Anonymous
11/12/2019 15:54
Subject: I don’t get DACA
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:The issue is they could get deported back to a country they don’t know or have any connection to. This gives them safety. What’s your problem with that?
So back to OP, your logic is that Madoff family should have kept the money he embezzled?
Kids did not commit the crime, they should keep the billions.
Solid plan.
This is an inappropriate comparison.
DP. Why? Both parents committed a crime that benefitted the children. You want to penalize his children for his actions, reward the others.
DP.. Children of Madoff won't be completely destitute. There are social services that would help.
It's not an appropriate comparison. You're talking about kicking someone out of their own country. Yes, for all intents and purposes, it's their country. This is all they know. Imagine if they were brought here at the age of one or two. People like that were practically born here. I immigrated here at two (yes, legally, I'm now a citizen). When people ask if I was born here, I say, no, I'm an immigrant; I came here at two. Their response is usually, oh, you were practically born here.
The just deported Joe Guidice. Both he and illegals broke the law. Why can’t he stay when he has American citizen kids and an American citizen wife? You
Actually, DACA recipients are not considered to have committed a crime because at the age they were brought over by their parents, they’re not deemed not capable of the requisite intent to commit the crime.
Genuinely curious: what abou after they reach adulthood and realize that they are in a country illegally?
Some of them did not know they were brought here illegally until it is time to get a drivers license, apply for college, get a job.
Once they reach adulthood they have no option to become a citizen without leaving the country for 10 years and applying and hoping they get approved.
They don't speak the language of their country, they don't have family there, they don't have a job there or any way to take care of themselves.
Those are definitely problems, I agree. How are those the problems of the US? Why are we required to solve these problems for them? Are they incapable of learning a new language, like plenty of new immigrants do when the come to the US? Are they incapable of living afar form their relatives, like many immigrants do? Are they incapable of finding a job in a different country - if so then what economic value do they have here in the US? If a person has no capability of taking care of themselves outside of the US, what are they doing here in the US? Why is our responsibility to take care of them?
Anonymous
11/12/2019 15:51
Subject: I don’t get DACA
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:The issue is they could get deported back to a country they don’t know or have any connection to. This gives them safety. What’s your problem with that?
If they were born in a different country, by definition they are citizens of that country - if citizenship to a country is not a strong connnection, why in the world are they trying so hard to become American citizens?
So they can drive and hold jobs without fear of being ripped away from their family.
Ahhhh, so they want to be Americans not because of some sense of connection to what it is to be American, but rather a selfish desire to drive a car, make money, and being closer to their family. Here I thought they were claiming some patriotic identiy of being an American. Thanks for clarifying that for me. They are no different from any other economic migrant who wants to be here for convenience.
Anonymous
11/12/2019 15:40
Subject: I don’t get DACA
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Trump would make DACA legal in a minute for wall funding.
But everyone wants an issue more than a solution.
These people are now pawns in the political posturing.
The Dems offers him $25B for the wall in 2018 in exchange for DACA.
Trump backed out. Why?
Trump has backed out of 3 Wall deals with Democrats: https://www.wsj.com/articles/shutdown-has-been-a-year-in-the-making-11547498818
It sounds like Trump is using DACA kids for political posturing.
They offered him the promise of 25B. NOt the samel
Anonymous
11/12/2019 15:32
Subject: I don’t get DACA
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:The issue is they could get deported back to a country they don’t know or have any connection to. This gives them safety. What’s your problem with that?
So back to OP, your logic is that Madoff family should have kept the money he embezzled?
Kids did not commit the crime, they should keep the billions.
Solid plan.
This is an inappropriate comparison.
DP. Why? Both parents committed a crime that benefitted the children. You want to penalize his children for his actions, reward the others.
DP.. Children of Madoff won't be completely destitute. There are social services that would help.
It's not an appropriate comparison. You're talking about kicking someone out of their own country. Yes, for all intents and purposes, it's their country. This is all they know. Imagine if they were brought here at the age of one or two. People like that were practically born here. I immigrated here at two (yes, legally, I'm now a citizen). When people ask if I was born here, I say, no, I'm an immigrant; I came here at two. Their response is usually, oh, you were practically born here.
The just deported Joe Guidice. Both he and illegals broke the law. Why can’t he stay when he has American citizen kids and an American citizen wife? You
Actually, DACA recipients are not considered to have committed a crime because at the age they were brought over by their parents, they’re not deemed not capable of the requisite intent to commit the crime.
Genuinely curious: what abou after they reach adulthood and realize that they are in a country illegally?
Some of them did not know they were brought here illegally until it is time to get a drivers license, apply for college, get a job.
Once they reach adulthood they have no option to become a citizen without leaving the country for 10 years and applying and hoping they get approved.
They don't speak the language of their country, they don't have family there, they don't have a job there or any way to take care of themselves.
Anonymous
11/12/2019 15:30
Subject: I don’t get DACA
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:The issue is they could get deported back to a country they don’t know or have any connection to. This gives them safety. What’s your problem with that?
If they were born in a different country, by definition they are citizens of that country - if citizenship to a country is not a strong connnection, why in the world are they trying so hard to become American citizens?
So they can drive and hold jobs without fear of being ripped away from their family.
Anonymous
11/12/2019 15:22
Subject: I don’t get DACA
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:The issue is they could get deported back to a country they don’t know or have any connection to. This gives them safety. What’s your problem with that?
So back to OP, your logic is that Madoff family should have kept the money he embezzled?
Kids did not commit the crime, they should keep the billions.
Solid plan.
This is an inappropriate comparison.
DP. Why? Both parents committed a crime that benefitted the children. You want to penalize his children for his actions, reward the others.
DP.. Children of Madoff won't be completely destitute. There are social services that would help.
It's not an appropriate comparison. You're talking about kicking someone out of their own country. Yes, for all intents and purposes, it's their country. This is all they know. Imagine if they were brought here at the age of one or two. People like that were practically born here. I immigrated here at two (yes, legally, I'm now a citizen). When people ask if I was born here, I say, no, I'm an immigrant; I came here at two. Their response is usually, oh, you were practically born here.
The just deported Joe Guidice. Both he and illegals broke the law. Why can’t he stay when he has American citizen kids and an American citizen wife? You
Actually, DACA recipients are not considered to have committed a crime because at the age they were brought over by their parents, they’re not deemed not capable of the requisite intent to commit the crime.
Genuinely curious: what abou after they reach adulthood and realize that they are in a country illegally?
Anonymous
11/12/2019 15:21
Subject: I don’t get DACA
Anonymous wrote:Dreamers must be deported unless the democrats agree to a wall.
You have the memory of a goldfish.
Anonymous
11/12/2019 15:20
Subject: I don’t get DACA
Anonymous wrote:The issue is they could get deported back to a country they don’t know or have any connection to. This gives them safety. What’s your problem with that?
If they were born in a different country, by definition they are citizens of that country - if citizenship to a country is not a strong connnection, why in the world are they trying so hard to become American citizens?
Anonymous
11/12/2019 14:44
Subject: I don’t get DACA
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:The issue is they could get deported back to a country they don’t know or have any connection to. This gives them safety. What’s your problem with that?
So back to OP, your logic is that Madoff family should have kept the money he embezzled?
Kids did not commit the crime, they should keep the billions.
Solid plan.
This is an inappropriate comparison.
DP. Why? Both parents committed a crime that benefitted the children. You want to penalize his children for his actions, reward the others.
DP.. Children of Madoff won't be completely destitute. There are social services that would help.
It's not an appropriate comparison. You're talking about kicking someone out of their own country. Yes, for all intents and purposes, it's their country. This is all they know. Imagine if they were brought here at the age of one or two. People like that were practically born here. I immigrated here at two (yes, legally, I'm now a citizen). When people ask if I was born here, I say, no, I'm an immigrant; I came here at two. Their response is usually, oh, you were practically born here.
The just deported Joe Guidice. Both he and illegals broke the law. Why can’t he stay when he has American citizen kids and an American citizen wife? You
Actually, DACA recipients are not considered to have committed a crime because at the age they were brought over by their parents, they’re not deemed not capable of the requisite intent to commit the crime.
Anonymous
11/12/2019 14:43
Subject: I don’t get DACA
Anonymous wrote:Trump would make DACA legal in a minute for wall funding.
But everyone wants an issue more than a solution.
These people are now pawns in the political posturing.
The Dems offers him $25B for the wall in 2018 in exchange for DACA.
Trump backed out. Why?
Trump has backed out of 3 Wall deals with Democrats: https://www.wsj.com/articles/shutdown-has-been-a-year-in-the-making-11547498818
It sounds like Trump is using DACA kids for political posturing.
Anonymous
11/12/2019 14:24
Subject: I don’t get DACA
Trump would make DACA legal in a minute for wall funding.
But everyone wants an issue more than a solution.
These people are now pawns in the political posturing.
But everyone wants an issue more than a solution.
These people are now pawns in the political posturing.
Anonymous
11/12/2019 14:07
Subject: I don’t get DACA
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:
But this is impossible. I know people who came from other countries after 2012 and are citizens now. Is there something that prevents them form applying for citizenship?
You don't understand the U.S. immigration law. There is no clock to citizenship that starts the minute you enter the country. If you don't have one of the existing grounds for citizenship, you can stay here till you drop dead but you won't be eligible to apply for citizenship.
Fine. I get it.
Anonymous
11/12/2019 14:02
Subject: I don’t get DACA
Anonymous wrote:
But this is impossible. I know people who came from other countries after 2012 and are citizens now. Is there something that prevents them form applying for citizenship?
You don't understand the U.S. immigration law. There is no clock to citizenship that starts the minute you enter the country. If you don't have one of the existing grounds for citizenship, you can stay here till you drop dead but you won't be eligible to apply for citizenship.
Anonymous
11/12/2019 13:59
Subject: I don’t get DACA
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I will note that all DACA does is protect them from deportation and make them eligible for work permits. It does NOT make them citizens.
The DREAM act provides a path to citizenship for them. Not automatic citizenship, but rather a path to it.
And allows all sorts of other benefits at the expense of other legal immigrants and citizens.
What benefits do they get that other legal immigrants and citizens do not?
The opportunity to naturalize without going through the hassle that the others did.
DACA recipients have no path to naturalization. You are making stuff up.
This is about a proposed scenario, not current situation. My opposition to it is that they will have special benefits available only to them as a group.
Anonymous
11/12/2019 13:56
Subject: I don’t get DACA
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I will note that all DACA does is protect them from deportation and make them eligible for work permits. It does NOT make them citizens.
The DREAM act provides a path to citizenship for them. Not automatic citizenship, but rather a path to it.
And allows all sorts of other benefits at the expense of other legal immigrants and citizens.
What benefits do they get that other legal immigrants and citizens do not?
The opportunity to naturalize without going through the hassle that the others did.
DACA recipients have no path to naturalization. You are making stuff up.
So if they went down to Immigration and said I'm a DACA eligible person they'd be arrested or turned away from applying for citizenship?
They would not be able to apply for citizenship.
O.k., thank-you. I learned something.
In general, they will need to leave the country, wait 10 years and then apply for citizenship. The point of the legislation being discussed is not to make them citizens, it's to create a path.
Both Democrats and Republicans support creating a path to citizenship without making them leave the country, especially for those who serve in the military.