Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:THIS. All the kids tend to get shortchanged without a good cohort of middle-class neighborhood parents onboard to push back against crappy management practices.

You should listen the Nice White Parents Serial Podcast. It is basically about the long history of white parents trying to be saviors.

Also, do you think that schools fail in places with high poverty because of bad management and not, for instance, a whole host of other issues? If only Jack Welsh was running the schools all those poor kids would be at Mann or Lafayette.

You’re sort of close. The point is that by adding the higher achieving group, the school ceases to become as high poverty.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Until parents organize to vote out city council members and DC mayors who could care less if by-right middle and high schools mostly serve neighborhood families, nothing will change much.

Covid will only make the process harder.

Your words make no sense (except to vent on DCUM). The idea of by-right schools (read: inbound preference) is to give parents the opportunity to choose that school. All of those OOB kids are there precisely because IB kids aren't; it is necessarily a zero sum game. There's also an equity problem of tracking kids too early and deploying resources disproportionately to high performers. Should advanced classes have a 14:1 ratio while regular classes are at 35:1? How early is too early to decide a kid is "advanced" vs had a two parent household of graduate and post-graduate educated parents, books, food stable, etc.? If a kid had no advantages should we warehouse them in 7th grade? 6th? 10th?

These are really hard questions and issues. The answers aren't easy and every action has an impact elsewhere. I'm white and rich. I grew up white and rich wanting for nothing. My kids have had every possible advantage. Part of me wanted them in honors classes and doing advanced work in 2nd grade. Part of me doesn't' want them in a classroom with disruptive kids or anyone not at their grade level. But then I remember that I live in DC and send my kids to school here in order for them to have a diverse education and experiences and to interact with people not like them. So I struggle with all of this.

"We should vote them all out" doesn't actually make any sense in this context.

I struggle with nothing and I'm not white. Good schools first, diversity second.

Shocker! Absolute certainty is clearly a sign of a genius at work.

Also, we had for decades in this country and is got us huge education, wage and achievement gap. Some people were OK with that. Some not so much. I guess I know where you come out on that. You're ok if 99% of advanced classes and test-in schools are UMC and white. I'm not.

If you didn't grow up poor and minority, pipe down hon.

Anonymous wrote:This minority Boston Latin and Ivy graduate who grew up in bad news public housing, with an Asian spouse who graduated from Hunter College MS and HS in NYC, says total BS.

Not in fact hard questions or issues.

Create great urban test-in programs to serve advanced kids and reap the ample rewards as a city. A jurisdiction can also serve students who work at grade level, or below it well. These avenues of advance need not be mutually exclusive.

DC public simply lacks ambition for all kids capable of advanced academic work, poor, middle-class and rich. Shame on DC public.

You really want to pick Boston Latin and the Ivys as your hill to die on when it comes to proving out educational outcomes for non-whites? One brother beat the odds, ergo there are no class or race impediments? Wait, is Herman Cain posting from the dead again???

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Until parents organize to vote out city council members and DC mayors who could care less if by-right middle and high schools mostly serve neighborhood families, nothing will change much.

Covid will only make the process harder.

Your words make no sense (except to vent on DCUM). The idea of by-right schools (read: inbound preference) is to give parents the opportunity to choose that school. All of those OOB kids are there precisely because IB kids aren't; it is necessarily a zero sum game. There's also an equity problem of tracking kids too early and deploying resources disproportionately to high performers. Should advanced classes have a 14:1 ratio while regular classes are at 35:1? How early is too early to decide a kid is "advanced" vs had a two parent household of graduate and post-graduate educated parents, books, food stable, etc.? If a kid had no advantages should we warehouse them in 7th grade? 6th? 10th?

These are really hard questions and issues. The answers aren't easy and every action has an impact elsewhere. I'm white and rich. I grew up white and rich wanting for nothing. My kids have had every possible advantage. Part of me wanted them in honors classes and doing advanced work in 2nd grade. Part of me doesn't' want them in a classroom with disruptive kids or anyone not at their grade level. But then I remember that I live in DC and send my kids to school here in order for them to have a diverse education and experiences and to interact with people not like them. So I struggle with all of this.

"We should vote them all out" doesn't actually make any sense in this context.

I struggle with nothing and I'm not white. Good schools first, diversity second.

Shocker! Absolute certainty is clearly a sign of a genius at work.

Also, we had for decades in this country and is got us huge education, wage and achievement gap. Some people were OK with that. Some not so much. I guess I know where you come out on that. You're ok if 99% of advanced classes and test-in schools are UMC and white. I'm not.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Until parents organize to vote out city council members and DC mayors who could care less if by-right middle and high schools mostly serve neighborhood families, nothing will change much.

Covid will only make the process harder.

Your words make no sense (except to vent on DCUM). The idea of by-right schools (read: inbound preference) is to give parents the opportunity to choose that school. All of those OOB kids are there precisely because IB kids aren't; it is necessarily a zero sum game. There's also an equity problem of tracking kids too early and deploying resources disproportionately to high performers. Should advanced classes have a 14:1 ratio while regular classes are at 35:1? How early is too early to decide a kid is "advanced" vs had a two parent household of graduate and post-graduate educated parents, books, food stable, etc.? If a kid had no advantages should we warehouse them in 7th grade? 6th? 10th?

These are really hard questions and issues. The answers aren't easy and every action has an impact elsewhere. I'm white and rich. I grew up white and rich wanting for nothing. My kids have had every possible advantage. Part of me wanted them in honors classes and doing advanced work in 2nd grade. Part of me doesn't' want them in a classroom with disruptive kids or anyone not at their grade level. But then I remember that I live in DC and send my kids to school here in order for them to have a diverse education and experiences and to interact with people not like them. So I struggle with all of this.

"We should vote them all out" doesn't actually make any sense in this context.

I struggle with nothing and I'm not white. Good schools first, diversity second.

This minority Boston Latin and Ivy graduate who grew up in bad news public housing, with an Asian spouse who graduated from Hunter College MS and HS in NYC, says total BS.

Not in fact hard questions or issues.

Create great urban test-in programs to serve advanced kids and reap the ample rewards as a city. A jurisdiction can also serve students who work at grade level, or below it well. These avenues of advance need not be mutually exclusive.

DC public simply lacks ambition for all kids capable of advanced academic work, poor, middle-class and rich. Shame on DC public.

Anonymous wrote:Until parents organize to vote out city council members and DC mayors who could care less if by-right middle and high schools mostly serve neighborhood families, nothing will change much.

Covid will only make the process harder.

Your words make no sense (except to vent on DCUM). The idea of by-right schools (read: inbound preference) is to give parents the opportunity to choose that school. All of those OOB kids are there precisely because IB kids aren't; it is necessarily a zero sum game. There's also an equity problem of tracking kids too early and deploying resources disproportionately to high performers. Should advanced classes have a 14:1 ratio while regular classes are at 35:1? How early is too early to decide a kid is "advanced" vs had a two parent household of graduate and post-graduate educated parents, books, food stable, etc.? If a kid had no advantages should we warehouse them in 7th grade? 6th? 10th?

These are really hard questions and issues. The answers aren't easy and every action has an impact elsewhere. I'm white and rich. I grew up white and rich wanting for nothing. My kids have had every possible advantage. Part of me wanted them in honors classes and doing advanced work in 2nd grade. Part of me doesn't' want them in a classroom with disruptive kids or anyone not at their grade level. But then I remember that I live in DC and send my kids to school here in order for them to have a diverse education and experiences and to interact with people not like them. So I struggle with all of this.

"We should vote them all out" doesn't actually make any sense in this context.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:THIS. All the kids tend to get shortchanged without a good cohort of middle-class neighborhood parents onboard to push back against crappy management practices.

You should listen the Nice White Parents Serial Podcast. It is basically about the long history of white parents trying to be saviors.

Also, do you think that schools fail in places with high poverty because of bad management and not, for instance, a whole host of other issues? If only Jack Welsh was running the schools all those poor kids would be at Mann or Lafayette.

This thread started with people butt hurt at those who won't send their kids to the school. Can you make up your mind?

That's actually the main takeaway from the podcast. Since the inception of that school white parents have been able to drive the location, offerings, direction of the school and then when push came to shove they didn't actually send their kids there. It happened decade after decade. The reporter went back to the records to read letters to the school board from the beginning and tracked down some of those families.

The PP to whom I responded came in with (another) white savior post suggesting that if UMC parents pushed administrators everything would change. What the Podcast documents is one school's experience with that mentality.

So, maybe turn down the snark?

Same here.

This in-boundary Asian family just wants a good neighborhood school for 3 kids in a Hill ES vs. a good charter school we lack access. to

Yes, we're still on the BASIS and Latin WL for our oldest.

I'll gladly vote for any DC pol who seems serious about getting us what we want in under 5 years.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm not sure that the things low-income kids working below grade level need (ie, evidence-based solutions to help them stay in school and make academic progress) are the things that middle/upper class families with kids at or above grade level will be pushing for if they enroll at Stuart-Hobson.

For example, non-tracked classes are useful for low-performing students. A longer school day or school year might help. There are certain curriculums and interventions that have been successful in getting kids onto grade level. I don't think these are what the nice white parents of Capitol Hill will be raising money and nagging their elected officials to produce.

So if you want a school that's a better fit for your kid, and doesn't require you to move/win the charter lottery/pay for private, just be honest and say that. Don't pretend that your presence or advocacy skills is going to help any of the students currently at the school.

Non-tracked classes may be useful for low-performing students in the short-term. Less so in the big picture. Advanced students, both low and high SES, need rigor and challenge to compete in an increasingly globalized economy and all boats rise with the tide. DCPS' myopia in serving high fliers does not bode well for aggregate economic growth in the Metro area.

Thank you for proving the point above: the things that parents of "high fliers" (or parents who think their kids are high fliers) will advocate for are not the things that will actually raise achievement for low-performing students. They want what they think is best for their kids and assume it will lift "all boats" and create "aggregate economic growth in the Metro area."

Basically, nice white parents subscribe to the education version of trickle-down economics.

Until parents organize to vote out city council members and DC mayors who could care less if by-right middle and high schools mostly serve neighborhood families, nothing will change much.

Covid will only make the process harder.

Anonymous wrote:I'm not sure that the things low-income kids working below grade level need (ie, evidence-based solutions to help them stay in school and make academic progress) are the things that middle/upper class families with kids at or above grade level will be pushing for if they enroll at Stuart-Hobson.

For example, non-tracked classes are useful for low-performing students. A longer school day or school year might help. There are certain curriculums and interventions that have been successful in getting kids onto grade level. I don't think these are what the nice white parents of Capitol Hill will be raising money and nagging their elected officials to produce.

So if you want a school that's a better fit for your kid, and doesn't require you to move/win the charter lottery/pay for private, just be honest and say that. Don't pretend that your presence or advocacy skills is going to help any of the students currently at the school.

Non-tracked classes may be useful for low-performing students in the short-term. Less so in the big picture. Advanced students, both low and high SES, need rigor and challenge to compete in an increasingly globalized economy and all boats rise with the tide. DCPS' myopia in serving high fliers does not bode well for aggregate economic growth in the Metro area.

I'm not sure that the things low-income kids working below grade level need (ie, evidence-based solutions to help them stay in school and make academic progress) are the things that middle/upper class families with kids at or above grade level will be pushing for if they enroll at Stuart-Hobson.

For example, non-tracked classes are useful for low-performing students. A longer school day or school year might help. There are certain curriculums and interventions that have been successful in getting kids onto grade level. I don't think these are what the nice white parents of Capitol Hill will be raising money and nagging their elected officials to produce.

So if you want a school that's a better fit for your kid, and doesn't require you to move/win the charter lottery/pay for private, just be honest and say that. Don't pretend that your presence or advocacy skills is going to help any of the students currently at the school.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:THIS. All the kids tend to get shortchanged without a good cohort of middle-class neighborhood parents onboard to push back against crappy management practices.

You should listen the Nice White Parents Serial Podcast. It is basically about the long history of white parents trying to be saviors.

Also, do you think that schools fail in places with high poverty because of bad management and not, for instance, a whole host of other issues? If only Jack Welsh was running the schools all those poor kids would be at Mann or Lafayette.

You're painting with much too broad a brush. There are some local schools whose populations are almost entirely and minority and low SES with GOOD management. e.g. Jefferson Academy in SW. But, generally this just isn't the case. Pushy middle class parents can do a great deal to help schools improve - e.g. Maury, Brent, Ludlow on Cap Hill.