Anonymous
08/27/2020 14:45
Subject: Excessive fitness training
Anonymous wrote:There’s a difference between being fit and having athletic ability. You don’t need to have outstanding athletic ability to play certain positions in soccer, of course factoring in the team’s style, tactics, system etc. but you do need to be fit. You’re not necessarily looking for pure athletic ability. It’s nice, but this isn’t track. If I have a choice, give me a player that can control the tempo of the game like Ever Banega. Fitness is still very important, but there’s a little more nuance than that when it comes to player identification.
for every bit of a nonathlete you are, your teammates have to compensate. since there are no pro-level touches in the high echelons of youth/teen soccer in the US, you need athletic ability. additionally, the game is evolving. players like banega are a dying breed. don't be lazy, prioritize your touch and be explosive.
Anonymous
08/27/2020 14:42
Subject: Excessive fitness training
There’s a difference between being fit and having athletic ability. You don’t need to have outstanding athletic ability to play certain positions in soccer, of course factoring in the team’s style, tactics, system etc. but you do need to be fit. You’re not necessarily looking for pure athletic ability. It’s nice, but this isn’t track. If I have a choice, give me a player that can control the tempo of the game like Ever Banega. Fitness is still very important, but there’s a little more nuance than that when it comes to player identification.
Anonymous
08/27/2020 14:37
Subject: Excessive fitness training
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Your genes dictate the limitations of your ability to be an athlete. So regardless, you will have a ceiling and people have different levels. Strength, power, and speed are all different and useful in soccer depending on you, your position, the way you play. Being explosive is probably the most important thing in soccer, and most sports, as it creates separation.
No, technical ability and sound decision making are most important.
Why is does Amsterdam Abdellah not get a shot anywhere in the Eredivisie? Probably best control of the ball in the game, but he's just not an athlete. There are plenty of overweight people on YouTube that can move the ball anywhere and receive the ball from anywhere--but if you can't move you can't play. The level of the game dictates that, ODSL sure. But even by CCL, not gonna happen. Let alone college, MLS, Europe.
You have it mixed up. It’s not unimportant. You’d think that the players you’re recruiting or working with meet a certain level of fitness, so you can look out for other traits that differentiate players who meet a certain standard when it comes to fitness. Fitness is a basic requirement, players have to run for miles in a single match, it’s of utmost importance. But technical ability and decision making are the things you watch out for. If there’s a guy with a touch like a mother’s kiss, you could whip them into shape. You throw a fit guy with no touch, no instincts into a highly technical team? Good luck, their own teammates will eat them alive.
correct, and you can't teach athletic ability. you can grow strength, but power is something that is really dictated by your genes. you throw an nonathletic kid into an athletic competition, he'll be eaten alive
Can you site where you got this from? Thanks. Also, you mention...a non athletic kid. Can you provide the criteria to be considered athletic? Thanks
https://ghr.nlm.nih.gov/primer/traits/athleticperformance
https://www.mensjournal.com/health-fitness/how-train-muscle-power/
Mark Rippetoe is a great educator of this. I wouldn't say 'criteria' that depends on the environmental surroundings. Look at the standing vertical jump, 40 time with a 10yd split, and specific 10yd agility drills.
Anonymous
08/27/2020 14:29
Subject: Excessive fitness training
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Your genes dictate the limitations of your ability to be an athlete. So regardless, you will have a ceiling and people have different levels. Strength, power, and speed are all different and useful in soccer depending on you, your position, the way you play. Being explosive is probably the most important thing in soccer, and most sports, as it creates separation.
No, technical ability and sound decision making are most important.
Why is does Amsterdam Abdellah not get a shot anywhere in the Eredivisie? Probably best control of the ball in the game, but he's just not an athlete. There are plenty of overweight people on YouTube that can move the ball anywhere and receive the ball from anywhere--but if you can't move you can't play. The level of the game dictates that, ODSL sure. But even by CCL, not gonna happen. Let alone college, MLS, Europe.
You have it mixed up. It’s not unimportant. You’d think that the players you’re recruiting or working with meet a certain level of fitness, so you can look out for other traits that differentiate players who meet a certain standard when it comes to fitness. Fitness is a basic requirement, players have to run for miles in a single match, it’s of utmost importance. But technical ability and decision making are the things you watch out for. If there’s a guy with a touch like a mother’s kiss, you could whip them into shape. You throw a fit guy with no touch, no instincts into a highly technical team? Good luck, their own teammates will eat them alive.
correct, and you can't teach athletic ability. you can grow strength, but power is something that is really dictated by your genes. you throw an nonathletic kid into an athletic competition, he'll be eaten alive
Can you site where you got this from? Thanks. Also, you mention...a non athletic kid. Can you provide the criteria to be considered athletic? Thanks
Anonymous
08/27/2020 14:22
Subject: Excessive fitness training
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Your genes dictate the limitations of your ability to be an athlete. So regardless, you will have a ceiling and people have different levels. Strength, power, and speed are all different and useful in soccer depending on you, your position, the way you play. Being explosive is probably the most important thing in soccer, and most sports, as it creates separation.
No, technical ability and sound decision making are most important.
Why is does Amsterdam Abdellah not get a shot anywhere in the Eredivisie? Probably best control of the ball in the game, but he's just not an athlete. There are plenty of overweight people on YouTube that can move the ball anywhere and receive the ball from anywhere--but if you can't move you can't play. The level of the game dictates that, ODSL sure. But even by CCL, not gonna happen. Let alone college, MLS, Europe.
You have it mixed up. It’s not unimportant. You’d think that the players you’re recruiting or working with meet a certain level of fitness, so you can look out for other traits that differentiate players who meet a certain standard when it comes to fitness. Fitness is a basic requirement, players have to run for miles in a single match, it’s of utmost importance. But technical ability and decision making are the things you watch out for. If there’s a guy with a touch like a mother’s kiss, you could whip them into shape. You throw a fit guy with no touch, no instincts into a highly technical team? Good luck, their own teammates will eat them alive.
correct, and you can't teach athletic ability. you can grow strength, but power is something that is really dictated by your genes. you throw an nonathletic kid into an athletic competition, he'll be eaten alive
Anonymous
08/27/2020 14:16
Subject: Excessive fitness training
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Your genes dictate the limitations of your ability to be an athlete. So regardless, you will have a ceiling and people have different levels. Strength, power, and speed are all different and useful in soccer depending on you, your position, the way you play. Being explosive is probably the most important thing in soccer, and most sports, as it creates separation.
No, technical ability and sound decision making are most important.
Why is does Amsterdam Abdellah not get a shot anywhere in the Eredivisie? Probably best control of the ball in the game, but he's just not an athlete. There are plenty of overweight people on YouTube that can move the ball anywhere and receive the ball from anywhere--but if you can't move you can't play. The level of the game dictates that, ODSL sure. But even by CCL, not gonna happen. Let alone college, MLS, Europe.
You have it mixed up. It’s not unimportant. You’d think that the players you’re recruiting or working with meet a certain level of fitness, so you can look out for other traits that differentiate players who meet a certain standard when it comes to fitness. Fitness is a basic requirement, players have to run for miles in a single match, it’s of utmost importance. But technical ability and decision making are the things you watch out for. If there’s a guy with a touch like a mother’s kiss, you could whip them into shape. You throw a fit guy with no touch, no instincts into a highly technical team? Good luck, their own teammates will eat them alive.
Anonymous
08/27/2020 14:08
Subject: Excessive fitness training
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Your genes dictate the limitations of your ability to be an athlete. So regardless, you will have a ceiling and people have different levels. Strength, power, and speed are all different and useful in soccer depending on you, your position, the way you play. Being explosive is probably the most important thing in soccer, and most sports, as it creates separation.
No, technical ability and sound decision making are most important.
only of the baseline of fitness is present.
Of course. But if you don’t meet the baseline requirements, the level is too high for you. You’d think being in the proper physical shape is the bare minimum.
Anonymous
08/27/2020 12:33
Subject: Excessive fitness training
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Your genes dictate the limitations of your ability to be an athlete. So regardless, you will have a ceiling and people have different levels. Strength, power, and speed are all different and useful in soccer depending on you, your position, the way you play. Being explosive is probably the most important thing in soccer, and most sports, as it creates separation.
No, technical ability and sound decision making are most important.
Why is does Amsterdam Abdellah not get a shot anywhere in the Eredivisie? Probably best control of the ball in the game, but he's just not an athlete. There are plenty of overweight people on YouTube that can move the ball anywhere and receive the ball from anywhere--but if you can't move you can't play. The level of the game dictates that, ODSL sure. But even by CCL, not gonna happen. Let alone college, MLS, Europe.
Anonymous
08/27/2020 12:28
Subject: Excessive fitness training
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Your genes dictate the limitations of your ability to be an athlete. So regardless, you will have a ceiling and people have different levels. Strength, power, and speed are all different and useful in soccer depending on you, your position, the way you play. Being explosive is probably the most important thing in soccer, and most sports, as it creates separation.
No, technical ability and sound decision making are most important.
only of the baseline of fitness is present.
Anonymous
08/27/2020 12:25
Subject: Excessive fitness training
U13 and under it’s a waste to concentrate on physical fitness. You get the kids for so little amount of time why waste it on running laps. You need to maximize touches and build skilled so the kids can play at the next age group.
Kids should get in shape by playing soccer not running laps. It is ridiculous watching a team that needs skill training run laps, practice body checking, etc while the soccer ball sits off to the side unused. You do not develop your vision by doing fitness.
In games the kids look like they have never played with ball before. They whiff on easy balls, have no first touch, inaccurate passing, can not see the field, etc. They look good running around without the ball but totally unproductive with the ball.
The fitness coach in travel soccer has nothing else. It easy to sell fitness to clueless parents.
Kids should get in shape by playing soccer not running laps. It is ridiculous watching a team that needs skill training run laps, practice body checking, etc while the soccer ball sits off to the side unused. You do not develop your vision by doing fitness.
In games the kids look like they have never played with ball before. They whiff on easy balls, have no first touch, inaccurate passing, can not see the field, etc. They look good running around without the ball but totally unproductive with the ball.
The fitness coach in travel soccer has nothing else. It easy to sell fitness to clueless parents.
Anonymous
08/26/2020 13:04
Subject: Re:Excessive fitness training
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I think the problem is really the context not the requirement of fitness.
Most kids are not in shape having missed a spring season and that should not be a surprise to any rational adult or coach.
Normally lack of fitness with players could be more punitive but with a protracted quarantine during the entirety of the spring season a lack of fitness across an entire team should be expected and dealt with more pragmatically.
Getting back into shape always sucks but piling on kids who may have had varying degrees of opportunity to stay in soccer shape is the wrong message at this particular time.
Just encourage the kids and lay out a proper plan to get them back to where they need to be. Using scare tactics are unnecessary at this point when most kids are in the same boat.
Problem is most soccer coaches are people that played in college and then got some coaching licenses. 99% of coaches have no idea how to lay out a "proper" plan that addresses everything a soccer player needs. Most coaches just make kids do whatever they did when they were young. What really needs to happen is that clubs get certified strength and condition professionals on staff. People that actually went to school for this to create and oversee a proper plan. Most coaches don't even know...should kids static stretch before a game? After? Is running laps OK? What if they do it with a ball? Should I have them do sprints? Well what's the best distance? When are we training speed vs conditioning? Are ladders good or bad? Can coaches correct running mechanics? Can they identify imbalances/other mechanical issues? Should coaches talk to kids about diet? That's a whole different topic.
What are the answers to these questions? Is running laps ok?
No, you never see a soccer player running without a ball on the field
That’s complete BS
Anonymous
08/26/2020 13:03
Subject: Excessive fitness training
Anonymous wrote:Your genes dictate the limitations of your ability to be an athlete. So regardless, you will have a ceiling and people have different levels. Strength, power, and speed are all different and useful in soccer depending on you, your position, the way you play. Being explosive is probably the most important thing in soccer, and most sports, as it creates separation.
No, technical ability and sound decision making are most important.
Anonymous
08/26/2020 13:00
Subject: Re:Excessive fitness training
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:smart coaches use games and ball work to push endurance. players can work their stamina while simultaneously getting meaningful touches on the ball. bielsa's players call it 'death ball'
i think...
"Excessive fitness training" and "death ball"
You mean “murderball”. When he was at Bilbao the players called it “Champions”. His players at Newell’s just called it “football”. It’s just a full field scrimmage where players are asked to play at max intensity for intervals (5 mins at a time etc). There are no fouls, coaches are on the side with balls so play can restart quickly and constantly pushing players so the tempo is always high. The way many of his players talk about it, the intensity in these sessions is higher than what they face in actual competitive matches, so they can usually set out to overwhelm and impose their style on opponents. This is just one component of training methodology though.
Anonymous
08/26/2020 12:51
Subject: Excessive fitness training
I bet many of the people posting here are young players. Just seeing the type of immature comments here in in other threads.
Anonymous
08/26/2020 12:38
Subject: Re:Excessive fitness training
Anonymous wrote:As a baseline, a 16+ year old elite-level field player should be able to run 6 to 10 miles easily. All the other stuff — sprinting, agility, comfort with the ball — gets built on top of that baseline endurance necessary to last 90 minutes in a game. Watch the last 15 minutes of any game at U16 or older. The team whose fitness isn’t up to par loses.
Explosive muscles aren't built off of cardiovascular nor slow twitch muscles. I recommend most people here hire a trainer, or, invest the time to educate yourself.