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Anonymous wrote:Seems like these pods are going to just increase community spread like crazy. They closed schools for a reason folks.

There’s a difference between limiting a potential outbreak to a group of 4 kids and their families and having a classroom outbreak, or spread around on a bus containing kids from many different classrooms.

The big rallying cry in many districts was to protect the teachers. Pods achieve that.

This is a dire situation where parents need to work while kids need to engage in learning. By all means, make suggestions that allow that to happen while avoiding live school AND small private arrangements/ pods. We’ll wait.

Data is now coming out that kids are just as susceptible to this virus than adults. One of the main reasons that kids were spared this spring was...wait for it...they closed schools. Now that camps and schools opened, look at the data. Rising sickness AND deaths. I'm not saying kids are as likely to die as grandparents, but they are seeing more deaths and we don't know the long term effects.

Look, I know this is hard. But saying school closures only protect teachers is outdated data. I get that it's hard to work and oversee school but the stakes are too high with this virus for my family.

Please show the “data” that proves this.

I saw those headlines too, but the “data” behind them are weak at best

It depends on what "data" you are doubting, I can't tell.

If there is something that is going on around that impacts 1% of kids and of that 1%, 0.1 percent have bad outcomes (hospitalization, long term effects, death, whatever), then it's probably pretty low on the list of what parents need to worry about. But if we then find that the something going around actually impacts 10% of kids, then that 0.1 percent all of a sudden becomes more concerning.

Deaths and effects have been low because kids were out of school etc. As things are opening up and kids are congregating, kids are getting the virus at much higher rates. 100K in the last 2 weeks! And schools have even really opened yet! Just a few have plus more camps etc.

So as cases go, adverse effects in kids will go up too.

OK, I see your point now. You're referring to their susceptibility to get infected, not the rate at which they have serious complications. I haven't seen anything suggesting that the mortality or complication rate is substantially higher than previously thought.

The data on transmissibility in children is still up for debate, with recent studies pointing both directions. Looking at the past several months, the general pattern I saw in studies was that laboratory studies that looked at things like viral load suggested kids should transmit just as well as adults, but case studies tended to suggest that they didn't in practice. I do know, however, there are some more recent studies that go against that conclusion (though, I think there's also some recent studies that support it, too).

This is jarring: "COVID-19 hospitalizations among children in Florida rose from 213 to 436 during that same period, a 105% increase. Deaths among children rose from four to seven in Florida during that period."

https://www.wesh.com/article/florida-covid-19-child-cases-increase/33573641#

Essentially, we had low adverse outcomes in kids because kids weren't getting exposed and therefore sick. Now, kids are getting exposed, sick, and we are seeing more bad outcomes.

Still fewer than older people, yes. But as a parent this is concerning.

That all sounds rather expected, no? When you double the cases, you double the deaths. Am I missing something? Why would you find that jarring?

Um, it's jarring because if you do the math that some of the experts are doing, it means a lot of kids will die or suffer long term health consequences.

I guess I'm just reacting the the idea that there's any new information here. We've always known children to get and transmit COVID, and the cases observed in Florida (7 out of 40,000 pediatric cases) yields a 0.0175% pediatric mortality rate. That's roughly in-line with what's been estimated for a while now.

You can be disturbed by a 0.0175% mortality rate- I just don't see why there's any particular reason to be more worried now than you should have been a month or two ago.

As a point of reference, though, I do want to point out that the 2019-2020 flu season resulted in 14 pediatric flu-associated deaths in Florida.

+1 thank you for explaining this, immediate PP. Seems so many people don’t understand or care to look deeper at the statistics and how they are PROPORTIONATE to whatever other metrics you’re using to compare them with! You can’t just read headlines and think you’re fully informed.

You are only reading headline about low mortality rates and not informing yourself of the other consequences of this virus.

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Anonymous wrote:Seems like these pods are going to just increase community spread like crazy. They closed schools for a reason folks.

There’s a difference between limiting a potential outbreak to a group of 4 kids and their families and having a classroom outbreak, or spread around on a bus containing kids from many different classrooms.

The big rallying cry in many districts was to protect the teachers. Pods achieve that.

This is a dire situation where parents need to work while kids need to engage in learning. By all means, make suggestions that allow that to happen while avoiding live school AND small private arrangements/ pods. We’ll wait.

Data is now coming out that kids are just as susceptible to this virus than adults. One of the main reasons that kids were spared this spring was...wait for it...they closed schools. Now that camps and schools opened, look at the data. Rising sickness AND deaths. I'm not saying kids are as likely to die as grandparents, but they are seeing more deaths and we don't know the long term effects.

Look, I know this is hard. But saying school closures only protect teachers is outdated data. I get that it's hard to work and oversee school but the stakes are too high with this virus for my family.

Please show the “data” that proves this.

I saw those headlines too, but the “data” behind them are weak at best

It depends on what "data" you are doubting, I can't tell.

If there is something that is going on around that impacts 1% of kids and of that 1%, 0.1 percent have bad outcomes (hospitalization, long term effects, death, whatever), then it's probably pretty low on the list of what parents need to worry about. But if we then find that the something going around actually impacts 10% of kids, then that 0.1 percent all of a sudden becomes more concerning.

Deaths and effects have been low because kids were out of school etc. As things are opening up and kids are congregating, kids are getting the virus at much higher rates. 100K in the last 2 weeks! And schools have even really opened yet! Just a few have plus more camps etc.

So as cases go, adverse effects in kids will go up too.

OK, I see your point now. You're referring to their susceptibility to get infected, not the rate at which they have serious complications. I haven't seen anything suggesting that the mortality or complication rate is substantially higher than previously thought.

The data on transmissibility in children is still up for debate, with recent studies pointing both directions. Looking at the past several months, the general pattern I saw in studies was that laboratory studies that looked at things like viral load suggested kids should transmit just as well as adults, but case studies tended to suggest that they didn't in practice. I do know, however, there are some more recent studies that go against that conclusion (though, I think there's also some recent studies that support it, too).

This is jarring: "COVID-19 hospitalizations among children in Florida rose from 213 to 436 during that same period, a 105% increase. Deaths among children rose from four to seven in Florida during that period."

https://www.wesh.com/article/florida-covid-19-child-cases-increase/33573641#

Essentially, we had low adverse outcomes in kids because kids weren't getting exposed and therefore sick. Now, kids are getting exposed, sick, and we are seeing more bad outcomes.

Still fewer than older people, yes. But as a parent this is concerning.

That all sounds rather expected, no? When you double the cases, you double the deaths. Am I missing something? Why would you find that jarring?

Um, it's jarring because if you do the math that some of the experts are doing, it means a lot of kids will die or suffer long term health consequences.

I guess I'm just reacting the the idea that there's any new information here. We've always known children to get and transmit COVID, and the cases observed in Florida (7 out of 40,000 pediatric cases) yields a 0.0175% pediatric mortality rate. That's roughly in-line with what's been estimated for a while now.

You can be disturbed by a 0.0175% mortality rate- I just don't see why there's any particular reason to be more worried now than you should have been a month or two ago.

As a point of reference, though, I do want to point out that the 2019-2020 flu season resulted in 14 pediatric flu-associated deaths in Florida.

+1 thank you for explaining this, immediate PP. Seems so many people don’t understand or care to look deeper at the statistics and how they are PROPORTIONATE to whatever other metrics you’re using to compare them with! You can’t just read headlines and think you’re fully informed.

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Anonymous wrote:I'll also note that Florida's pediatric COVID mortality rate (17.5 per 100,000) is in the same ballpark as the annual motor vehicle mortality rate (11.18 per 100,000 in 2018).

I'm not trying to say that COVID isn't very serious. I'm just disputing that the pediatric numbers out of Florida are particularly new, surprising, or dire.

There have been 7 child covid-related deaths among Florida residents.

http://ww11.doh.state.fl.us/comm/_partners/covid19_report_archive/pediatric_report_latest.pdf

There are other outcomes to worry about from this virus aside from death. If that is the only metric you care about, no child has ever died from not being placed in a learning pod.

Social isolation can absolutely have deadly consequences for teenagers and adults.

We’re discussing young children, not teens and adults...

It's probably just play dates.

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Anonymous wrote:12 kids seems like a lot.

You aren't supposed to gather in groups larger than 10, so confused how this even works. most pods are 2-6 kids.

Is that 10 indoors? I thought up to 50 was okayed?

Anonymous wrote:12 kids seems like a lot.

You aren't supposed to gather in groups larger than 10, so confused how this even works. most pods are 2-6 kids.

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Anonymous wrote:I'll also note that Florida's pediatric COVID mortality rate (17.5 per 100,000) is in the same ballpark as the annual motor vehicle mortality rate (11.18 per 100,000 in 2018).

I'm not trying to say that COVID isn't very serious. I'm just disputing that the pediatric numbers out of Florida are particularly new, surprising, or dire.

There have been 7 child covid-related deaths among Florida residents.

http://ww11.doh.state.fl.us/comm/_partners/covid19_report_archive/pediatric_report_latest.pdf

There are other outcomes to worry about from this virus aside from death. If that is the only metric you care about, no child has ever died from not being placed in a learning pod.

Social isolation can absolutely have deadly consequences for teenagers and adults.

You can find ways to not be socially isolated that don't include what some of these pods describe, which are several families mixing kids INSIDE most of the day.

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Anonymous wrote:I'll also note that Florida's pediatric COVID mortality rate (17.5 per 100,000) is in the same ballpark as the annual motor vehicle mortality rate (11.18 per 100,000 in 2018).

I'm not trying to say that COVID isn't very serious. I'm just disputing that the pediatric numbers out of Florida are particularly new, surprising, or dire.

There have been 7 child covid-related deaths among Florida residents.

http://ww11.doh.state.fl.us/comm/_partners/covid19_report_archive/pediatric_report_latest.pdf

There are other outcomes to worry about from this virus aside from death. If that is the only metric you care about, no child has ever died from not being placed in a learning pod.

Social isolation can absolutely have deadly consequences for teenagers and adults.

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Anonymous wrote:I'll also note that Florida's pediatric COVID mortality rate (17.5 per 100,000) is in the same ballpark as the annual motor vehicle mortality rate (11.18 per 100,000 in 2018).

I'm not trying to say that COVID isn't very serious. I'm just disputing that the pediatric numbers out of Florida are particularly new, surprising, or dire.

There have been 7 child covid-related deaths among Florida residents.

http://ww11.doh.state.fl.us/comm/_partners/covid19_report_archive/pediatric_report_latest.pdf

There are other outcomes to worry about from this virus aside from death. If that is the only metric you care about, no child has ever died from not being placed in a learning pod.

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Anonymous wrote:Seems like these pods are going to just increase community spread like crazy. They closed schools for a reason folks.

So what are parents with two working parents and young kids supposed to do?

Should it just be expected that one of them quite their jobs, possibly have to sell their house to manager kindergarten?

What do you want me to say? No one has the answers. This sucks. This is the worst crisis that has happened to us. It is upending everything. But burying your head in the sand and somehow thinking you are the exception - that congregating 6 kids together and a tutor together isn't risky - isn't the answer.

What happens if someone in your pod or someone they live with gets sick? You have to work right, just push through?

Look this is horrible but seems like if we just suck it up it will end. The more people who do things like this, this will keep spreading and spreading.

What about parents who send their kids to daycare? And SACC? Are all those on your $hitlist as well?

So, podding is very different than these things from what I've seen on DCUM and in the media. It's understandable that parents of young kids would want their kids in daycare while they work and for older kids, essential workers and people who can't WFH it seems childcare at school would make sense. It's a benefit risk equation and the benefits of not keeping a child home alone might outweigh the risks of the virus for many, and some simply don't have a choice.

The pods aren't about keeping kids safe, or about childcare. I'm sure there are some good reasons to make sure kids are getting social activity or help with school, though I don't think it means you have to pod with 6 families and a tutor. There are safer ways I'm sure.

Further, you need to stop and ask yourself why you even care what me or other anon posters on this website think of your plan. You aren't going to convince me and others that pods are okay, though you really seem to want to. What does it matter? Do what you want to do.

Anonymous wrote:I'll also note that Florida's pediatric COVID mortality rate (17.5 per 100,000) is in the same ballpark as the annual motor vehicle mortality rate (11.18 per 100,000 in 2018).

I'm not trying to say that COVID isn't very serious. I'm just disputing that the pediatric numbers out of Florida are particularly new, surprising, or dire.

There have been 7 child covid-related deaths among Florida residents.

http://ww11.doh.state.fl.us/comm/_partners/covid19_report_archive/pediatric_report_latest.pdf

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Seems like these pods are going to just increase community spread like crazy. They closed schools for a reason folks.

So what are parents with two working parents and young kids supposed to do?

Should it just be expected that one of them quite their jobs, possibly have to sell their house to manager kindergarten?

What do you want me to say? No one has the answers. This sucks. This is the worst crisis that has happened to us. It is upending everything. But burying your head in the sand and somehow thinking you are the exception - that congregating 6 kids together and a tutor together isn't risky - isn't the answer.

What happens if someone in your pod or someone they live with gets sick? You have to work right, just push through?

Look this is horrible but seems like if we just suck it up it will end. The more people who do things like this, this will keep spreading and spreading.

What about parents who send their kids to daycare? And SACC? Are all those on your $hitlist as well?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Seems like these pods are going to just increase community spread like crazy. They closed schools for a reason folks.

So what are parents with two working parents and young kids supposed to do?

Should it just be expected that one of them quite their jobs, possibly have to sell their house to manager kindergarten?

What do you want me to say? No one has the answers. This sucks. This is the worst crisis that has happened to us. It is upending everything. But burying your head in the sand and somehow thinking you are the exception - that congregating 6 kids together and a tutor together isn't risky - isn't the answer.

What happens if someone in your pod or someone they live with gets sick? You have to work right, just push through?

Look this is horrible but seems like if we just suck it up it will end. The more people who do things like this, this will keep spreading and spreading.

Similarly, you shouldn't bury your head in the sand over the challenges working parents face, either.

You've rather harshly criticized a choice parents are making, yet you've suggested no alternatives that would be practical for working parents. Pods probably are a bad option for a number of reasons, but that doesn't necessarily mean they aren't the best option, too.

Actually, we’ve been saying it over and over.

DL for grades 3+. Homeschool before/after work and a little on weekends for k-2. Let the younger kids play during your work day, as long as you’re working from home. If you’re not working from home, the best of bad choices is either a nanny for just you or a small center that is being very careful about cleaning and distancing AND will supervise dl.

Anonymous wrote:You couldn’t pay me to pod. A bad play date that never ends.

I think it's fine if the kids are same age (or minimum 2 different grades) and you hire a "teacher" who somebody other than the parents.
My first and second grade were spent with another grade in the same room.

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Anonymous wrote:I'll also note that Florida's pediatric COVID mortality rate (17.5 per 100,000) is in the same ballpark as the annual motor vehicle mortality rate (11.18 per 100,000 in 2018).

I'm not trying to say that COVID isn't very serious. I'm just disputing that the pediatric numbers out of Florida are particularly new, surprising, or dire.

But based on your numbers above, the COVID mortality rate is actually more than 1.5 times higher than the motor vehicle mortality rate and that rate is for the entire year of 2018, whereas we are only seven months through 2020, the first three months of which saw hardly any COVID deaths in the US (not sure about Florida).

Am I missing something?

Right. 1.5x is in the same ballpark. I would consider 11.18 per 100,000 and 17.5 per 100,000 to be roughly similar.

And we're talking about rates here, not overall numbers, so it doesn't particularly matter that one is for the year while the other is for a few months. The *rate* isn't likely to change much. Though, I'll note that they're measuring very different things. The motor vehicle rate is the overall morality rate of car accidents, while the COVID rate is just the morality rate *if you happen to get infected.*

In other words, for children, even if you expect everyone to get COVID, the risk of death appears to be roughly on par with the risk of dying in a car accident.