evil and to do evil. And notice God says to choose life so that thy seed may live. Your seed is your babies. It clearly says the babies will die also. Babies grow up to be adults doing the same evil things their parents did.

I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live: That thou mayest love the LORD thy God, and that thou mayest obey his voice, and that thou mayest cleave unto him: for he is thy life, and the length of thy days --Deuteronomy 30:19

Choose Jesus, choose Life. It's a choice. It does not make God evil that he judges and holds people accountable for their actions.
Although all this was directed to the Israelites, it pertains to all nations.

You seem to think the Somalis are these innocent people when they are not. They are slave traders:

The terrorist organization [Al-Shabaab] also enslaved an indeterminate number of young girls and exploited them in sexual servitude.
Source: US Dept. of State, '2019 Trafficking in Persons Report: Somalia'

All the outrage in America is directed at statues of long dead slave owners but hardly anything is said about the Somalis who are engaging in slavery in the 21st century! And you somehow think these Somalis are innocent? That God does not see their wicked deeds the stench of which rises up to the throne of heaven itself?

Are you seriously blaming famine and death of children on the actions of pirates who happen to share a country with them?

You are either a horrible monster, incredibly stupid, or both. There is no hell, but if there were, you would be headed straight for it.

DP but it makes a lot more sense than blaming God.

Anonymous wrote:Come on, the major symbol of Christianity was a common torture device in its day. Yes. Suffering is addressed. Over and over again.

I think the question is, “why does suffering exist for good/innocent people or people who did not choose it?” right? Or are you asking why any unhappiness exists at all?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

so the babies who starve to death in Somalia do so to teach us a lesson? And we worship the being doing this? If that's the best explanation, then your God sounds pretty evil

I am not the OP but I want to respond to this.

You presume that God is the cause of starving babies rather than the wicked, evil, and ungodly actions of the Somalis themselves. The Somalis are pirates -- sea-thieves, among other things. God has plainly stated in the bible that if you obey God's commandments you will have life. If you don't:

But if thine heart turn away, so that thou wilt not hear, but shalt be drawn away...I denounce unto you this day, that ye shall surely perish, and that ye shall not prolong your days upon the land --Deuteronomy 30:17

therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live

God gives all people a choice. The Somalis have chosen to be evil and to do evil. And notice God says to choose life so that thy seed may live. Your seed is your babies. It clearly says the babies will die also. Babies grow up to be adults doing the same evil things their parents did.

I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live: That thou mayest love the LORD thy God, and that thou mayest obey his voice, and that thou mayest cleave unto him: for he is thy life, and the length of thy days --Deuteronomy 30:19

Choose Jesus, choose Life. It's a choice. It does not make God evil that he judges and holds people accountable for their actions.
Although all this was directed to the Israelites, it pertains to all nations.

You seem to think the Somalis are these innocent people when they are not. They are slave traders:

The terrorist organization [Al-Shabaab] also enslaved an indeterminate number of young girls and exploited them in sexual servitude.
Source: US Dept. of State, '2019 Trafficking in Persons Report: Somalia'

All the outrage in America is directed at statues of long dead slave owners but hardly anything is said about the Somalis who are engaging in slavery in the 21st century! And you somehow think these Somalis are innocent? That God does not see their wicked deeds the stench of which rises up to the throne of heaven itself?

Are you seriously blaming famine and death of children on the actions of pirates who happen to share a country with them?

You are either a horrible monster, incredibly stupid, or both. There is no hell, but if there were, you would be headed straight for it.

Anonymous wrote:because he's a Bronze Age myth used to explain an unexplainable world

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The only persuasive answer I have heard (from my DH who grew up Catholic and also studied Buddhism) is that God allows suffering to teach us compassion and empathy. Only if you have experienced suffering can you relate to those who are presently suffering and do "good" things to help them.

There is also the free will explanation (i.e., people choose to inflect suffering on others) but, to me, that is not fully persuasive. Free will does not account for things that are outside human control, like children dying of cancer or natural disasters.

This question is THE major impediment to my faith. Either God is all powerful and somewhat apathetic or sadistic to allow profound suffering, or God is not all powerful. Both things cannot be true. So I really, really struggle with this and don't have a good answer.

I’ve struggled horribly with my faith since my husband died suddenly of a rare cancer. He spent his adult life practicing medicine and helping others....but alas there was no help for him. He was such a wonderful person. I cannot understand why....why?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The only persuasive answer I have heard (from my DH who grew up Catholic and also studied Buddhism) is that God allows suffering to teach us compassion and empathy. Only if you have experienced suffering can you relate to those who are presently suffering and do "good" things to help them.

There is also the free will explanation (i.e., people choose to inflect suffering on others) but, to me, that is not fully persuasive. Free will does not account for things that are outside human control, like children dying of cancer or natural disasters.

This question is THE major impediment to my faith. Either God is all powerful and somewhat apathetic or sadistic to allow profound suffering, or God is not all powerful. Both things cannot be true. So I really, really struggle with this and don't have a good answer.

I’ve struggled horribly with my faith since my husband died suddenly of a rare cancer. He spent his adult life practicing medicine and helping others....but alas there was no help for him. He was such a wonderful person. I cannot understand why....why?

I'm so sorry that you lost your husband this way. I can't think of a religion that promises only good things to good people.

Unfortunately, many good and/or innocent people die regularly of diseases and accidents (think of all the people in the Beirut explosion).

Religion can bring comfort but it can't promise a life of good things to the deserving.