Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Which is why some folks in the western part of the county worry that redistricting could mean long bus rides for kids if diversifying student populations is a key goal of the effort. It's not a crazy thing to worry about when you try to square the rhetoric with the geography.

Geography is part of the rhetoric. Geography is included in the rhetoric. So you don't have to square anything. It's already in there.

All the more reason to be concerned.

If MCPS weren't talking about geography, you'd be concerned. But MCPS is talking about geography, so - you're concerned.

Let's be clear that this is not about MCPS. It's about you.

OK smarty pants. How do you propose to bring more "diversity" to Whitman and Churchill, two clusters adjacent to three other clusters (Wootton, BCC, Walter Johnson) that allegedly also need more diversity. It's easy to see how you make those three more diverse without long bus commutes, because they border clusters of schools that tend to have at least somewhat higher FARMS rates. That's much less true of Whitman and Churchill. So let us know how you plan to redraw boundaries for Churchill and Whitman in a way that significantly improves diversity but does not require long bus commutes on the part of students coming in or out.

+1. Something will have to give. Either MCPS will have to accept that Whitman and Churchill will remain very low FARMS. Or, they will have to accept longer bus rides than they otherwise would.

It isn't remotely crazy to think that either option is possible. Therefore, I don't see how it is crazy for a parent to worry that long bus rides are a real possibility, although far from a certainty. Geography and diversity are both in the mix, but at times one will have to take primary consideration over the other.

If you can come up with a way to change boundaries so that Whitman/Churchill are diversified without people having long bus rides, I would love to hear it. (It might be possible for bus people into Whitman/Churchill and to do it on a voluntary basis, so parents who were willing to have a longer commute to attend a "better" school could it, but no one would be forced to. But I have no idea if that would be considered.)

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How does anyone propose to bring more diversity to east county schools? That's a whole lot of poors and majority minority. I bet if the BOE asked for volunteers from these schools to get on a long bus ride to go to the western counties, enough would sign up to solve the diversity issue. some of us in the east dont want to be here. PM

But you moved there, you want your cake and other people’s too

I’ll bet that very few eastern county students would want to travel 45-60 minutes each way every day. They’d prefer to attend school with their own kind.

What "kind" is that?

Well, for a county wide school magnet program introduced to a given high school, anyone can attend from
the entire county and they don't provide bussing. If you want to see popularity of those programs, go
to the next information meeting next time.

Here is the current MCPS offering of the magnet programs both testing in and no testing required.
Most of them are just by application and lottery.

Those programs are so hugely popular that there is always more students then spots
and parents gladly drive kids to school even if they don't offer busing by default.
Those are wonderful programs that otherwise would be not available for kids at their
local school.

MCPS High School Regional/Countywide Application Programs At-A-Glance
https://www.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/uploadedFiles/curriculum/specialprograms/high/9.19.19%20HS%20programs%20at%20a%20glance%202019%20with%20info%20dates.pdf

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How does anyone propose to bring more diversity to east county schools? That's a whole lot of poors and majority minority. I bet if the BOE asked for volunteers from these schools to get on a long bus ride to go to the western counties, enough would sign up to solve the diversity issue. some of us in the east dont want to be here. PM

But you moved there, you want your cake and other people’s too

I’ll bet that very few eastern county students would want to travel 45-60 minutes each way every day. They’d prefer to attend school with their own kind.

The schools that are under capacity are mostly in the eastern county. Look at the heat map.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

You don't know the BCC service area. BCC is actually one of the most sensibly drawn school boundary right now. But it can't accommodate many more students and there is no additional space for additions. BCC is exactly between 4 of the elementary schools (Bethesda, Chevy Chase, North Chevy Chase and Somerset), with Westbrook, Rock Creek Forest and Rosemary Hills off to the side). For reasons discussed ad nauseam on this board related to equity, it makes no sense to move the less affluent neighborhoods of RCF or Rosemary Hills away from BCC, which is otherwise an extremely wealth cluster. But Westbrook, which is closer to Whitman than BCC and is also very wealthy, could easily be moved. Carderock is outside the beltway and it could potentially cut down on transportation costs and environmental impact to move it to Churchill.

Just we need...more wealthy families at Churchill.

That's the problem with the Western part of the county. There is no easy way to diversify Whitman and Churchill without really throwing geography out the window. I'm kind of curious to see how they handle this issue.

Hasn't everyone figured it out yet? The wealthy schools will NOT be affected. Residents have too many political connections and too much wealth/power. Nobody talks about the fact that the wealthy areas in HOCO were mostly unaffected by their redistricting. This is why things quieted down quickly (anyone else notice that?)

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How does anyone propose to bring more diversity to east county schools? That's a whole lot of poors and majority minority. I bet if the BOE asked for volunteers from these schools to get on a long bus ride to go to the western counties, enough would sign up to solve the diversity issue. some of us in the east dont want to be here. PM

But you moved there, you want your cake and other people’s too

I’ll bet that very few eastern county students would want to travel 45-60 minutes each way every day. They’d prefer to attend school with their own kind.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Which is why some folks in the western part of the county worry that redistricting could mean long bus rides for kids if diversifying student populations is a key goal of the effort. It's not a crazy thing to worry about when you try to square the rhetoric with the geography.

Geography is part of the rhetoric. Geography is included in the rhetoric. So you don't have to square anything. It's already in there.

All the more reason to be concerned.

If MCPS weren't talking about geography, you'd be concerned. But MCPS is talking about geography, so - you're concerned.

Let's be clear that this is not about MCPS. It's about you.

OK smarty pants. How do you propose to bring more "diversity" to Whitman and Churchill, two clusters adjacent to three other clusters (Wootton, BCC, Walter Johnson) that allegedly also need more diversity. It's easy to see how you make those three more diverse without long bus commutes, because they border clusters of schools that tend to have at least somewhat higher FARMS rates. That's much less true of Whitman and Churchill. So let us know how you plan to redraw boundaries for Churchill and Whitman in a way that significantly improves diversity but does not require long bus commutes on the part of students coming in or out.

^^^This has been been on my mind ever since the buzz started about the boundaries. I don't see how they could possibly bring the kind of diversity they are striving for to Churchill without extreme busing. My guess is they Churchill cluster will be mostly unscathed...but other clusters with easy shifts will see a lot of change. I know this drives the BOE crazy.

Why, you fail to recognize that while rezoning or bussing of some school that require very little boundary changes to accommodate diversity, who are located close to diverse neighborhoods, you don't need to use
the same strategy for the W schools that are far from the diverse areas where neither rezoning nor bussing
would do it. It is possible that the way could solve the diversity issue at those schools will be different
way altogether.

For schools like Churchill for example, one possible solution is to create the country wide
magnets like the one at Wheaton or Kennedy etc. Those do not require any testing in so they are open
and attractive to diverse population and also they do not provide bussing.

That way you can bring diversity to any school at any time without concern for rezoning
or bussing. Correct me if I am wrong.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How does anyone propose to bring more diversity to east county schools? That's a whole lot of poors and majority minority. I bet if the BOE asked for volunteers from these schools to get on a long bus ride to go to the western counties, enough would sign up to solve the diversity issue. some of us in the east dont want to be here. PM

But you moved there, you want your cake and other people’s too

I.moved where I could afford and trust me, my home isn't cake. But I think my kids are entitled to the same education as yours. Do you agree?

Anonymous wrote:How does anyone propose to bring more diversity to east county schools? That's a whole lot of poors and majority minority. I bet if the BOE asked for volunteers from these schools to get on a long bus ride to go to the western counties, enough would sign up to solve the diversity issue. some of us in the east dont want to be here. PM

But you moved there, you want your cake and other people’s too

Anonymous wrote:How does anyone propose to bring more diversity to east county schools? That's a whole lot of poors and majority minority. I bet if the BOE asked for volunteers from these schools to get on a long bus ride to go to the western counties, enough would sign up to solve the diversity issue. some of us in the east dont want to be here. PM

Plenty of apartments and condos come on over

How does anyone propose to bring more diversity to east county schools? That's a whole lot of poors and majority minority. I bet if the BOE asked for volunteers from these schools to get on a long bus ride to go to the western counties, enough would sign up to solve the diversity issue. some of us in the east dont want to be here. PM

Anonymous wrote:

BCC would become marginally more diverse because when you take away Westbrook, you are taking away a population that is almost exclusively white. The problem isn't making BCC more diverse. The problem is making Whitman, WJ and Churchill more diverse. And that cannot be easily solved because, as others point out, those areas are so far away from non-white residential areas that decreasing de facto segregation through busing becomes impractical due to the long bus rides required.

The solution to our school segregation policy lies in two non-school related county functions -- transportation and zoning/housing development. There is no reason why Potomac shouldn't have large scale development around the main Falls Rd. intersection, with apartment buildings, townhouses, etc. and frequent, regular connection to public transportation. Same goes for areas in development in Whitman and BCC and WJ neighborhoods. But, instead most county development is a gift to developers who are required to have very little mixture of housing income levels and very few units reserved for low income families.

That's just not true. All development projects in the county with more than 20 units must include at least 12.5% Moderately Priced Dwelling Units (MPDUs). In places like Potomac, the projects must include at least 15%. And in some cases, the developers themselves are offering 25%.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In whole honesty some of the current boundaries are interesting. I am sure there must be some logic
to them but it is kind puzzling why some schools is so marginally located while others are more centrally located.
It seems logical that boundary change could minimize or at least balance bussing and reduce footprint right?

Just random examples

Wootton: (Wootton HS is that red dot) and that little floating triangular is also part of the boundary???


Blair: (Blair HS is that purple icon) also rather not centrally located.


Whitman - definitely more centrally located then the two above,


Rockville High

The fix for Whitman is pretty obvious - Carderock (outside the beltway) should go to Churchill in Potomac. Westbrook (currently at BCC) could fill in for Carderock at Whitman. This would help alleviate space concerns at Whitman and BCC, and cut down on busing to both schools. In addition, BCC would become marginally more diverse, with no real change to Churchill or Whitman.

Wootton is really odd. A portion of the border near the river is a historically African American community (Tobytown) that is much closer to Churchill. If Tobytown were redistricted to Churchill, that would seem to be a win-win all around from an environmental and equity standpoint. These small boundary tweaks are the things we should be thinking about. I don't think the school board has any interest in busing people from Bethesda to Gaithersburg like some on this board fear.

j

BCC would become marginally more diverse because when you take away Westbrook, you are taking away a population that is almost exclusively white. The problem isn't making BCC more diverse. The problem is making Whitman, WJ and Churchill more diverse. And that cannot be easily solved because, as others point out, those areas are so far away from non-white residential areas that decreasing de facto segregation through busing becomes impractical due to the long bus rides required.

The solution to our school segregation policy lies in two non-school related county functions -- transportation and zoning/housing development. There is no reason why Potomac shouldn't have large scale development around the main Falls Rd. intersection, with apartment buildings, townhouses, etc. and frequent, regular connection to public transportation. Same goes for areas in development in Whitman and BCC and WJ neighborhoods. But, instead most county development is a gift to developers who are required to have very little mixture of housing income levels and very few units reserved for low income families.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Somebody recently made this version which overlays FARMS percentages in clusters. It is quite telling, and you can see where there can be some movement. It is pretty obvious which schools will be tough to bus due to long commutes to higher FARMS rate schools. I just don't see how they are going to create any diversity with those schools....they look pretty protected to me. https://www.arcgis.com/apps/InteractiveLegend/index.html?appid=bf5860e2422b4816970eb80960f8019c&fbclid=IwAR0tlyWCuePkw9oJ3Wemm-jWQ7XUFLZ07awWNytnq2WhjUGBJ5oPH8CUcm4

Fascinating map, thanks for sharing.

Is it? Did anyone dispute that the poor minorities lived on the east side of town? Did anyone dispute that when there are concentrations of poor people that people with money avoid that area? When the rich flood to an area prices go up and poor people can’t move there so the select the cheap side of town. Those areas get more poverty which causes flight and here we are

People like to pretend that segregation is the result of simple "choice" and "economics". This is not actually what happened historically. The reality is that white, wealthy people used the power of government through subsidized federal mortgage programs to buy housing in certain parts of the county while poor non-white people were left to buy property (if they could) without equal access to mortgage financing (both federal government supported and private mortgages). Meanwhile, the law allowed property covenants on real estate to exclude black, other non-white and Jewish persons from the ability to own property. Property covenants were widely used in MoCo until they were ruled illegal by SCOTUS.

See "Race for Profit" by Taylor and "The Color of Law" by Rothstein.

Nevermind on top of that all the problems that non-white non-male non-wealthy people have gaining and keeping equal employment opportunities which only further contributes to segregation and economic inequality.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Which is why some folks in the western part of the county worry that redistricting could mean long bus rides for kids if diversifying student populations is a key goal of the effort. It's not a crazy thing to worry about when you try to square the rhetoric with the geography.

Geography is part of the rhetoric. Geography is included in the rhetoric. So you don't have to square anything. It's already in there.

All the more reason to be concerned.

If MCPS weren't talking about geography, you'd be concerned. But MCPS is talking about geography, so - you're concerned.

Let's be clear that this is not about MCPS. It's about you.

OK smarty pants. How do you propose to bring more "diversity" to Whitman and Churchill, two clusters adjacent to three other clusters (Wootton, BCC, Walter Johnson) that allegedly also need more diversity. It's easy to see how you make those three more diverse without long bus commutes, because they border clusters of schools that tend to have at least somewhat higher FARMS rates. That's much less true of Whitman and Churchill. So let us know how you plan to redraw boundaries for Churchill and Whitman in a way that significantly improves diversity but does not require long bus commutes on the part of students coming in or out.

MCPS is looking at three things:

-diversity
-capacity
-geography (including transportation)

Not one thing. THREE things.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Which is why some folks in the western part of the county worry that redistricting could mean long bus rides for kids if diversifying student populations is a key goal of the effort. It's not a crazy thing to worry about when you try to square the rhetoric with the geography.

Geography is part of the rhetoric. Geography is included in the rhetoric. So you don't have to square anything. It's already in there.

All the more reason to be concerned.

If MCPS weren't talking about geography, you'd be concerned. But MCPS is talking about geography, so - you're concerned.

Let's be clear that this is not about MCPS. It's about you.

OK smarty pants. How do you propose to bring more "diversity" to Whitman and Churchill, two clusters adjacent to three other clusters (Wootton, BCC, Walter Johnson) that allegedly also need more diversity. It's easy to see how you make those three more diverse without long bus commutes, because they border clusters of schools that tend to have at least somewhat higher FARMS rates. That's much less true of Whitman and Churchill. So let us know how you plan to redraw boundaries for Churchill and Whitman in a way that significantly improves diversity but does not require long bus commutes on the part of students coming in or out.

^^^This has been been on my mind ever since the buzz started about the boundaries. I don't see how they could possibly bring the kind of diversity they are striving for to Churchill without extreme busing. My guess is they Churchill cluster will be mostly unscathed...but other clusters with easy shifts will see a lot of change. I know this drives the BOE crazy.