Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^^ But the point is some ‘struggle’ is normal for breastfeeding. Many, many babies don’t just pop out and know exactly how to make it work. It often takes time, effort, trial and error. How much struggle is worth it is an individual choice, but to say that it “shouldn’t” be a struggle is ignorant.

There has to be some logical standard of how much struggle is too much, and that's basically ignored by all of the lactation industry/public health propaganda. A small amount of struggle, sure. Tripe feeding, exclusive pumping, baby always on the verge of starving ... too much.

Interesting that you trust the food industry propaganda over the public health propaganda.

Anonymous wrote:I’ve BTDT. I thought my DH, mom and MIL were all conspiring against me to sabotage my BF efforts! I now realize they were trying to help a struggling, suffering new mom who was desperately trying to do what’s best for her child. In retrospect I should have listened to them.

Same experience for me too. And several other moms I know. They all pretty much wish they could go back and take their family's advice. The struggle wasn't worth it

My struggle with PPd was partially caused by my struggle to breastfeed. I felt like such a failure. Oddly, at that time, this forum was extremely pro breastfeeding and there were multiple posts about how bad formula, how inferior it was, etc etc. It just led to me feeling like an even worse mom.

I’ve BTDT. I thought my DH, mom and MIL were all conspiring against me to sabotage my BF efforts! I now realize they were trying to help a struggling, suffering new mom who was desperately trying to do what’s best for her child. In retrospect I should have listened to them.

Anonymous wrote:^^ But the point is some ‘struggle’ is normal for breastfeeding. Many, many babies don’t just pop out and know exactly how to make it work. It often takes time, effort, trial and error. How much struggle is worth it is an individual choice, but to say that it “shouldn’t” be a struggle is ignorant.

There has to be some logical standard of how much struggle is too much, and that's basically ignored by all of the lactation industry/public health propaganda. A small amount of struggle, sure. Tripe feeding, exclusive pumping, baby always on the verge of starving ... too much.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Poster above.

I disagree with others saying you ate being “too” sensitive. It is a sensitive time for many good reasons. Others atound you should be extra-sensitive too!

I don’t blame you for your feelings, though I too think you just have to push them outof your focus.

Disagree. I think OP needs to interrogate her feelings, and ask why she is having this reaction over a simple act that she's going to be repeating over and over again for 18 years: feeding her child. There is NO reason that feeding a child EVER needs to be a "struggle." Zero reason. OP needs to ask herself on what basis she is CHOSING to engage in this self-described struggle to feed her child. What information, ideals, and values are driving her to chose to struggle, when there are other options that are perfectly fine (formula)? What's the cost/benefit?

You're being incredibly simplistic and dismissive here, and portraying significantly more ill-intent than OP's MIL. Feeding a newborn is profoundly fraught, breastfeeding is portrayed as not only healthy ("gold standard") and natural, but formula feeding is portrayed as selfish, ignorant, and a failure on the mom's part (to either understand the wonders of BF or to have a "perfectly natural!" body that creates enough milk to keep a baby alive and thriving). Add in huge hormone swings, sleep deprivation, and recovery from any form of childbirth, and your insistence that this is a simple act that no one should ever struggle with is, well, stupid.

Also the word you're looking for is "choose/choosing."

You seem to be missing the point. Feeding a newborn should NOT be "profoundly fraught.' No more than feeding your child at any other point in their lives. You feed the baby. If breastfeeding doesn't work and is a self-described "struggle," then you need to think about why this basic parenting act (feeding) has become so hard.

At least you're consistent. Simplistic, dismissive, and oblivious to the concept of human emotions, but consistently!

Wait til your kids are older.
- new poster

I am not OP. I do not have a newborn. I do have a memory and empathy, and understand that there is a difference between deciding between formula and breastfeeding 3 weeks postpartum and deciding between Chikfila and Chipotle on the way to a tournament.

The difference is created by myriad pressures that are irrational. The decision to breastfeed or bottle feed actually should not be any different from school lunch vs home lunch.

But it’s not that simple if you conclude breastfeeding to be somewhat superior. I think that. Ignoring the inconclusive debate over nutritional issues, breastfeeding is ultimately mu h more convenient. And both my children had food and dairy sensitivities that made formula and, later, milk problematic.

I’m the poster from the first page that struggled for 6 weeks until my baby suddenly got it. Many of you would have thought I was insane, but I was determined at the time for many reasons. But not only did I bf that baby more than 1 year, I breastfed my second child for more than a year. I’m doubtful that the second round would have worked so well if the first round never succeeded. 6 weeks of misery for 2.5 years combined of breastfeeding was worth it to me.

on what planet does a "somewhat superior" food choice justify all the angst, drama, pain, and exhaustion that some women go through to breastfeed? on no planet, is the answer. there is literally no other food choice that would ever be accompanied by such drama after breastfeeding on the grounds of being "somewhat superior." glad it worked out for you, but it's basically irrational.

I blame society for pressuring new moms. A fed baby is best. A rested mom is even better.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You are being understandably sensitive. But as an outsider with kids beyond that stage, I can also imagine MIL's point of view. You are putting a lot of effort into something she chose not to do, or was unable to do. She might be feeling self-conscious, or even have feelings of regret and guilt. Giving you formula might be a away to push those feeling aside. On the other hand, maybe she has no regrets about not breastfeeding and hopes that she could help you feel better about a possible scenario in which you switch to formula. In either case, it's about her, not you.

Which sucks for OP, because this is a time that a woman really needs it to be about her and have the people around her focus on her. Instead, OP has to deal with a MIL who is all about herself.

Sometimes focusing on a post-partum mother means encouraging her not to be so hard on herself. What do you think a medical professional or husband should do if the mother is running herself ragged insisting on breastfeeding? Or if the baby is not thriving? It's attitudes like "focus on the mother, who is operating under extreme ideological pressures!" that really get me.

Only about 2% of women and infants have medical reasons precluding them from breastfeeding. Breastfeeding in the early weeks is a struggle for both mom and baby, until they both achieve mastery and establish milk supply. Struggle is a completely normal thing and baby and parents will struggle through many developmental phases. Sleep training is just around the corner...

Not true. Delayed lactation is MUCH more common than 2% (it's up to 15%). And, there's no reason that infant feeding needs to be a struggle at all. Breastfeeding is totally optional in this society. There's no reason to expend additional family resources on it. Struggle is NOT normal. Not any more normal than a woman deciding that she has to "struggle" to grind her own wheat to make bread, sew all the family clothes, scrub the floor on her hands and knees, wash all the dishes by hand ...

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You are being understandably sensitive. But as an outsider with kids beyond that stage, I can also imagine MIL's point of view. You are putting a lot of effort into something she chose not to do, or was unable to do. She might be feeling self-conscious, or even have feelings of regret and guilt. Giving you formula might be a away to push those feeling aside. On the other hand, maybe she has no regrets about not breastfeeding and hopes that she could help you feel better about a possible scenario in which you switch to formula. In either case, it's about her, not you.

Which sucks for OP, because this is a time that a woman really needs it to be about her and have the people around her focus on her. Instead, OP has to deal with a MIL who is all about herself.

Sometimes focusing on a post-partum mother means encouraging her not to be so hard on herself. What do you think a medical professional or husband should do if the mother is running herself ragged insisting on breastfeeding? Or if the baby is not thriving? It's attitudes like "focus on the mother, who is operating under extreme ideological pressures!" that really get me.

Only about 2% of women and infants have medical reasons precluding them from breastfeeding. Breastfeeding in the early weeks is a struggle for both mom and baby, until they both achieve mastery and establish milk supply. Struggle is a completely normal thing and baby and parents will struggle through many developmental phases. Sleep training is just around the corner...

Your post is not relevant. Op should do what she wants, and if her family is caring, they'll support her decision. It doesn't matter that YOU believe struggle is normal. Your opinion doesn't matter here.

This thread has an OP, she decides what is relevant to her. You are irrelevant.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Poster above.

I disagree with others saying you ate being “too” sensitive. It is a sensitive time for many good reasons. Others atound you should be extra-sensitive too!

I don’t blame you for your feelings, though I too think you just have to push them outof your focus.

Disagree. I think OP needs to interrogate her feelings, and ask why she is having this reaction over a simple act that she's going to be repeating over and over again for 18 years: feeding her child. There is NO reason that feeding a child EVER needs to be a "struggle." Zero reason. OP needs to ask herself on what basis she is CHOSING to engage in this self-described struggle to feed her child. What information, ideals, and values are driving her to chose to struggle, when there are other options that are perfectly fine (formula)? What's the cost/benefit?

You're being incredibly simplistic and dismissive here, and portraying significantly more ill-intent than OP's MIL. Feeding a newborn is profoundly fraught, breastfeeding is portrayed as not only healthy ("gold standard") and natural, but formula feeding is portrayed as selfish, ignorant, and a failure on the mom's part (to either understand the wonders of BF or to have a "perfectly natural!" body that creates enough milk to keep a baby alive and thriving). Add in huge hormone swings, sleep deprivation, and recovery from any form of childbirth, and your insistence that this is a simple act that no one should ever struggle with is, well, stupid.

Also the word you're looking for is "choose/choosing."

You seem to be missing the point. Feeding a newborn should NOT be "profoundly fraught.' No more than feeding your child at any other point in their lives. You feed the baby. If breastfeeding doesn't work and is a self-described "struggle," then you need to think about why this basic parenting act (feeding) has become so hard.

At least you're consistent. Simplistic, dismissive, and oblivious to the concept of human emotions, but consistently!

Wait til your kids are older.
- new poster

I am not OP. I do not have a newborn. I do have a memory and empathy, and understand that there is a difference between deciding between formula and breastfeeding 3 weeks postpartum and deciding between Chikfila and Chipotle on the way to a tournament.

The difference is created by myriad pressures that are irrational. The decision to breastfeed or bottle feed actually should not be any different from school lunch vs home lunch.

But it’s not that simple if you conclude breastfeeding to be somewhat superior. I think that. Ignoring the inconclusive debate over nutritional issues, breastfeeding is ultimately mu h more convenient. And both my children had food and dairy sensitivities that made formula and, later, milk problematic.

I’m the poster from the first page that struggled for 6 weeks until my baby suddenly got it. Many of you would have thought I was insane, but I was determined at the time for many reasons. But not only did I bf that baby more than 1 year, I breastfed my second child for more than a year. I’m doubtful that the second round would have worked so well if the first round never succeeded. 6 weeks of misery for 2.5 years combined of breastfeeding was worth it to me.

on what planet does a "somewhat superior" food choice justify all the angst, drama, pain, and exhaustion that some women go through to breastfeed? on no planet, is the answer. there is literally no other food choice that would ever be accompanied by such drama after breastfeeding on the grounds of being "somewhat superior." glad it worked out for you, but it's basically irrational.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Poster above.

I disagree with others saying you ate being “too” sensitive. It is a sensitive time for many good reasons. Others atound you should be extra-sensitive too!

I don’t blame you for your feelings, though I too think you just have to push them outof your focus.

+1
Agreed.
Also, regardless of what she did, she needs to support your choice and help you become successful. The health of her grandchild should be important to her. There is no reason for her to get into struggle to prove that she was a better mother. This is not about that at all.

There's no way to help someone become successful at doing something that is by nature an irrational struggle. And it's not about the health of the grandchild either.

^^ But the point is some ‘struggle’ is normal for breastfeeding. Many, many babies don’t just pop out and know exactly how to make it work. It often takes time, effort, trial and error. How much struggle is worth it is an individual choice, but to say that it “shouldn’t” be a struggle is ignorant.

You’re being sensitive but I get it. It’ll be ok, OP. It isn’t all or nothing and honestly it’s a godsend to be able to give a bottle or two of formula and take some of the pressure off while you and the baby figure it out. She probably didn’t mean any harm, but sometimes people are waiting for “permission” for someone to tell them it’s ok to formula feed, so it can be hard to know what type of “support” to offer.

You’re in the thick of the clusterfeeding days and even if you’re EP it sucks hard (no pun intended) to be pumping and washing like 7x a day. It’s not all or nothing! You can still pump/breastfeed and supplement and your baby gets all of the same benefits.

I spent a lot of time EP before my first baby figured out how to latch, and the second time around I was way too lazy. I would let her feed and then top off with formula...for weeks. I now have enough supply to EBF (and we’re at 6 mos) but I happily give formula when someone else takes her out and about (ie my husband on a walk) to avoid dealing w warming / transporting milk.

Deep breaths OP, it’ll be ok.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You are being understandably sensitive. But as an outsider with kids beyond that stage, I can also imagine MIL's point of view. You are putting a lot of effort into something she chose not to do, or was unable to do. She might be feeling self-conscious, or even have feelings of regret and guilt. Giving you formula might be a away to push those feeling aside. On the other hand, maybe she has no regrets about not breastfeeding and hopes that she could help you feel better about a possible scenario in which you switch to formula. In either case, it's about her, not you.

Which sucks for OP, because this is a time that a woman really needs it to be about her and have the people around her focus on her. Instead, OP has to deal with a MIL who is all about herself.

Sometimes focusing on a post-partum mother means encouraging her not to be so hard on herself. What do you think a medical professional or husband should do if the mother is running herself ragged insisting on breastfeeding? Or if the baby is not thriving? It's attitudes like "focus on the mother, who is operating under extreme ideological pressures!" that really get me.

Only about 2% of women and infants have medical reasons precluding them from breastfeeding. Breastfeeding in the early weeks is a struggle for both mom and baby, until they both achieve mastery and establish milk supply. Struggle is a completely normal thing and baby and parents will struggle through many developmental phases. Sleep training is just around the corner...

Your post is not relevant. Op should do what she wants, and if her family is caring, they'll support her decision. It doesn't matter that YOU believe struggle is normal. Your opinion doesn't matter here.

*thaws not that’s.

Anonymous wrote:You are being sensitive -- in her own way she's trying to say it's okay if breastfeeding doesn't work for you. She recognizes you are struggling and is trying to be supportive.

Not worth making a big deal out of it.

+1

Shes not inserting herself as she’s not forcing you to use it. I breastfed for 13 months and I had a bunch of random emergency formula laying around just in case (although I liked the ready made stuff). You never know. Maybe you get sick or maybe you leave some pumped milk out on the counter by accident or someone that’s to much etc. Shes just saving you a trip to the store.

Unrelated note...have you had your baby evaluated for a tongue or lip
Tie? That was a game changer for us.