Your reasoning is odd. Much better teachers at Williams because that’s what they look for in faculty. If your goal is to learn Williams is better for undergrads than Harvard.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:UNC without a doubt and regardless of the cost differential.

Have you toured the campuses? UNC wins hands down. The campus is beautiful and well-kept. There is a lot of money being poured into it and you can see it everywhere on campus. Whereas UVA is really run down and it has a strong hard-luck vibe now that it didn't have back when I was a student there. I wish I could say that UVA has done a good job keeping up appearances but it just hasn't. Enough said.

There also is a lot to be said for the easy drive to UNC. A straight shot down 95 to 84 on nice straight interstate highways. It is pretty much a piece of cake.

Although in this area there are a lot of UVA supporters it is my opinion that UNC has a better national/international profile and name recognition.

UNC has a better national representation? Haha, no.

UNC definitely has a better international reputation because they pump out far more research. The Shanghai Ranking ranks UNC 23/33 US/Global while UVA is ranked 59-66/151-200.

Nationally, someone in the Midwest or West may know UNC more because of basketball and Duke. Among academics, they know UNC because of the Research Triangle.

In the Mid-Atlantic/NYC area, UVa is probably considered more prestigious, but that may be entirely based on history and somewhat higher average student quality, and also reading USNews a lot.

Again, the problem with UVA is that its research is very weak for a "top" public school. And this does trickle down to undergrads among research universities with better professors, better TA's, better courses, better programs, and better research opportunities

So your theory is a school that prioritizes research is somehow good for undergrads? I'd say find a school that prioritizes undergraduate education. To

This is not a difficult concept to understand. Which university is known better worldwide, Harvard or Williams? Academic research brings academic prestige and reputation to the school.

And yes, a school with little research will have professors that generally aren't as capable in research terms. That doesn't mean they wouldn't be good educators, but at that point why not simply learn from a high school teacher. Why do you need to learn from a Ph.D. professor?
Also schools with little research will have a lot of adjuncts, lecturers, etc.
More research = more research professors = more interesting classes for undergrads, better TA's, better overall program foundation.

The flipside is most research universities might have larger class size, and in the case of UNC/UVA, UVA probably have a better population academically.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Which would you pick?

I don't think I'd pay OOS tuition for either. There are many academically comparable private schools where you'll be able to pay less -- and your kid will get more personal attention.

OP here. That was not our experience. The private schools that seem to be in the same tier as these two that DC got into did not give any aid so would be paying $75K + (Rochester and Boston College) which isn’t really in the budget. The two schools that did give her enough aid to make the costs a little bit less ($38K total at Loyola MD and $48K at Syracuse) I don’t think would really be considered academically comparable. Maybe I’m wrong.

You’re not wrong.

With respect to the schools you mentioned, you're probably not wrong. But you likely limited your search unnecessarily. Should have included some SLACs within the #40-100 range of the USNWR rankings for national liberal arts colleges. Many of them provide a college experience that is superior in many respects to what you'll find at mid-sized or larger universities (where students are just anonymous faces in a large herd). And your kid could have gone to one of these SLACs for a price that reflects the true, actual cost of a year in attendance at a residential college (either private or public flagship), which is about $30-35k.

Of all the schools you've considered, BC is probably the best in terms of the undergraduate curriculum offered, but it's not worth $75k/year. I don't think any American college or university is worth that kind of money. But some are willing to pay it, and that's why certain schools can get away with charging it.

I have a feeling that that is about to change.

Reading the library comment again, I’m guessing you went into Alderman. You’re neglecting to mention that there were signs everywhere saying they were shutting down for renovation at Spring Break. They were packing up the books for weeks and you HAD to notice the trucks and workers. You could also hear them sending things down a giant trash chute in the side of the building with a back hoe picking stuff up and putting it in a dumpster.

There is no way you didn’t see the signs unless you are really unobservant.

Clemons 3rd and 4th are brand new
Alderman is closed for a giant renovation

There are a dozen libraries at UVA. What library did you go into that was so bad?

All the dorms got renovated so there is AC for every dorm now. The Castle got made into a Sweet Greens type place. They’ve been renovating constantly.

I kind of have to agree with you. I know that the campus has UNESCO World Heritage status but I was shocked at the small, cramped and hot library with electrical tape covering cords all over the floors. The libraries at its peer institutions UCLA and Michigan are open, well-ventilated and huge!

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:UNC without a doubt and regardless of the cost differential.

Have you toured the campuses? UNC wins hands down. The campus is beautiful and well-kept. There is a lot of money being poured into it and you can see it everywhere on campus. Whereas UVA is really run down and it has a strong hard-luck vibe now that it didn't have back when I was a student there. I wish I could say that UVA has done a good job keeping up appearances but it just hasn't. Enough said.

There also is a lot to be said for the easy drive to UNC. A straight shot down 95 to 84 on nice straight interstate highways. It is pretty much a piece of cake.

Although in this area there are a lot of UVA supporters it is my opinion that UNC has a better national/international profile and name recognition.

UVA’s campus is not “really run down”. WTF?

Have you been there recently? The last time I was there was in the beginning of March on a beautiful sunny day. The campus looked horrible. I mean it always has looked bad (and I am a UVA alum) but it looked even worse than normal. It reeked of "I've given up." The next day we went to UNC and it was a really stinky rainy day but the campus was gorgeous. The green space was well-groomed the facilities were well-maintained, and it looked about 1000 times better than UVA. We were at both schools showing a cousin's kid around. At that point we didn't know he would get in to both but it was pretty clear after those two days that UNC was going to be his first choice just based on the campus feel. Coupled with the fact that it will give him a better graduate school path, it is a no-brainer.

Anonymous wrote:UNC without a doubt and regardless of the cost differential.

Have you toured the campuses? UNC wins hands down. The campus is beautiful and well-kept. There is a lot of money being poured into it and you can see it everywhere on campus. Whereas UVA is really run down and it has a strong hard-luck vibe now that it didn't have back when I was a student there. I wish I could say that UVA has done a good job keeping up appearances but it just hasn't. Enough said.

There also is a lot to be said for the easy drive to UNC. A straight shot down 95 to 84 on nice straight interstate highways. It is pretty much a piece of cake.

Although in this area there are a lot of UVA supporters it is my opinion that UNC has a better national/international profile and name recognition.

UVA’s campus is not “really run down”. WTF?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:UNC without a doubt and regardless of the cost differential.

Have you toured the campuses? UNC wins hands down. The campus is beautiful and well-kept. There is a lot of money being poured into it and you can see it everywhere on campus. Whereas UVA is really run down and it has a strong hard-luck vibe now that it didn't have back when I was a student there. I wish I could say that UVA has done a good job keeping up appearances but it just hasn't. Enough said.

There also is a lot to be said for the easy drive to UNC. A straight shot down 95 to 84 on nice straight interstate highways. It is pretty much a piece of cake.

Although in this area there are a lot of UVA supporters it is my opinion that UNC has a better national/international profile and name recognition.

UNC has a better national representation? Haha, no.

UNC definitely has a better international reputation because they pump out far more research. The Shanghai Ranking ranks UNC 23/33 US/Global while UVA is ranked 59-66/151-200.

Nationally, someone in the Midwest or West may know UNC more because of basketball and Duke. Among academics, they know UNC because of the Research Triangle.

In the Mid-Atlantic/NYC area, UVa is probably considered more prestigious, but that may be entirely based on history and somewhat higher average student quality, and also reading USNews a lot.

Again, the problem with UVA is that its research is very weak for a "top" public school. And this does trickle down to undergrads among research universities with better professors, better TA's, better courses, better programs, and better research opportunities

So your theory is a school that prioritizes research is somehow good for undergrads? I'd say find a school that prioritizes undergraduate education. To

OP here. I realized I never specified DC’s major/career plans! Obviously, this might change, but as of right now she is interested in environmental science and biology with a possible minor or double major in politics/political science. Her ultimate goal would be work in climate/environmental policy.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:UNC without a doubt and regardless of the cost differential.

Have you toured the campuses? UNC wins hands down. The campus is beautiful and well-kept. There is a lot of money being poured into it and you can see it everywhere on campus. Whereas UVA is really run down and it has a strong hard-luck vibe now that it didn't have back when I was a student there. I wish I could say that UVA has done a good job keeping up appearances but it just hasn't. Enough said.

There also is a lot to be said for the easy drive to UNC. A straight shot down 95 to 84 on nice straight interstate highways. It is pretty much a piece of cake.

Although in this area there are a lot of UVA supporters it is my opinion that UNC has a better national/international profile and name recognition.

UNC has a better national representation? Haha, no.

UNC definitely has a better international reputation because they pump out far more research. The Shanghai Ranking ranks UNC 23/33 US/Global while UVA is ranked 59-66/151-200.

Nationally, someone in the Midwest or West may know UNC more because of basketball and Duke. Among academics, they know UNC because of the Research Triangle.

In the Mid-Atlantic/NYC area, UVa is probably considered more prestigious, but that may be entirely based on history and somewhat higher average student quality, and also reading USNews a lot.

Again, the problem with UVA is that its research is very weak for a "top" public school. And this does trickle down to undergrads among research universities with better professors, better TA's, better courses, better programs, and better research opportunities

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Which would you pick?

I don't think I'd pay OOS tuition for either. There are many academically comparable private schools where you'll be able to pay less -- and your kid will get more personal attention.

OP here. That was not our experience. The private schools that seem to be in the same tier as these two that DC got into did not give any aid so would be paying $75K + (Rochester and Boston College) which isn’t really in the budget. The two schools that did give her enough aid to make the costs a little bit less ($38K total at Loyola MD and $48K at Syracuse) I don’t think would really be considered academically comparable. Maybe I’m wrong.

You’re not wrong.