Anonymous
Post 07/24/2020 13:06     Subject: Re:FCPS Appeals decision are out
Anonymous wrote:Did not get in despite having mildly gifted WISC, 140+. My kid is in 99.6% but this is somehow not good enough for FCPS.
I have a tangebile test score along with other documentation to prove he is eligible. Yet all I received from the school is a generic unqualified letter.
Also why are we providing all those documents explaining every detail providing documents when we get nothing from FCPS.
At least FCPS should show the decency explaining why my kid is not accepted.


It really seems like a colossal screw up this year. I have never seen so many high wisc rejections for appeals. Appeal process is when they usually fix their mistakes.

Anonymous
Post 07/24/2020 12:52     Subject: Re:FCPS Appeals decision are out
I just wanted to let you know that I emailed them and asked for a re-evaluation. If it was a mistake and if they receive emails from several parents, maybe reevaluating is an option. Please send them a note to make our feedback heard. Thanks 😊
Anonymous
Post 07/24/2020 12:26     Subject: FCPS Appeals decision are out
Different poster of a child who did not get in. I emailed and asked for a possible re-evaluation of her file.
Anonymous
Post 07/24/2020 12:21     Subject: FCPS Appeals decision are out
.... meanwhile, my kid's AAP class last year had reading groups for on and below grade level readers. There were kids who scored below 70% or even below 50% on IAAT, which means that they're completely average in math. It all makes no sense.
Anonymous
Post 07/24/2020 12:17     Subject: Re:FCPS Appeals decision are out
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:

So, you're basically illustrating that the GBRS is a bad metric. If kids who are actually gifted are getting lower ratings for not doing the busywork or for being introverts, then the GBRS is horribly flawed. Also, if the teachers are so overwhelmed with packed classes and don't have the opportunity to really know their students, then why is their input more important than the test scores? Why are they placing so much emphasis on such a flawed measure?

If an IQ 149 kid is rejected, and the teacher gave a relatively low GBRS, all that proves is that the teacher wouldn't know giftedness if it bit her in the a**. It doesn't say anything at all about the level of giftedness of the kid.


My kid is an introvert. We have actively worked with him on being willing to raise his hand and participate. He has never had a problem with finishing his work at school, even though it is boring and easy. He knows very well that we will not tolerate his Teachers telling us that he is not doing the work he is assigned. His job is to make his best effort at school. That means doing all assigned work, no matter how easy it is. His GBRS were 3CO and 1FO even though he is an introvert who is not excited to raise his hand. He does the assigned work, pulls out the extra material and does that, or he makes up his own extra work. He is not the only one doing this.

The Teachers can only judge your kids on what they do. If they are not doing the assigned work, then they are not going to be judge favorably. I fail to see why this is hard for parents to get. I would guess that some of these high scores are a surprise to the Teacher because they are not seeing that behavior in the classroom. The system has plenty of flaws, but expecting Teachers to assume that kids are gifted and should be in AAP when they are not willing to do the work that they are assigned is crazy. Because there are other kids in class who are not doing the work because it is above them. And there are kids not doing the work because they have ADHD. And I am sure there are other reasons for kids not doing work.

Take a look at those GBRS's, ask what the Teachers were seeing, and work with your child to change their behavior and participation in class. Or continue to blame the Teachers and be bitter that your kids genius is not being recognized.


You're once again illustrating why GBRS is a terrible measure and shouldn't be emphasized nearly as much as it is. Willingness to slog through mounds of busywork that is beneath you is not a gifted trait. Raising your hand a lot is also not a gifted trait. Teachers are giving high ratings to above average, diligent children and not to children who are actually displaying gifted traits. I don't blame the teachers for this. For the most part, they're not actually spending that much time with the top groups, so they aren't as likely to really know the kids. They also aren't well trained in giftedness. It makes perfect sense for a teacher to give high ratings to a child who is above average, neat, diligent, and a people pleaser. That just means that GBRS is horribly flawed and shouldn't be over-riding the test scores.

No matter how you try to spin things, it's absurd for any kid with a WISC FSIQ over 130 to be rejected. It's beyond ludicrous for kids with IQs in the 140s or higher to be rejected.
Anonymous
Post 07/24/2020 12:08     Subject: Re:FCPS Appeals decision are out
I am so sorry for all these. I had to appeal for my daughter in both 2nd and 3rd grade, despite with >140 WISC scores. She was finally in but the process was so upsetting. Do not give up - talk to your school principles, talk to FCSP AAP office, let them know this is not right. You have to advocate for your children. I have a feeling that much of these rejections had to do with GBRS, which is subjective/unfair and should only serve as a secondary role in the admission process. Any students with >138 CogAT or WISC should be admitted. The AAP office must change the weight of GBRS.
Anonymous
Post 07/24/2020 11:59     Subject: Re:FCPS Appeals decision are out
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Not in 149 WISC-V - all subsections were high
3 new samples (realistic fiction, science oriented writing and math problem solving)
3 recommendation letters

Original submission CogAt 141, 4FO, NNAT 126 (can't remember the exact number)

No words. Beyond frustrated.




I am the poster with this result. Thank you to the OPs for your sentiments. Beyond the test scores alone, my child had produced really great work samples. Also, the recommendations were stellar (2 from language teachers who have taught her for 2-3 years straight - my child likes learning new languages). I am just flabbergasted. Also, I think it's important to share this information even if like this so that others know. This really really seems wrong to me. If anyone has any constructive ideas about how I can try to address this or even raise awareness, I would welcome input.


To be perfectly honest, AAP is beneath your child, and your child would have been bored out of his/her mind. I'd look into private schools, homeschooling, outside enrichment/tutoring programs, or the like so your child's needs might actually be met.

You should also apply to Davidson Young Scholars ( https://www.davidsongifted.org/young-scholars ) They have a lot of resources for kids with IQs above 145.


Also, I think your child will absolutely be a "Principal placement," Move forward with that for this year and sign up some enrichment classes. Reapply in 4th if you want. Good luck!


Thank you OPs for your words of encouragement. Really appreciate it. We've just reached out to our Principal and AART about the Principal's Placement. I have not heard of it but it is certainly worth a try. Also reached out to the AAP Committee for further dialogue. In both cases acknowledging that we understand that the AAP Committee's decision is final I just think there is more here to probe for purposes of transparency and fairness. Not just for my child but for others as well.
Anonymous
Post 07/24/2020 11:57     Subject: Re:FCPS Appeals decision are out
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:

This is why I asked about what was said at Conferences or comments that might have been made on report cards or in progress reports. If you are being told that you child is not doing extra work in the classroom or not completing assignments in the classroom then you can bet that they are likely to have lower GBRSs. And we can argue that a kid who is advanced is going to be bored by the worksheet or assignment that they are given until we are blue in the face, the kid still has to complete the work. If they are not, then the GBRSs are going to be low and that is going to hurt a kids chances.

And we can skip the BS that the Teachers love the kids who are vocal, know it all, suck ups. The Teachers have full classes and can only act on the info that they have in front of them. The loud kid, raising their hand, and doing work above grade level is going to be more visible than the kid who is refusing to do the assigned work and not doing extra work. The kid who is bored and reusing to do the work assigned is not going to be seen as gifted or bored. They are going to be seen as a kid not doing the work. For many kids their refusal is because they are struggling or have a learning disability. If you are hearing form the Teachers that your child is not engaging, then you should be talking with your child about completing their work and engaging, even if they are not excited about the material.


So, you're basically illustrating that the GBRS is a bad metric. If kids who are actually gifted are getting lower ratings for not doing the busywork or for being introverts, then the GBRS is horribly flawed. Also, if the teachers are so overwhelmed with packed classes and don't have the opportunity to really know their students, then why is their input more important than the test scores? Why are they placing so much emphasis on such a flawed measure?

If an IQ 149 kid is rejected, and the teacher gave a relatively low GBRS, all that proves is that the teacher wouldn't know giftedness if it bit her in the a**. It doesn't say anything at all about the level of giftedness of the kid.


My kid is an introvert. We have actively worked with him on being willing to raise his hand and participate. He has never had a problem with finishing his work at school, even though it is boring and easy. He knows very well that we will not tolerate his Teachers telling us that he is not doing the work he is assigned. His job is to make his best effort at school. That means doing all assigned work, no matter how easy it is. His GBRS were 3CO and 1FO even though he is an introvert who is not excited to raise his hand. He does the assigned work, pulls out the extra material and does that, or he makes up his own extra work. He is not the only one doing this.

The Teachers can only judge your kids on what they do. If they are not doing the assigned work, then they are not going to be judge favorably. I fail to see why this is hard for parents to get. I would guess that some of these high scores are a surprise to the Teacher because they are not seeing that behavior in the classroom. The system has plenty of flaws, but expecting Teachers to assume that kids are gifted and should be in AAP when they are not willing to do the work that they are assigned is crazy. Because there are other kids in class who are not doing the work because it is above them. And there are kids not doing the work because they have ADHD. And I am sure there are other reasons for kids not doing work.

Take a look at those GBRS's, ask what the Teachers were seeing, and work with your child to change their behavior and participation in class. Or continue to blame the Teachers and be bitter that your kids genius is not being recognized.
Anonymous
Post 07/24/2020 11:50     Subject: Re:FCPS Appeals decision are out
Anonymous wrote:
Also, I think your child will absolutely be a "Principal placement," Move forward with that for this year and sign up some enrichment classes. Reapply in 4th if you want. Good luck!


Principal placements are only available if the school is LLIV and the AAP class has space. A child can't be principal placed if the base school doesn't have AAP LIV, and it's very rare for AAP center schools to principal place kids.
Anonymous
Post 07/24/2020 11:48     Subject: FCPS Appeals decision are out
FCPS is selecting kids for AAP who fit the "Bright Child" column and not the "Gifted Learner" one.

https://1.cdn.edl.io/aTYYRtdrKrjaw0OP15mDlQ5MG70O1H8NnaOIakrlwvMfOhKf.pdf

Also, AAP kind of is an entitlement. VA has a mandate stating that gifted children are to receive gifted services. I don't know how they can justify withholding gifted services from kids who are objectively gifted via WISC/licensed psychologist finding.
Anonymous
Post 07/24/2020 11:45     Subject: Re:FCPS Appeals decision are out
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I am the post with 140 wisc score and rejection. Do you know a good education attorney that I can contact for consultation?


Just curious as to what a good education attorney could do for a case like this?


Nothing. It takes ages to get anything with an attorney for a kid with an IEP. I have never heard of someone suing over AAP.



YEah, it's not like AAP is an entitlement. It's not even that important. Except assuage anxious parents' egos.
Anonymous
Post 07/24/2020 11:43     Subject: Re:FCPS Appeals decision are out
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Not in 149 WISC-V - all subsections were high
3 new samples (realistic fiction, science oriented writing and math problem solving)
3 recommendation letters

Original submission CogAt 141, 4FO, NNAT 126 (can't remember the exact number)

No words. Beyond frustrated.




I am the poster with this result. Thank you to the OPs for your sentiments. Beyond the test scores alone, my child had produced really great work samples. Also, the recommendations were stellar (2 from language teachers who have taught her for 2-3 years straight - my child likes learning new languages). I am just flabbergasted. Also, I think it's important to share this information even if like this so that others know. This really really seems wrong to me. If anyone has any constructive ideas about how I can try to address this or even raise awareness, I would welcome input.


To be perfectly honest, AAP is beneath your child, and your child would have been bored out of his/her mind. I'd look into private schools, homeschooling, outside enrichment/tutoring programs, or the like so your child's needs might actually be met.

You should also apply to Davidson Young Scholars ( https://www.davidsongifted.org/young-scholars ) They have a lot of resources for kids with IQs above 145.


Also, I think your child will absolutely be a "Principal placement," Move forward with that for this year and sign up some enrichment classes. Reapply in 4th if you want. Good luck!
Anonymous
Post 07/24/2020 11:39     Subject: Re:FCPS Appeals decision are out
Did not get in despite having mildly gifted WISC, 140+. My kid is in 99.6% but this is somehow not good enough for FCPS.
I have a tangebile test score along with other documentation to prove he is eligible. Yet all I received from the school is a generic unqualified letter.
Also why are we providing all those documents explaining every detail providing documents when we get nothing from FCPS.
At least FCPS should show the decency explaining why my kid is not accepted.
Anonymous
Post 07/24/2020 11:38     Subject: Re:FCPS Appeals decision are out
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Not in 149 WISC-V - all subsections were high
3 new samples (realistic fiction, science oriented writing and math problem solving)
3 recommendation letters

Original submission CogAt 141, 4FO, NNAT 126 (can't remember the exact number)

No words. Beyond frustrated.




Wow. Have you considered consulting an education attorney.


I am just in shock at the moment, so haven't considered anything. Honestly, my daughter should have been admitted the first round and we thought it was a mistake. But now, I don't know what is going on. We also have an older kid in the full-time program, so we have a sense of the process and believe that the full-time AAP will serve my daughter well. Yikes.


This is how Asians feel when they receive rejection letters from colleges/universities. Shocked and frustrated.


Yes, Asians, so what? Look at yourself, you probably dont have anything better than us!
Anonymous
Post 07/24/2020 11:35     Subject: Re:FCPS Appeals decision are out
Anonymous wrote:

This is why I asked about what was said at Conferences or comments that might have been made on report cards or in progress reports. If you are being told that you child is not doing extra work in the classroom or not completing assignments in the classroom then you can bet that they are likely to have lower GBRSs. And we can argue that a kid who is advanced is going to be bored by the worksheet or assignment that they are given until we are blue in the face, the kid still has to complete the work. If they are not, then the GBRSs are going to be low and that is going to hurt a kids chances.

And we can skip the BS that the Teachers love the kids who are vocal, know it all, suck ups. The Teachers have full classes and can only act on the info that they have in front of them. The loud kid, raising their hand, and doing work above grade level is going to be more visible than the kid who is refusing to do the assigned work and not doing extra work. The kid who is bored and reusing to do the work assigned is not going to be seen as gifted or bored. They are going to be seen as a kid not doing the work. For many kids their refusal is because they are struggling or have a learning disability. If you are hearing form the Teachers that your child is not engaging, then you should be talking with your child about completing their work and engaging, even if they are not excited about the material.


So, you're basically illustrating that the GBRS is a bad metric. If kids who are actually gifted are getting lower ratings for not doing the busywork or for being introverts, then the GBRS is horribly flawed. Also, if the teachers are so overwhelmed with packed classes and don't have the opportunity to really know their students, then why is their input more important than the test scores? Why are they placing so much emphasis on such a flawed measure?

If an IQ 149 kid is rejected, and the teacher gave a relatively low GBRS, all that proves is that the teacher wouldn't know giftedness if it bit her in the a**. It doesn't say anything at all about the level of giftedness of the kid.