Anonymous
06/14/2020 12:58
Subject: Elissa Silverman and BLM Anti-Semitism Controversy
“ In the American context, the most ironical thing about Negro anti-Semitism is that the Negro is really condemning the Jew for having become an American white man--for having become, in effect, a Christian.”
This is SO wrong, I can’t even begin. He displays absolutely zero knowledge of the fact that Jews, on a per capita basis, are more likely to be victims of hate crimes than any other group.
We have survived primarily because we have hidden who we are. When we have made it clear who we are, we have been attacked.
This is SO wrong, I can’t even begin. He displays absolutely zero knowledge of the fact that Jews, on a per capita basis, are more likely to be victims of hate crimes than any other group.
We have survived primarily because we have hidden who we are. When we have made it clear who we are, we have been attacked.
Anonymous
06/14/2020 12:55
Subject: Elissa Silverman and BLM Anti-Semitism Controversy
jsteele wrote:Anonymous wrote:That is a horrible screed against Jews that you never should have posted.
You didn't read far enough. It ends up being the opposite.
I was done when he said everyone celebrated the Warsaw Ghetto uprising and that Jews are universally loved, essentially. What a deeply wrong view of history.
Anonymous
06/14/2020 12:54
Subject: Elissa Silverman and BLM Anti-Semitism Controversy
This is already 6 pages and I haven't read it all, but I see how this is controversial.
It's akin - not exactly, but close - to saying all lives matter when someone says Black Lives matter.
When someone asks you support something, and you do, the answer is yes. At this point in time, when someone asks if you support BLM, you say yes. You don't then tie in something else entirely.
MAYBE, you send a follow up tweet. Tweet 1 is reply - yes, I support BLM. That's unequivocal. Tweet 2 is something like I hope to be a strong ally of the BLM movement. We are all in this together. week 3 is where you can start to sequence into needing allies yourself.
The whole point is you absolutely stand on a point - yes I support BLM. Then and only then, can you slowly move into other people who need support.
It's akin - not exactly, but close - to saying all lives matter when someone says Black Lives matter.
When someone asks you support something, and you do, the answer is yes. At this point in time, when someone asks if you support BLM, you say yes. You don't then tie in something else entirely.
MAYBE, you send a follow up tweet. Tweet 1 is reply - yes, I support BLM. That's unequivocal. Tweet 2 is something like I hope to be a strong ally of the BLM movement. We are all in this together. week 3 is where you can start to sequence into needing allies yourself.
The whole point is you absolutely stand on a point - yes I support BLM. Then and only then, can you slowly move into other people who need support.
Anonymous
06/14/2020 12:48
Subject: Elissa Silverman and BLM Anti-Semitism Controversy
jsteele wrote:Anonymous wrote:That is a horrible screed against Jews that you never should have posted.
You didn't read far enough. It ends up being the opposite.
+1. I haven't read much of Baldwin's writings before, and I enjoyed the read--thanks to whoever posted.
jsteele
06/14/2020 12:43
Subject: Elissa Silverman and BLM Anti-Semitism Controversy
Anonymous wrote:That is a horrible screed against Jews that you never should have posted.
You didn't read far enough. It ends up being the opposite.
Anonymous
06/14/2020 12:32
Subject: Elissa Silverman and BLM Anti-Semitism Controversy
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I don’t think she was being transactional.
There is a dark history of anti-Semitism among *some* AAs—Louis Farrakhan has had resonance among some—and I hope the response from BLM wasn’t a reflection of that.
There is also a strain of anti-Semitism among *some* parts of the progressive movement, as an outgrowth of understandable dislike of cruel Israeli policies towards Palestinians.
I hope that exchange does not reflect any of those undercurrents.
Now who is stirring the pot!!!
It’s absolutely true that there is anti-semitism among SOME on the left.
One example of Women’s March leaders who believe that Jews had some special role in the slave trade: https://www.thedailybeast.com/report-womens-march-leaders-made-anti-semitic-comments-to-fellow-founder
This is something Louis Farrakhan has talked about: https://www.splcenter.org/fighting-hate/extremist-files/individual/louis-farrakhan
All I said in my post is that I hope these tweets aren’t rooted in any agreement with that line of thinking.
Let's assume that your comments are true. That "there is antisemitism among SOME on the left" is not, to my mind, justification for going out of your way to associate this antisemitism COMPLETELY WITHOUT ANY JUSTIFICATION WHATSOEVER with a very specific group: DMVBlacives.
Let me put this another way -- I'm sure that there are some Jews somewhere -- starting with some of the Ultra Orthodox in Crown Heights and my former neighbor who used to follow me in the hallways muttering "Shvartze, Shvartze..." who have racist views and even associate with particular "leaders" or groups that share these views. Would you feel comfortable with someone saying: "I hope that the DMV area JCC and JCA are not in agreement with the Proud Boys and David Duke?" It's at best a spurious association. It's also right out of Trump's: "People are saying...." playbook of using innuendo to get his lies to stick.
tldr: Why are you going out of your way create an unnecessary and unsupported association between DMV Black Lives Matter and antisemitism? Real question.
I hope your comments are not rooted in any hope of stirring up further enmity between local Blacks and Jews.
They’re not at all meant to be like that. I said I HOPE the tweets don’t come from that place.
And I appreciate that point! I really do. But I hope you can also see, and appreciate, my point: that when you suggest an association, however-- spurious -- sometimes that association will be all that people remember. I am heartened by your good intentions.
I struggle to find any black movement or leader who has not been called anti-Semitic and where Farrakhan, who literally occupies more space in heads of those feigning anti-Semitic outrage than in any actual black person you will meet on the street, has not be used as a weapon against blacks. I am happy the Jewish community is hyper vigilant against even the appearance of anti-Semitisim. They should be. Just don’t use it as an excuse to not fight for equal right for marginalized groups, a classification no longer applicable to American Jews in actuality.
The great James Baldwin captures the relations between Black and American Jews well. Still wholly applicable despite writing this over 50 years ago.
http://movies2.nytimes.com/books/98/03/29/specials/baldwin-antisem.html
That is a horrible screed against Jews that you never should have posted.
Anonymous
06/14/2020 12:30
Subject: Elissa Silverman and BLM Anti-Semitism Controversy
Jews are still marginalized, but we shouldn’t be doing the suffering Olympics.
Anonymous
06/14/2020 12:27
Subject: Elissa Silverman and BLM Anti-Semitism Controversy
This is why Twitter isn't suitable for policy discussions. Can you really compress complicated ideas into 140 characters? I thought we finally had moved last sound bites, but politicians continue to feed the beast with Twitter politics.
However, now it seems we have the victim Olympics. Lovely.
However, now it seems we have the victim Olympics. Lovely.
Anonymous
06/14/2020 12:22
Subject: Elissa Silverman and BLM Anti-Semitism Controversy
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I don’t think she was being transactional.
There is a dark history of anti-Semitism among *some* AAs—Louis Farrakhan has had resonance among some—and I hope the response from BLM wasn’t a reflection of that.
There is also a strain of anti-Semitism among *some* parts of the progressive movement, as an outgrowth of understandable dislike of cruel Israeli policies towards Palestinians.
I hope that exchange does not reflect any of those undercurrents.
Now who is stirring the pot!!!
It’s absolutely true that there is anti-semitism among SOME on the left.
One example of Women’s March leaders who believe that Jews had some special role in the slave trade: https://www.thedailybeast.com/report-womens-march-leaders-made-anti-semitic-comments-to-fellow-founder
This is something Louis Farrakhan has talked about: https://www.splcenter.org/fighting-hate/extremist-files/individual/louis-farrakhan
All I said in my post is that I hope these tweets aren’t rooted in any agreement with that line of thinking.
Let's assume that your comments are true. That "there is antisemitism among SOME on the left" is not, to my mind, justification for going out of your way to associate this antisemitism COMPLETELY WITHOUT ANY JUSTIFICATION WHATSOEVER with a very specific group: DMVBlacives.
Let me put this another way -- I'm sure that there are some Jews somewhere -- starting with some of the Ultra Orthodox in Crown Heights and my former neighbor who used to follow me in the hallways muttering "Shvartze, Shvartze..." who have racist views and even associate with particular "leaders" or groups that share these views. Would you feel comfortable with someone saying: "I hope that the DMV area JCC and JCA are not in agreement with the Proud Boys and David Duke?" It's at best a spurious association. It's also right out of Trump's: "People are saying...." playbook of using innuendo to get his lies to stick.
tldr: Why are you going out of your way create an unnecessary and unsupported association between DMV Black Lives Matter and antisemitism? Real question.
I hope your comments are not rooted in any hope of stirring up further enmity between local Blacks and Jews.
They’re not at all meant to be like that. I said I HOPE the tweets don’t come from that place.
And I appreciate that point! I really do. But I hope you can also see, and appreciate, my point: that when you suggest an association, however-- spurious -- sometimes that association will be all that people remember. I am heartened by your good intentions.
I struggle to find any black movement or leader who has not been called anti-Semitic and where Farrakhan, who literally occupies more space in heads of those feigning anti-Semitic outrage than in any actual black person you will meet on the street, has not be used as a weapon against blacks. I am happy the Jewish community is hyper vigilant against even the appearance of anti-Semitisim. They should be. Just don’t use it as an excuse to not fight for equal right for marginalized groups, a classification no longer applicable to American Jews in actuality.
The great James Baldwin captures the relations between Black and American Jews well. Still wholly applicable despite writing this over 50 years ago.
http://movies2.nytimes.com/books/98/03/29/specials/baldwin-antisem.html
Anonymous
06/14/2020 12:11
Subject: Elissa Silverman and BLM Anti-Semitism Controversy
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I don’t think she was being transactional.
There is a dark history of anti-Semitism among *some* AAs—Louis Farrakhan has had resonance among some—and I hope the response from BLM wasn’t a reflection of that.
There is also a strain of anti-Semitism among *some* parts of the progressive movement, as an outgrowth of understandable dislike of cruel Israeli policies towards Palestinians.
I hope that exchange does not reflect any of those undercurrents.
Now who is stirring the pot!!!
It’s absolutely true that there is anti-semitism among SOME on the left.
One example of Women’s March leaders who believe that Jews had some special role in the slave trade: https://www.thedailybeast.com/report-womens-march-leaders-made-anti-semitic-comments-to-fellow-founder
This is something Louis Farrakhan has talked about: https://www.splcenter.org/fighting-hate/extremist-files/individual/louis-farrakhan
All I said in my post is that I hope these tweets aren’t rooted in any agreement with that line of thinking.
Let's assume that your comments are true. That "there is antisemitism among SOME on the left" is not, to my mind, justification for going out of your way to associate this antisemitism COMPLETELY WITHOUT ANY JUSTIFICATION WHATSOEVER with a very specific group: DMVBlacives.
Let me put this another way -- I'm sure that there are some Jews somewhere -- starting with some of the Ultra Orthodox in Crown Heights and my former neighbor who used to follow me in the hallways muttering "Shvartze, Shvartze..." who have racist views and even associate with particular "leaders" or groups that share these views. Would you feel comfortable with someone saying: "I hope that the DMV area JCC and JCA are not in agreement with the Proud Boys and David Duke?" It's at best a spurious association. It's also right out of Trump's: "People are saying...." playbook of using innuendo to get his lies to stick.
tldr: Why are you going out of your way create an unnecessary and unsupported association between DMV Black Lives Matter and antisemitism? Real question.
I hope your comments are not rooted in any hope of stirring up further enmity between local Blacks and Jews.
They’re not at all meant to be like that. I said I HOPE the tweets don’t come from that place.
And I appreciate that point! I really do. But I hope you can also see, and appreciate, my point: that when you suggest an association, however-- spurious -- sometimes that association will be all that people remember. I am heartened by your good intentions.
I struggle to find any black movement or leader who has not been called anti-Semitic and where Farrakhan, who literally occupies more space in heads of those feigning anti-Semitic outrage than in any actual black person you will meet on the street, has not be used as a weapon against blacks. I am happy the Jewish community is hyper vigilant against even the appearance of anti-Semitisim. They should be. Just don’t use it as an excuse to not fight for equal right for marginalized groups, a classification no longer applicable to American Jews in actuality.
Anonymous
06/14/2020 11:34
Subject: Elissa Silverman and BLM Anti-Semitism Controversy
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I don’t think she was being transactional.
There is a dark history of anti-Semitism among *some* AAs—Louis Farrakhan has had resonance among some—and I hope the response from BLM wasn’t a reflection of that.
There is also a strain of anti-Semitism among *some* parts of the progressive movement, as an outgrowth of understandable dislike of cruel Israeli policies towards Palestinians.
I hope that exchange does not reflect any of those undercurrents.
Now who is stirring the pot!!!
It’s absolutely true that there is anti-semitism among SOME on the left.
One example of Women’s March leaders who believe that Jews had some special role in the slave trade: https://www.thedailybeast.com/report-womens-march-leaders-made-anti-semitic-comments-to-fellow-founder
This is something Louis Farrakhan has talked about: https://www.splcenter.org/fighting-hate/extremist-files/individual/louis-farrakhan
All I said in my post is that I hope these tweets aren’t rooted in any agreement with that line of thinking.
Let's assume that your comments are true. That "there is antisemitism among SOME on the left" is not, to my mind, justification for going out of your way to associate this antisemitism COMPLETELY WITHOUT ANY JUSTIFICATION WHATSOEVER with a very specific group: DMVBlacives.
Let me put this another way -- I'm sure that there are some Jews somewhere -- starting with some of the Ultra Orthodox in Crown Heights and my former neighbor who used to follow me in the hallways muttering "Shvartze, Shvartze..." who have racist views and even associate with particular "leaders" or groups that share these views. Would you feel comfortable with someone saying: "I hope that the DMV area JCC and JCA are not in agreement with the Proud Boys and David Duke?" It's at best a spurious association. It's also right out of Trump's: "People are saying...." playbook of using innuendo to get his lies to stick.
tldr: Why are you going out of your way create an unnecessary and unsupported association between DMV Black Lives Matter and antisemitism? Real question.
I hope your comments are not rooted in any hope of stirring up further enmity between local Blacks and Jews.
They’re not at all meant to be like that. I said I HOPE the tweets don’t come from that place.
And I appreciate that point! I really do. But I hope you can also see, and appreciate, my point: that when you suggest an association, however-- spurious -- sometimes that association will be all that people remember. I am heartened by your good intentions.
Anonymous
06/14/2020 10:06
Subject: Elissa Silverman and BLM Anti-Semitism Controversy
NP. Silverman's comments were tone deaf at best, and I wonder about the motivations of those on this thread coming out to defend her.
BLM is a movement that is rooted in police violence against Black communities. I have never seen anyone even attempt to make the case that Jewish communities face the same brutality at the hands of law enforcement, which means that the role of Jewish political leaders is to stand in solidarity with Black leaders, not to dredge up conflict.
Silverman's comment was appropo of absolutely nothing.
Yes, antisemitism is a real and growing problem in the United States, but a statement of support for BLM should not come with caveats, nor the All Lives Matter energy of Silverman's tweet.
Like I say, tone deaf at the very best. Indicative of dangerous ideas regarding whether Black lives *really* matter to her, at worst.
BLM is a movement that is rooted in police violence against Black communities. I have never seen anyone even attempt to make the case that Jewish communities face the same brutality at the hands of law enforcement, which means that the role of Jewish political leaders is to stand in solidarity with Black leaders, not to dredge up conflict.
Silverman's comment was appropo of absolutely nothing.
Yes, antisemitism is a real and growing problem in the United States, but a statement of support for BLM should not come with caveats, nor the All Lives Matter energy of Silverman's tweet.
Like I say, tone deaf at the very best. Indicative of dangerous ideas regarding whether Black lives *really* matter to her, at worst.
Anonymous
06/14/2020 09:47
Subject: Elissa Silverman and BLM Anti-Semitism Controversy
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I don’t think she was being transactional.
There is a dark history of anti-Semitism among *some* AAs—Louis Farrakhan has had resonance among some—and I hope the response from BLM wasn’t a reflection of that.
There is also a strain of anti-Semitism among *some* parts of the progressive movement, as an outgrowth of understandable dislike of cruel Israeli policies towards Palestinians.
I hope that exchange does not reflect any of those undercurrents.
Now who is stirring the pot!!!
It’s absolutely true that there is anti-semitism among SOME on the left.
One example of Women’s March leaders who believe that Jews had some special role in the slave trade: https://www.thedailybeast.com/report-womens-march-leaders-made-anti-semitic-comments-to-fellow-founder
This is something Louis Farrakhan has talked about: https://www.splcenter.org/fighting-hate/extremist-files/individual/louis-farrakhan
All I said in my post is that I hope these tweets aren’t rooted in any agreement with that line of thinking.
Let's assume that your comments are true. That "there is antisemitism among SOME on the left" is not, to my mind, justification for going out of your way to associate this antisemitism COMPLETELY WITHOUT ANY JUSTIFICATION WHATSOEVER with a very specific group: DMVBlacives.
Let me put this another way -- I'm sure that there are some Jews somewhere -- starting with some of the Ultra Orthodox in Crown Heights and my former neighbor who used to follow me in the hallways muttering "Shvartze, Shvartze..." who have racist views and even associate with particular "leaders" or groups that share these views. Would you feel comfortable with someone saying: "I hope that the DMV area JCC and JCA are not in agreement with the Proud Boys and David Duke?" It's at best a spurious association. It's also right out of Trump's: "People are saying...." playbook of using innuendo to get his lies to stick.
tldr: Why are you going out of your way create an unnecessary and unsupported association between DMV Black Lives Matter and antisemitism? Real question.
I hope your comments are not rooted in any hope of stirring up further enmity between local Blacks and Jews.
They’re not at all meant to be like that. I said I HOPE the tweets don’t come from that place.
Anonymous
06/14/2020 09:45
Subject: Elissa Silverman and BLM Anti-Semitism Controversy
jsteele wrote:I am completely baffled by the controversy that has arisen from this tweet by At Large Council Member Elissa Silverman:
She was immediately attacked due to making her support for BLM "transactional". However, I don't read her tweet as offering her support for BLM in return for their support against anti-Semitism. Rather, I see her offering her support unconditionally and only expressing her hope that BLM will join her. Never mind that BLM should be opposing anti-Semitism regardless of what Silverman does.
Silverman quickly apologized:
But that hasn't stopped the attacks:
I think the appropriate response by BLM and its supporters to Silverman's initial tweet would be to thank her for her support and assure her that they will always stand by her against anti-Semitism. These attacks on her are very discouraging and disappointing.
Anything that isn’t perceived as bowing and kissing the ring gets attacked. You are making sense here and sense clearly isn’t allowed
Anonymous
06/13/2020 15:17
Subject: Elissa Silverman and BLM Anti-Semitism Controversy
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I don’t think she was being transactional.
There is a dark history of anti-Semitism among *some* AAs—Louis Farrakhan has had resonance among some—and I hope the response from BLM wasn’t a reflection of that.
There is also a strain of anti-Semitism among *some* parts of the progressive movement, as an outgrowth of understandable dislike of cruel Israeli policies towards Palestinians.
I hope that exchange does not reflect any of those undercurrents.
Now who is stirring the pot!!!
It’s absolutely true that there is anti-semitism among SOME on the left.
One example of Women’s March leaders who believe that Jews had some special role in the slave trade: https://www.thedailybeast.com/report-womens-march-leaders-made-anti-semitic-comments-to-fellow-founder
This is something Louis Farrakhan has talked about: https://www.splcenter.org/fighting-hate/extremist-files/individual/louis-farrakhan
All I said in my post is that I hope these tweets aren’t rooted in any agreement with that line of thinking.
Let's assume that your comments are true. That "there is antisemitism among SOME on the left" is not, to my mind, justification for going out of your way to associate this antisemitism COMPLETELY WITHOUT ANY JUSTIFICATION WHATSOEVER with a very specific group: DMVBlacives.
Let me put this another way -- I'm sure that there are some Jews somewhere -- starting with some of the Ultra Orthodox in Crown Heights and my former neighbor who used to follow me in the hallways muttering "Shvartze, Shvartze..." who have racist views and even associate with particular "leaders" or groups that share these views. Would you feel comfortable with someone saying: "I hope that the DMV area JCC and JCA are not in agreement with the Proud Boys and David Duke?" It's at best a spurious association. It's also right out of Trump's: "People are saying...." playbook of using innuendo to get his lies to stick.
tldr: Why are you going out of your way create an unnecessary and unsupported association between DMV Black Lives Matter and antisemitism? Real question.
I hope your comments are not rooted in any hope of stirring up further enmity between local Blacks and Jews.