I responded early about the dehumanization aspect of the word. I don’t think it’s racist but I do believe the word should be eliminated it has no redeeming value and it’s harsh history will never be negated.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^^ OP here and, sorry, but I disagree with the two previous PPs. Adult women listening to rap is one thing - you do you. It's not my cup of tea, but whatever.

It's very different when 15 year old boys, who have no life experience, no perspective, no frame of reference about women, no real experience in dealing with racism, etc etc, are enamored with this music that glorifies violence, misogyny and racism. Another PP mentioned the importance of making sure that he knows it's only "art," and that the message is to stop when he turns the music off.

I think that's a hell of a lot to expect from kids.

Um, are your kids listening to some kind of alt-right hip hop? Because if not and you are talking about black artists using the n-word in their lyrics, that's not racism. If you think it is, then I think you don't know many black teenagers. I'm no authority, but in my limited experience as a middle aged white Jew (but parent of a kid that's in a majority black school and whose friends are mostly black), it seems like black young people using the n-word is about identity and unity and standing up to racism.

It's not really a good analogy, but growing up in the south, my Jewish friends and I would use certain particularly ridiculous epithets for Jews toward each other, but we would fight any non-Jew that said something overtly anti-Semitic. It was a way of sharing some unity in an environment where anti-Semitism was pretty common and considered acceptable.

Nice try, but sorry. It's extremely racist.

DP. It's not racist for them to reframe the power the word. But you knew that, and still want someone to cater to your white fragility.

I was raised on a steady diet of vile rap, woman-objectifying glam rock, depressive and suicidal heavy metal, and Nine Inch Nails (industrial? I don't know Trent Reznor's in a class by himself). Never, even as a dumbass teenager, did I think that the lyrics were some sort of inspired mantra for how I should live my life. Most of this music still resides in my master playlist, and I listen to some subset of it every day. It's art, and art is provocative and objectionable and varies widely in quality.

Despite this, I am a functional adult with a good job, health insurance, my own home, and several degrees. I've even managed to avoid being arrested! I manage not to get into altercations with authority, use the lyrics to inform my relationships with women or men, or take the amount of drugs suggested by some of the songs. Just like my parents did not drop out of society despite very much enjoying hippy, free-love, and folk music.

If you sit down and listen to the actual lyrics of nearly any genre of music, you're going to find something offensive. I laugh at the idea of country music being so clean - it's got misogyny, running out on your family, and, though I make an exception and do love Willie Nelson, drug and alcohol use. But it's a bunch of white guys singing it, so it's not "vile", right? So many others.... The Police? Prostitution and pedophilia. Aerosmith, good lord, where to start. Jimmy Buffett literally has a song called "Why Don't We Get Drunk (and Screw)?".

Long story short, the majority of non-classical music is going to have something that someone objects to, going waaaaayyyy back to the provocative music of Elvis, and the goal should be to raise a kid who doesn't hear a catchy tune and not have the mental prowess to think that it's an instruction manual for life.

And don't be such a pearl-clutcher.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just remember the Who sang "I want to be your backdoor man" and Roxanne by the Police is about a prostitute.

I listens to it with them and then say... next when I can't stand it. haha, the kids get to the point where they say... okay this one you won't like, and this one, okay this one is good.

Oh, hell, let's go back to Jelly Roll Morton and The Murder Ballad. It's FILTHY! I highly recommend a listen.

I love that! I remember seeing Jelly's Last Jam on Broadway and Jelly Roll off Broadway the same weekend, back in the day.

Anonymous wrote:^^ OP here and, sorry, but I disagree with the two previous PPs. Adult women listening to rap is one thing - you do you. It's not my cup of tea, but whatever.

It's very different when 15 year old boys, who have no life experience, no perspective, no frame of reference about women, no real experience in dealing with racism, etc etc, are enamored with this music that glorifies violence, misogyny and racism. Another PP mentioned the importance of making sure that he knows it's only "art," and that the message is to stop when he turns the music off.

I think that's a hell of a lot to expect from kids.

Then you should also ban them from the violent and misogynistic video games they play constantly.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I listen to vile rap and I am a 42 yo woman. Your son will be fine.

It's narcissistic to think everybody wants their child to end up like you. Maybe you are that way because of all the vile rap.

PP, have you considered trying some drugs? Not prescription ones, the kind you get from strange older kids in leather jackets that hang out by garbage cans.

Anonymous wrote:Just remember the Who sang "I want to be your backdoor man" and Roxanne by the Police is about a prostitute.

I listens to it with them and then say... next when I can't stand it. haha, the kids get to the point where they say... okay this one you won't like, and this one, okay this one is good.

Oh, hell, let's go back to Jelly Roll Morton and The Murder Ballad. It's FILTHY! I highly recommend a listen.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^^ OP here and, sorry, but I disagree with the two previous PPs. Adult women listening to rap is one thing - you do you. It's not my cup of tea, but whatever.

It's very different when 15 year old boys, who have no life experience, no perspective, no frame of reference about women, no real experience in dealing with racism, etc etc, are enamored with this music that glorifies violence, misogyny and racism. Another PP mentioned the importance of making sure that he knows it's only "art," and that the message is to stop when he turns the music off.

I think that's a hell of a lot to expect from kids.

Um, are your kids listening to some kind of alt-right hip hop? Because if not and you are talking about black artists using the n-word in their lyrics, that's not racism. If you think it is, then I think you don't know many black teenagers. I'm no authority, but in my limited experience as a middle aged white Jew (but parent of a kid that's in a majority black school and whose friends are mostly black), it seems like black young people using the n-word is about identity and unity and standing up to racism.

It's not really a good analogy, but growing up in the south, my Jewish friends and I would use certain particularly ridiculous epithets for Jews toward each other, but we would fight any non-Jew that said something overtly anti-Semitic. It was a way of sharing some unity in an environment where anti-Semitism was pretty common and considered acceptable.

Nice try, but sorry. It's extremely racist.

Different poster, no it isn’t racist when black people use the word. It’s racist when anyone else uses the word.

What if it’s the white racist media that wants it that way? That they are normalizing the world so that minorities continue to feel no better than the n-word? Ever wonder why no other culture in America degrades their own?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^^ OP here and, sorry, but I disagree with the two previous PPs. Adult women listening to rap is one thing - you do you. It's not my cup of tea, but whatever.

It's very different when 15 year old boys, who have no life experience, no perspective, no frame of reference about women, no real experience in dealing with racism, etc etc, are enamored with this music that glorifies violence, misogyny and racism. Another PP mentioned the importance of making sure that he knows it's only "art," and that the message is to stop when he turns the music off.

I think that's a hell of a lot to expect from kids.

Um, are your kids listening to some kind of alt-right hip hop? Because if not and you are talking about black artists using the n-word in their lyrics, that's not racism. If you think it is, then I think you don't know many black teenagers. I'm no authority, but in my limited experience as a middle aged white Jew (but parent of a kid that's in a majority black school and whose friends are mostly black), it seems like black young people using the n-word is about identity and unity and standing up to racism.

It's not really a good analogy, but growing up in the south, my Jewish friends and I would use certain particularly ridiculous epithets for Jews toward each other, but we would fight any non-Jew that said something overtly anti-Semitic. It was a way of sharing some unity in an environment where anti-Semitism was pretty common and considered acceptable.

Nice try, but sorry. It's extremely racist.

Different poster, no it isn’t racist when black people use the word. It’s racist when anyone else uses the word.

Of course it is. It is an ugly, racist word, no matter who says it. You can't have it both ways, PP. The word is utterly offensive, no matter from whom it comes.

+1 you can’t reclaim an offensive word meant to dehumanize. If you want to call your friends racist words in private have at it but the word is offensive and should be eliminated from public use just like the f word for gays and the r word for people with developmental disabilities.

There are far worse things teen could be doing. If this is the worst of it count your blessings

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^^ OP here and, sorry, but I disagree with the two previous PPs. Adult women listening to rap is one thing - you do you. It's not my cup of tea, but whatever.

It's very different when 15 year old boys, who have no life experience, no perspective, no frame of reference about women, no real experience in dealing with racism, etc etc, are enamored with this music that glorifies violence, misogyny and racism. Another PP mentioned the importance of making sure that he knows it's only "art," and that the message is to stop when he turns the music off.

I think that's a hell of a lot to expect from kids.

Um, are your kids listening to some kind of alt-right hip hop? Because if not and you are talking about black artists using the n-word in their lyrics, that's not racism. If you think it is, then I think you don't know many black teenagers. I'm no authority, but in my limited experience as a middle aged white Jew (but parent of a kid that's in a majority black school and whose friends are mostly black), it seems like black young people using the n-word is about identity and unity and standing up to racism.

It's not really a good analogy, but growing up in the south, my Jewish friends and I would use certain particularly ridiculous epithets for Jews toward each other, but we would fight any non-Jew that said something overtly anti-Semitic. It was a way of sharing some unity in an environment where anti-Semitism was pretty common and considered acceptable.

Nice try, but sorry. It's extremely racist.

Different poster, no it isn’t racist when black people use the word. It’s racist when anyone else uses the word.

Of course it is. It is an ugly, racist word, no matter who says it. You can't have it both ways, PP. The word is utterly offensive, no matter from whom it comes.

Anonymous wrote:Agree with PPs who said an outright ban isn't going to get you anywhere. Kids have been watching and listening to scandalous music since Tipper Gore's Neanderthal ancestor complained that some of the cave kids were banging two sticks together in a manner that was entirely too suggestive for a family drum circle.

I encourage my kid to be the car DJ, but have a loose "three strikes" rule -- if I raise my eyebrows at a word or phrase too often, I ask for the next song. I also wax pedantic about racist/sexist/dangerous lyrics -- as you would imagine, he loves that, and so those songs don't get played as much. Win-win.

It's fun to listen to them "discover" artists, and to be shocked that their old mom knows something about them too. Sort of how our parents bit their tongues when we blasted the Rolling Stones.

This is my approach too. I don’t censor anything. But when something comes on along the lines of “your ho is sleeping with me ‘cause I have more money,” I make sure to point out all the sexism and warped values. As a result, he tends to play Ed Sheeran in my car or somebody more indie but creative.

The good news is that they grow out of it after a few years. At least, my kid now in college grew out of it.

Let him listen. Mine lost interest as a junior or senior in HS. He is now a freshman in college and is also into the Beatles and other artists through the decades. It's fun to pull out my vinyl and show him my collection of music that he currently listens to.

You can’t shelter him from it. Talk him through it. As simple and as difficult as that....

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^^ OP here and, sorry, but I disagree with the two previous PPs. Adult women listening to rap is one thing - you do you. It's not my cup of tea, but whatever.

It's very different when 15 year old boys, who have no life experience, no perspective, no frame of reference about women, no real experience in dealing with racism, etc etc, are enamored with this music that glorifies violence, misogyny and racism. Another PP mentioned the importance of making sure that he knows it's only "art," and that the message is to stop when he turns the music off.

I think that's a hell of a lot to expect from kids.

Um, are your kids listening to some kind of alt-right hip hop? Because if not and you are talking about black artists using the n-word in their lyrics, that's not racism. If you think it is, then I think you don't know many black teenagers. I'm no authority, but in my limited experience as a middle aged white Jew (but parent of a kid that's in a majority black school and whose friends are mostly black), it seems like black young people using the n-word is about identity and unity and standing up to racism.

It's not really a good analogy, but growing up in the south, my Jewish friends and I would use certain particularly ridiculous epithets for Jews toward each other, but we would fight any non-Jew that said something overtly anti-Semitic. It was a way of sharing some unity in an environment where anti-Semitism was pretty common and considered acceptable.

Nice try, but sorry. It's extremely racist.

Different poster, no it isn’t racist when black people use the word. It’s racist when anyone else uses the word.