Anonymous wrote:OP here. I’m intrigued by the posts about high-stat students who initially struggled. It’s my sense that W&M, like other selective liberal arts colleges, place a premium on writing well. For a lot of high school students - even those with high GPAs and test scores - that is not a skill they’ve mastered. If this is a fair assessment, I’d like to hear more about these struggles and how these students eventually got it right. Does W&M provide writing instruction/mentorship that helps students eventually meet their standards?

The professors graded my papers and provided significant feedback and suggestions for improvement. I remember thinking they nearly wrote as much as I did on occasion. They were also available as I was developing my thesis and working through rough drafts. The focus wasn't on writing per se. That was the finished product. We had to read source materials critically and thoroughly, and construct our supporting arguments in a rigorous way.

I should note this was not limited to humanities and social sciences. My STEM (science) friends often did supervised research and research papers in their junior and senior years. It seemed to be good prep for graduate and medical school.

Anonymous wrote:I am the VA Tech grad that posted here. My kid is a freshman at W & M.

For undergrad education (not experience):

W & M is by far the top choice in Virginia. Student have to work hard, but that means they learn a lot. It is the only school in VA where most of the undergrads get involved in research. Because of the limited graduate programs (particularly in STEM), the professors rely on undergrads instead of grad students.

A graduate of W & M will know how to write. They will be a critical thinker. A graduate of VT or UVA may be every bit as good as one from UVA or VT.

But, if you want to experience the Rah Rah Rah! aspect of college, W & M is probably not the right school.

For partying/sports, I would chose UVA, VT, JMU. and ODU over W & M.

When I went to Tech I never considered W & M: I was a nerd and did not want to go to an LAC. As I have aged, I now see the value of the LAC education.

William and Mary is not an LAC. It has an undergraduate population of about 6,300 kids. Most LACs are about 1/4 to a 1/3 of that. Amherst, for example, is 1,800 kids. My kid’s LAC is about 2,000. I’d call William and Mary a mid-size university. Wake Forest is a little over 5,000 undergrad as a comparison so it’s even bigger than Wake Forest. So, not an LAC.

I don’t think many students at W&M now are spending time posting on DCUM. Maybe you should try college confidential or niche.

Back in the late 90s, I was riding high out of my nova middle-of-the-pack nova big box high school and entered W&M (I loved the size and the campus) with 18 AP credits. The school kicked my a** academically the first semester. It was a lot tougher than anything I had previously encountered. Plus, my hometown girlfriend (also a freshman there) dumped me a few weeks into the semester. Parents were furious about the grades. I sucked it up and took advantage of study counseling. When I hit my stride, next semester, and scheduled more carefully, I didn’t have a semester below a 3.7. I ended up at a T14 law school. So basically, I picked up good work habits during my time there, and those have served me well. YMMV

I graduated from William and Mary after transferring there from UVA. (yes, seriously)

Socially, I found people to generally be fun without a lot of pretense at William and Mary. At UVA what sorority or fraternity you got into was a big, big deal. A lot of kids who come from money. A lot of kids from the same high school. A lot of pressure socially. At William and Mary, Greek life was fun and much lower-pressure. People weren't really into money or status. Many friends I didn't find out their families were loaded until I visited their homes. Social life was much more casual and welcoming, much less competitive.

Academically, it was much harder than UVA where I found I could skate by by showing up for class and doing the work. At W&M, C really does mean you did "average" work. I had an over 4.0 GPA in high school and earned my first D ever in Calculus at William and Mary. But there is also a sort of camaraderie around the toughness of the school. I went on to work on political campaigns after college and I'd say they attract similar people - work hard, thrive under pressure, play hard too. (in fact many of my campaign colleagues were also W&M alums)

Social good is also really important at William and Mary. People take public service and volunteer work seriously. There is a general desire to do some good with whatever degree you get.

And the long-standing traditions are really fun and knit the culture together well.

I agree with the assessment that Williamsburg gets really boring after awhile. I would definitely study abroad junior year if possible.

Anonymous wrote:OP here. I’m intrigued by the posts about high-stat students who initially struggled. It’s my sense that W&M, like other selective liberal arts colleges, place a premium on writing well. For a lot of high school students - even those with high GPAs and test scores - that is not a skill they’ve mastered. If this is a fair assessment, I’d like to hear more about these struggles and how these students eventually got it right. Does W&M provide writing instruction/mentorship that helps students eventually meet their standards?

I was one of the posters whose kid initially struggled. He had done quite a bit of writing in high school (completed an IB diploma at a rigorous high school). But he had a hard time managing his time, partied too much, got a bit used to BSing his way through papers, and I think happened to have more of the very tough grading professors early on. I think getting some realistic feedback, going to office hours for assistance, and the stings of very low scores helped him along. I think the best bit of advice was go to see the research librarian as soon as the paper is assigned so he doesn't get to a too late point where he had to BS rather than know what he's talking about. Like someone else posted, the average GPA is fairly high (3.3) but it's hard won.

I graduated from W&M and my DD is currently a sophomore there. I loved it, formed very strong friendships, partied as much as I liked (which was more than I should have), have had a very successful career and loved the school and the town. My DD had way too much fun her freshman year (until they left for Covid) and completely disproved the idea that W&M has no social scene. Like many college campuses, it does tend to be socially liberal. I hope this actual experience helps the OP. Much of what was spewed above seems to be from people with no actual experience trying to stir the pot.

OP here. I’m intrigued by the posts about high-stat students who initially struggled. It’s my sense that W&M, like other selective liberal arts colleges, place a premium on writing well. For a lot of high school students - even those with high GPAs and test scores - that is not a skill they’ve mastered. If this is a fair assessment, I’d like to hear more about these struggles and how these students eventually got it right. Does W&M provide writing instruction/mentorship that helps students eventually meet their standards?

William & Mary sends a huge number of students to study abroad programs and is one of the leading producers of Peace Corps volunteers. Based on my knowledge of grads in the work force, it’s a sample size of smart, hard working and kind people. I don’t get the anger on this thread. VA has great college options and even a guaranteed transfer option to UVA or William & Mary from nova.

I had one child attend W&M and the other attend UVA. Both had wonderful experiences. I went to a large Big 10 school for my undergrad degree, and for me W&M felt small and restricting. I was a bit worried my son would not enjoy it over time. It was perfect for him (graduated 2 years ago). And over his time there I came to love the school and the community. He is very outgoing, and there was plenty of fun as well as rigorous studies. He loved it, educationally and socially, and those 4 years were great for him. He enjoyed school, the town, and seems to have life-long friends (yes I know it has only been two years). I think our money was well spent, he has a great job, and is active with the alumni association.

For what it is worth, he was accepted to UVA, Nothwestern, and Michigan, which were the other schools he considered, but chose W&M.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:wm education>UVa
wm experience< UVa
choose what you value.

This is not true for STEM or business.

For science, W & M prepares you for grad school (science usually requires grad school) as well as any school in the country. Particularly if you take advantage of the undergrad research opportunities.

UVA is fine, also. As is VT.

Tech and engineering is not W & M's sweet spot.

So to break down STEM for undergrad:

S: WM > VT; WM > UVA (research opportunities)

T: WM<VT; WM >< UVA

E: WM<VT; WM><UVA (not getting into UVA/VT; that would be off topic)

M: WM=VT; WM=UVA

Business I do not know, except WM>VT

Among public universities, W&M produces a higher percentage of undergraduates who go on to earn STEM PhDs than any school other than Berkeley (which has a higher percentage of STEM undergraduates).

W&M's business school was ranked 21st in Poets & Quants. UVA is ranked 3rd behind Wharton and Michigan. Commerce is really the undergraduate gem there. W&M is rated higher than any other Virginia school.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am a little concerned by some of the posts about grade deflation because graduate/professional school will be on the horizon. Also concerning is the announcement regarding voluntary furloughs for employees and leadership taking salary cuts. However, I know that COVID-19's financial impact is being felt everywhere including the Ivies and there is widespread uncertainty in higher ed.

Schools that are best positioned are massive public research institutions that are often flagships and have state governments supportive of higher education (i.e. Berkeley, UCLA, Texas, Washington) or universities with massive endowments (UVA, Michigan, Ivies, Texas again).

W&M is neither a research institution, nor a flagship, nor does it have a large endowment for its size. The result will be increasing enrollment, decreasing standards and worse faculty due to lack of competitive salaries (which has been true for a while at the school).

You tout the big public research schools for faculty. Take a look at Niche ratings based on surveys. If you look at Michigan, UCLA, Berkeley, Washington, Texas, UVA, and UNC, you will see that W&M scores higher than every single one of these schools in every single one of these ratings:

Professors put a lot of effort into their classes
Easy to get classes students want
Professors are passionate about what they teach
Professors care about student success
Professors are engaging and easy to understand
Professors are approachable and helpful

And what public university of W&M's size has a larger endowment?

I don't doubt that, I already said W&M faculty are more helpful than other public/research schools. The post you are replying to is about survival post-COVID though.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:wm education>UVa
wm experience< UVa
choose what you value.

This is not true for STEM or business.

For science, W & M prepares you for grad school (science usually requires grad school) as well as any school in the country. Particularly if you take advantage of the undergrad research opportunities.

UVA is fine, also. As is VT.

Tech and engineering is not W & M's sweet spot.

So to break down STEM for undergrad:

S: WM > VT; WM > UVA (research opportunities)

T: WM<VT; WM >< UVA

E: WM<VT; WM><UVA (not getting into UVA/VT; that would be off topic)

M: WM=VT; WM=UVA

Business I do not know, except WM>VT

Anonymous wrote:wm education>UVa
wm experience< UVa
choose what you value.

This is not true for STEM or business.

I am the VA Tech grad that posted here. My kid is a freshman at W & M.

For undergrad education (not experience):

W & M is by far the top choice in Virginia. Student have to work hard, but that means they learn a lot. It is the only school in VA where most of the undergrads get involved in research. Because of the limited graduate programs (particularly in STEM), the professors rely on undergrads instead of grad students.

A graduate of W & M will know how to write. They will be a critical thinker. A graduate of VT or UVA may be every bit as good as one from UVA or VT.

But, if you want to experience the Rah Rah Rah! aspect of college, W & M is probably not the right school.

For partying/sports, I would chose UVA, VT, JMU. and ODU over W & M.

When I went to Tech I never considered W & M: I was a nerd and did not want to go to an LAC. As I have aged, I now see the value of the LAC education.