Anonymous
02/18/2020 21:58
Subject: Therapist Won't Condemn my Partner's Affair.
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:The therapist is there to support you both in communicating your feelings to each other and helping you to address problems in your relationship. That is next to impossible if one of you believes, correctly or incorrectly, that the therapist is taking sides.
If you will not participate in therapy without the therapist being "on your side" and vocally condemning your partner's affair, you are not ready for therapy. An individual therapist may be in order before you are ready for couples work.
So if her husband beat her you would say it was OK for the therapist to not take sides?
+ 1 I’ve raised the same issue when I talked to my individual therapist about my marriage counselor refusing to condemn behavior. It’s what I don’t get about this profession. People want to act “above the fray” and non-judgmental but where’s the line????
Anonymous
02/18/2020 17:27
Subject: Therapist Won't Condemn my Partner's Affair.
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Condemnation is for the clergy. Go to a priest.
in my first marriage, our secular couple’s therapist was really chill and neutral until he learned about my then-H’s years long, expensive emotional affair. He never used the word wrong, but he said damaging, breach of trust, gaslighting, and a number of other things that were pretty condemning. It temporarily helped us reconcile, but most of all, it helped me move on to divorce eventually.
Did your therapist say all of that in the first session?
Anonymous
02/18/2020 17:25
Subject: Therapist Won't Condemn my Partner's Affair.
Anonymous wrote:Condemnation is for the clergy. Go to a priest.
in my first marriage, our secular couple’s therapist was really chill and neutral until he learned about my then-H’s years long, expensive emotional affair. He never used the word wrong, but he said damaging, breach of trust, gaslighting, and a number of other things that were pretty condemning. It temporarily helped us reconcile, but most of all, it helped me move on to divorce eventually.
Anonymous
02/18/2020 17:20
Subject: Therapist Won't Condemn my Partner's Affair.
Anonymous wrote:If the therapist isn't able to make judgments on behavior, how is the therapist helping? if your partner refuses to acknowledge that having an affair was wrong, why would you be able to rebuild trust? How do you even know the affair is over?
Get a new therapist. No one needs a therapist who just pats their hand and tells them they are a good person. You want a therapist who believes in CHANGING bad behavior, not soothing people who do bad things. That's a waste of time and money.
The point of therapy isn’t to pass judgment and declare winners and losers, perpetrators and victims, it’s to help couples understand themselves and each other better, and to develop tools to improve their relationships and help them manage future conflict more constructively. If your partner doesn’t believe Th at infidelity is wrong and you do, a therapist passing judgment isn’t likely to fix the real problem, which is that you and your partner have different and potentially incompatible values. If your partner knows in their gut that the affair was wrong but has other problems with admitting it, therapy can help work through those issues so the couple can address the infidelity directly. But a therapist condemning the partner for their behavior will only cause that person to shut down and refuse to do the necessary work. After all, the cheating spouse probably had grievances too (not that those justify the affair), and likely won’t feel heard on those if they think the therapist believes them to be a crappy person for cheating.
Anonymous
02/18/2020 17:15
Subject: Therapist Won't Condemn my Partner's Affair.
Anonymous wrote:OP. I’m gonna let you in on a secret learned from the hard experience of my now ex’s infidelity —-
Apologies are words. When (if) you get an apology, you will not know if it is sincere or not. Your DH is a liar and has told you many lies to carry out the affair. An apology may be just one more of the many lies. Or, it’s possible that it may be the last lie - possible but not probable.
You would be much better off watching your DH’s behavior; that is the real tell. Is he remorseful? Does he treat you with kindness? Has he come clean and told you everything without prompting? Does he acknowledge that the affair is stems from his own weakness or does he blame you or the marriage? Is he engaging in DARVO - (deny, attack, reverse victim and offender)? Is making an effort to spend timely pleasantly with you? Is he tolerant when you are triggered? Has he opened all the books, i.e. is he voluntarily giving you full access to all phone, text, email, finances, etc. ?
What he does on his own without prompting from you will really tell you far more than any words of apology.
+1 Apologies and "I love you" are just words. I've apologized. And I've said I love you. And Drive Safely. When I really have meant exactly the opposite.
Anonymous
02/18/2020 17:11
Subject: Therapist Won't Condemn my Partner's Affair.
OP. I’m gonna let you in on a secret learned from the hard experience of my now ex’s infidelity —-
Apologies are words. When (if) you get an apology, you will not know if it is sincere or not. Your DH is a liar and has told you many lies to carry out the affair. An apology may be just one more of the many lies. Or, it’s possible that it may be the last lie - possible but not probable.
You would be much better off watching your DH’s behavior; that is the real tell. Is he remorseful? Does he treat you with kindness? Has he come clean and told you everything without prompting? Does he acknowledge that the affair is stems from his own weakness or does he blame you or the marriage? Is he engaging in DARVO - (deny, attack, reverse victim and offender)? Is making an effort to spend timely pleasantly with you? Is he tolerant when you are triggered? Has he opened all the books, i.e. is he voluntarily giving you full access to all phone, text, email, finances, etc. ?
What he does on his own without prompting from you will really tell you far more than any words of apology.
Apologies are words. When (if) you get an apology, you will not know if it is sincere or not. Your DH is a liar and has told you many lies to carry out the affair. An apology may be just one more of the many lies. Or, it’s possible that it may be the last lie - possible but not probable.
You would be much better off watching your DH’s behavior; that is the real tell. Is he remorseful? Does he treat you with kindness? Has he come clean and told you everything without prompting? Does he acknowledge that the affair is stems from his own weakness or does he blame you or the marriage? Is he engaging in DARVO - (deny, attack, reverse victim and offender)? Is making an effort to spend timely pleasantly with you? Is he tolerant when you are triggered? Has he opened all the books, i.e. is he voluntarily giving you full access to all phone, text, email, finances, etc. ?
What he does on his own without prompting from you will really tell you far more than any words of apology.
Anonymous
02/18/2020 16:59
Subject: Therapist Won't Condemn my Partner's Affair.
Anonymous wrote:I recommend reading The State of Affairs by well-respected couples' therapist Esther Perel.
OP, it is so hurtful when a spouse goes outside the marriage to meet needs, and breaks vows.
But the reasons for an affair are complex and you're not going to find peace looking to blame him alone. If he's simply a bad person, leave him. If he's not, share in discovering why he did what he did and what responsibility you bear for what wasn't right in the relationship.
Ugh. I hate Esther Perel. Terrible advice.
Anonymous
02/18/2020 16:26
Subject: Therapist Won't Condemn my Partner's Affair.
Anonymous wrote:Sorry if I wasn't clear. My partner had an affair. I only discovered because I saw their texts. We decided to try counseling. Partner has yet to apologize or admit they were wrong.
On first visit, the therapist said they were not in a position to make judgement on whether the affair was wrong.
I need there to be an admission and recognition of wrongdoing in order to proceed toward forgiveness.
I was raised that you apologize when you're wrong.
Understood, and agreed.
Did you use your voice to say these things out loud during the session? If not, try it. If so, what was the response?
Anonymous
02/18/2020 16:23
Subject: Therapist Won't Condemn my Partner's Affair.
OP you sound like you want to take your partner to infidelity court. A therapist is not a judge.
Anonymous
02/18/2020 15:45
Subject: Therapist Won't Condemn my Partner's Affair.
Anonymous wrote:If the therapist isn't able to make judgments on behavior, how is the therapist helping? if your partner refuses to acknowledge that having an affair was wrong, why would you be able to rebuild trust? How do you even know the affair is over?
Get a new therapist. No one needs a therapist who just pats their hand and tells them they are a good person. You want a therapist who believes in CHANGING bad behavior, not soothing people who do bad things. That's a waste of time and money.
Stop going to couple's therapy right now. Get your own therapist who is just for you. You need it right now for support. Read Chumplady.com. over and over and over again.
Anonymous
02/18/2020 15:41
Subject: Therapist Won't Condemn my Partner's Affair.
If the therapist isn't able to make judgments on behavior, how is the therapist helping? if your partner refuses to acknowledge that having an affair was wrong, why would you be able to rebuild trust? How do you even know the affair is over?
Get a new therapist. No one needs a therapist who just pats their hand and tells them they are a good person. You want a therapist who believes in CHANGING bad behavior, not soothing people who do bad things. That's a waste of time and money.
Get a new therapist. No one needs a therapist who just pats their hand and tells them they are a good person. You want a therapist who believes in CHANGING bad behavior, not soothing people who do bad things. That's a waste of time and money.
Anonymous
02/18/2020 15:26
Subject: Therapist Won't Condemn my Partner's Affair.
Anonymous wrote:Sorry if I wasn't clear. My partner had an affair. I only discovered because I saw their texts. We decided to try counseling. Partner has yet to apologize or admit they were wrong.
On first visit, the therapist said they were not in a position to make judgement on whether the affair was wrong.
I need there to be an admission and recognition of wrongdoing in order to proceed toward forgiveness.
I was raised that you apologize when you're wrong.
This is a huge red flag to me. Your partner should not require therapy for this.
15 years ago my husband had an EA. I confronted him and he immediately accepted blame, begged forgiveness and swore off any further contact of any kind. Immediately. And he kept his word. Anything short of that I don’t think I could have stayed with him.
Refusing to admit fault and apologize amounts to gaslighting and or lack of remorse to me.
Anonymous
02/18/2020 15:24
Subject: Therapist Won't Condemn my Partner's Affair.
Anonymous wrote:I recommend reading The State of Affairs by well-respected couples' therapist Esther Perel.
OP, it is so hurtful when a spouse goes outside the marriage to meet needs, and breaks vows.
But the reasons for an affair are complex and you're not going to find peace looking to blame him alone. If he's simply a bad person, leave him. If he's not, share in discovering why he did what he did and what responsibility you bear for what wasn't right in the relationship.
That's not actually what she said. What Perel urges is trying to understand why your partner did what they did. NOT that every victim is somehow responsible for the affair. I've listened to her podcasts, and she can be quite blunt and direct with the partner who behaved badly. Her main difference is that she tries to get the wronged partner to understand what happened and see if the relationship can survive and change.
Anonymous
02/18/2020 15:21
Subject: Re:Therapist Won't Condemn my Partner's Affair.
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
I recommend reading The State of Affairs by well-respected couples' therapist Esther Perel.
OP, it is so hurtful when a spouse goes outside the marriage to meet needs, and breaks vows.
But the reasons for an affair are complex and you're not going to find peace looking to blame him alone. If he's simply a bad person, leave him. If he's not, share in discovering why he did what he did and what responsibility you bear for what wasn't right in the relationship.
+1
No I recommend you not read her book she writes books to make money and she is not a well respected psychologist.
+2. Don’t read Esther Perel.
+3000. Esther Perel is not well-respected, and is known to blame the betrayed spouse. Nothing one partner does in a relationship is the cause of the other partner having an affair. The bad choices have to be owned by the person who made them.
I think survivinginfidelity has lots of great advice.
Anonymous
02/18/2020 15:07
Subject: Therapist Won't Condemn my Partner's Affair.
Yep, another vote for “that’s not your job.” It’s also not helpful to anyone for you to attempt to control and set the terms for therapy sessions based on the other people involved not doing what you want them to. Are you starting to see some of the root issues here yet?