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Anonymous wrote:Minivan all the way! We have a 15 y.o odyssey and I test drove a bunch of SUVs to replace it. Nothing comes close in terms of interior space relative to the exterior dimensions.

Also, jumping onto the Tesla debate, my general advice for people is to look at the value proposition. Cost per mile over 5 or 7 years (or however long you think you'll keep the car) as well as convenience. I think the Tesla fails on both counts. I know it goes from 0-60 in 2 or 3 seconds (or something along those lines).. But I don't plan on being the getaway driver in a bank robbery anytime soon, so don't really care about that metric..

You are completely missing the point of electric vehicles. I don't care that it accelerates quickly. The freaking planet is on *fire*. Continuing to prioritize your convenience and comfort over global warming is pretty indefensible.

A vehicle powered by electricity that is generated by burning fossil fuels. Cutting out the middleman and just driving a car powered by actual fossil fuels is arguably better for the environment.

I've always wondered about this aspect of Teslas - when people say they buy them for the enviro benefits, not the luxury car-ness. The real climate activists I know either don't drive or drive hybrids, which to me make more sense. But I must admit I don't really know all that much; I'm perfectly happy in my regular ol' car.

I am a "never-Tesla" car guy, though I am a huge fan of Elon Musk and Tesla as a company. The products they make are just not for me even though I see that they are awesome and well made products.

In terms of energy efficiency, there is no question that Tesla is better than traditional cars in this regard. The energy conversion efficiency for a fossil fuel power plant is about 40%. There is about a 10% loss in the transmission, and a further 10% loss in a Tesla vehicle, so we get about 32% final efficiency when driving a Tesla. This compared to about 20% efficiency of the typical modern internal combusion engine gasoline car.

This is before considering the fact that the electrical grid can be fed from a variety of other sources, including hydro, wind, solar, and nuclear power plants. There is no question that a Tesla is good for the environment in terms of energy efficiency.

As to who buys Teslas - it's typically a working professional or small business owner who likes technolgy and is otherwise not a car guy. To these people, a Tesla checks a lot of boxes for being relatively unique/exclusive, has a lot of neat technology, and comes with none of the baggage associated with normal cars. This is why pre-ordering is such a phenomenon with Teslas.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Minivan all the way! We have a 15 y.o odyssey and I test drove a bunch of SUVs to replace it. Nothing comes close in terms of interior space relative to the exterior dimensions.

Also, jumping onto the Tesla debate, my general advice for people is to look at the value proposition. Cost per mile over 5 or 7 years (or however long you think you'll keep the car) as well as convenience. I think the Tesla fails on both counts. I know it goes from 0-60 in 2 or 3 seconds (or something along those lines).. But I don't plan on being the getaway driver in a bank robbery anytime soon, so don't really care about that metric..

You are completely missing the point of electric vehicles. I don't care that it accelerates quickly. The freaking planet is on *fire*. Continuing to prioritize your convenience and comfort over global warming is pretty indefensible.

A vehicle powered by electricity that is generated by burning fossil fuels. Cutting out the middleman and just driving a car powered by actual fossil fuels is arguably better for the environment.

I've always wondered about this aspect of Teslas - when people say they buy them for the enviro benefits, not the luxury car-ness. The real climate activists I know either don't drive or drive hybrids, which to me make more sense. But I must admit I don't really know all that much; I'm perfectly happy in my regular ol' car.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Minivan all the way! We have a 15 y.o odyssey and I test drove a bunch of SUVs to replace it. Nothing comes close in terms of interior space relative to the exterior dimensions.

Also, jumping onto the Tesla debate, my general advice for people is to look at the value proposition. Cost per mile over 5 or 7 years (or however long you think you'll keep the car) as well as convenience. I think the Tesla fails on both counts. I know it goes from 0-60 in 2 or 3 seconds (or something along those lines).. But I don't plan on being the getaway driver in a bank robbery anytime soon, so don't really care about that metric..

You are completely missing the point of electric vehicles. I don't care that it accelerates quickly. The freaking planet is on *fire*. Continuing to prioritize your convenience and comfort over global warming is pretty indefensible.

A vehicle powered by electricity that is generated by burning fossil fuels. Cutting out the middleman and just driving a car powered by actual fossil fuels is arguably better for the environment.

Anonymous wrote:Minivan all the way! We have a 15 y.o odyssey and I test drove a bunch of SUVs to replace it. Nothing comes close in terms of interior space relative to the exterior dimensions.

Also, jumping onto the Tesla debate, my general advice for people is to look at the value proposition. Cost per mile over 5 or 7 years (or however long you think you'll keep the car) as well as convenience. I think the Tesla fails on both counts. I know it goes from 0-60 in 2 or 3 seconds (or something along those lines).. But I don't plan on being the getaway driver in a bank robbery anytime soon, so don't really care about that metric..

You are completely missing the point of electric vehicles. I don't care that it accelerates quickly. The freaking planet is on *fire*. Continuing to prioritize your convenience and comfort over global warming is pretty indefensible.

Minivan all the way! We have a 15 y.o odyssey and I test drove a bunch of SUVs to replace it. Nothing comes close in terms of interior space relative to the exterior dimensions.

Also, jumping onto the Tesla debate, my general advice for people is to look at the value proposition. Cost per mile over 5 or 7 years (or however long you think you'll keep the car) as well as convenience. I think the Tesla fails on both counts. I know it goes from 0-60 in 2 or 3 seconds (or something along those lines).. But I don't plan on being the getaway driver in a bank robbery anytime soon, so don't really care about that metric..

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Anonymous wrote:Renewable energy, at least when we charge at home (we're on wind power).

No you’re not. You have no idea how the power grid works, do you?

So enlighten me. Although, I suspect you just like to dump on people who are trying to do right by the environment, and I'm so tired of it. You can make excuses all you want. Some of us are actually trying to do something, imperfect though that may be.

Some of the electrons flowing to you house was shaken free from a turbine driven by steam that is fired by fossil fuels.

Acadia

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Anonymous wrote:My issue with the Tesla isn't the stopping, it's how long it takes the charge once you stop, and that you have to find a plug so you can't do it the most efficient way. There are only so many super chargers around right? Otherwise it can take awhile! So it's not just that you are stopping, you have to stop for awhile each time.

IME, as a Tesla owner for ~3 years, we've had no issues with supercharging. Tesla's building more and more of them, and do a great job of choosing locations near various food options. We don't have to "find a plug," we pull up, plug in, eat/hit the restroom, and go.

Also, even if you have to stop for a while each time, it's worth it to us. It's not just about our convenience on road trips.

How long does it take? Do you pay?

How long it takes depends on how much we need to charge. It almost never is longer than our stop otherwise would be, put it that way.

We bought long enough ago that we don't pay anything.

I’m sorry, but what does THAT mean? 20 minutes? 2 hours? Overnight? And “how much you need to charge?” If you are on a road trip, wouldn’t you need a complete charge? How long does that take?

And I don’t know how to decipher your other comment either. Is charging free for owners? Some owners? All owners? How does that work?

-Breathe
-When you enter your road trip final destination, the Tesla map automatically identifies where you need to stop and charge along the way and it estimates how long each stop will take, depending on how long you drove. That can vary somewhat, but usually it's pretty accurate
-I don't think we've ever *needed* to charge for more than 45 minutes. We don't run the battery to zero, and the superchargers are fast
-We bought in 2016; at that point, they offered free supercharging for all Tesla owners. At some point since then, that changed, and so people who purchase Teslas now do need to pay for supercharging. I'm not sure how much that costs.

I would imagine all of this information is available via Google, too.

Thank you. You’ve completely talked me out of ever owning a Tesla until they make one that can go at least 500 miles without charging.

So it's All About You, huh? I hope some small part of you is ashamed of how you prioritize your convenience over the environment. I definitely don't expect everyone to buy Teslas, but I would hope that most people aren't as selfish as you. Sadly, I think I'm wrong about that.

Most people cannot afford Tesla's or their repairs.

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Anonymous wrote:I would think the sliding doors of the mini van would be much more practical than the doors going up on the Tesla. I am always parking in tight spaces in Bethesda (Giant, garages, etc.). Also, I like sitting higher in the mini van. I am sure the Tesla is great for many reasons, but there is nothing like the space and comfort of a mini van!

Except that the Tesla doors have better clearance than minivan doors. Trust me, I park in tight spaces, too, so I'm well aware of how convenient they are. They have sensors and can articulate at various angles.

Minivans probably do have more space inside, but our Tesla is pretty comfortable. Also, you know, the gas thing, but it sounds like you don't care about that. (it's not all about your space and comfort)

You are right, I care about space and comfort! I'm ok with the gas.

It’s not about you. It’s about those four grandchildren in car seats who you drive around so frequently that you need a special vehicle, and the future of the planet.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Renewable energy, at least when we charge at home (we're on wind power).

No you’re not. You have no idea how the power grid works, do you?

So enlighten me. Although, I suspect you just like to dump on people who are trying to do right by the environment, and I'm so tired of it. You can make excuses all you want. Some of us are actually trying to do something, imperfect though that may be.

Anonymous wrote:Renewable energy, at least when we charge at home (we're on wind power).

No you’re not. You have no idea how the power grid works, do you?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would think the sliding doors of the mini van would be much more practical than the doors going up on the Tesla. I am always parking in tight spaces in Bethesda (Giant, garages, etc.). Also, I like sitting higher in the mini van. I am sure the Tesla is great for many reasons, but there is nothing like the space and comfort of a mini van!

Except that the Tesla doors have better clearance than minivan doors. Trust me, I park in tight spaces, too, so I'm well aware of how convenient they are. They have sensors and can articulate at various angles.

Minivans probably do have more space inside, but our Tesla is pretty comfortable. Also, you know, the gas thing, but it sounds like you don't care about that. (it's not all about your space and comfort)

You are right, I care about space and comfort! I'm ok with the gas.

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Anonymous wrote:My issue with the Tesla isn't the stopping, it's how long it takes the charge once you stop, and that you have to find a plug so you can't do it the most efficient way. There are only so many super chargers around right? Otherwise it can take awhile! So it's not just that you are stopping, you have to stop for awhile each time.

IME, as a Tesla owner for ~3 years, we've had no issues with supercharging. Tesla's building more and more of them, and do a great job of choosing locations near various food options. We don't have to "find a plug," we pull up, plug in, eat/hit the restroom, and go.

Also, even if you have to stop for a while each time, it's worth it to us. It's not just about our convenience on road trips.

How long does it take? Do you pay?

How long it takes depends on how much we need to charge. It almost never is longer than our stop otherwise would be, put it that way.

We bought long enough ago that we don't pay anything.

I’m sorry, but what does THAT mean? 20 minutes? 2 hours? Overnight? And “how much you need to charge?” If you are on a road trip, wouldn’t you need a complete charge? How long does that take?

And I don’t know how to decipher your other comment either. Is charging free for owners? Some owners? All owners? How does that work?

-Breathe
-When you enter your road trip final destination, the Tesla map automatically identifies where you need to stop and charge along the way and it estimates how long each stop will take, depending on how long you drove. That can vary somewhat, but usually it's pretty accurate
-I don't think we've ever *needed* to charge for more than 45 minutes. We don't run the battery to zero, and the superchargers are fast
-We bought in 2016; at that point, they offered free supercharging for all Tesla owners. At some point since then, that changed, and so people who purchase Teslas now do need to pay for supercharging. I'm not sure how much that costs.

I would imagine all of this information is available via Google, too.

Thank you. You’ve completely talked me out of ever owning a Tesla until they make one that can go at least 500 miles without charging.

So it's All About You, huh? I hope some small part of you is ashamed of how you prioritize your convenience over the environment. I definitely don't expect everyone to buy Teslas, but I would hope that most people aren't as selfish as you. Sadly, I think I'm wrong about that.

Oh please. Where do you think the electricity for that car comes from? And I’m driving cars well over 10 years old. Not buying a new car at all is doing more for the environment than your feel good Tesla movement. It’s not all that, and neither are you.

Renewable energy, at least when we charge at home (we're on wind power). You do know renewable energy is a thing, right?

I never claimed to be all that, either. Stop projecting your defensiveness onto me.

Anonymous wrote:I would think the sliding doors of the mini van would be much more practical than the doors going up on the Tesla. I am always parking in tight spaces in Bethesda (Giant, garages, etc.). Also, I like sitting higher in the mini van. I am sure the Tesla is great for many reasons, but there is nothing like the space and comfort of a mini van!

Except that the Tesla doors have better clearance than minivan doors. Trust me, I park in tight spaces, too, so I'm well aware of how convenient they are. They have sensors and can articulate at various angles.

Minivans probably do have more space inside, but our Tesla is pretty comfortable. Also, you know, the gas thing, but it sounds like you don't care about that. (it's not all about your space and comfort)

I would think the sliding doors of the mini van would be much more practical than the doors going up on the Tesla. I am always parking in tight spaces in Bethesda (Giant, garages, etc.). Also, I like sitting higher in the mini van. I am sure the Tesla is great for many reasons, but there is nothing like the space and comfort of a mini van!