Anonymous wrote:What I am most confused about is what types of activities she should be doing. Academically she does very well, she is a straight A student, but she is not a musician and doesn't play sports and we are afraid that this will hurt her. Recently I heard that colleges don't really care about National Honor Society, which I had thought was a significant honor. I just feel so clueless and guilty about not having the knowledge needed to advise her.

What does she actually enjoy doing, besides schoolwork? (Fashion design? Being with Animals? Yoga? Origami? Kayaking?)

Is there a cause she ACTUALLY cares about. (Global warming? Ending child marriage? Livable wage?)

These would be clues to extracurricular activities she could work on.

But don't engage in FAKE interests for the sake of the process.

"Having kid do clerical at Dad's office is essentially a "make work" job."



This is not always the case. We have a small family biz (just me and DH) DS who is 15 has already helped us by working for me at the front desk during summers and vacations when I have to travel with another child (like to visit colleges!) He has learned a lot--about work, dealing with people, etc. I will certainly encourage him to put this experience on his future college applications--along with the fact that he has been "working for himself" since about age 11, shoveling snow, walking dogs, and other odd jobs around the neighborhood. That "odd jobs" and "entrepreneurial" experience was looked on quite favorably when he applied to boarding school last year (I know because the admissions people told me so)

Anonymous wrote:I am a huge fan of community colleges. Know several people who went for a couple of years and then graduated from a better known (and more $) school. Same degree, less $.

Our college counselor best lesson was introducing me to the concept of 'lottery schools'. That there are 10 kids for every spot that all have almost perfect stats, so 9 kids don't get in.

It is all so more more competitive than it was for me in the late seventies.

I think with lottery schools its not that there are 10 kids with the right qualifications for fighting for every spot. Its that among kids with the qualifications, each applies to 10 schools but can only attend 1. There has been research done (notably by Kevin Carey at New American Foundation) that the number of ppl who perform at the top of standardized testing is relatively equal to the number of freshman spots available at elite schools combined.

Sure a kid might have a top 10 US news school as its first choice but only get admitted to a top 20 school. Both are "lottery" in that they reject a huge number of the ppl who apply. Once admitted a student's outcomes are much more about the individual's performance at school and in life (including things like soft skills and work ethic) than some transformative magic imbued upon them by attending a specific school.

I am a huge fan of community colleges. Know several people who went for a couple of years and then graduated from a better known (and more $) school. Same degree, less $.

Our college counselor best lesson was introducing me to the concept of 'lottery schools'. That there are 10 kids for every spot that all have almost perfect stats, so 9 kids don't get in.

It is all so more more competitive than it was for me in the late seventies.

First question to be asked of parents: What can you realistically afford for five or six years. Do NOT look at any institution that the family cannot afford. Do not dangle schools in front of your children that the family cannot afford. Run those EFC calculators and figure it out in advance. Don't waste time on schools that are $80K a year ++. Count on more than four years. There are 4000 institutions in America, there is a place for your child. Consider highly in-state if finances or other family issues (illness, taking care of seniors, parents, SN kids) are at play. Consider community college guaranteed admissions programs.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^^^NP. True work experience helps kids stand out. So few have real jobs. I don't believe one bit that what the poster said about Wake Forest is true.

NP, here is the link to Wake's common data set: https://prod.wp.cdn.aws.wfu.edu/sites/202/2019/04/CDS_2018-2019.pdf

Question C7 details the relative importance of different types of academic and non-academic categories in admissions decisions: "work experience" is "not considered."

Among similarly ranked national universities, the answers are:


Very Imp
Carnegie Mellon: https://www.cmu.edu/ira/CDS/pdf/cds_2018-19/c-first-time-first-year-admission.pdf

Important
Tufts: https://provost.tufts.edu/institutionalresearch/files/CDS_2018-2019-Final-Revised-7.22.19.pdf
UNC: https://oira.unc.edu/files/2019/02/CDS_2018-2019_20190213.pdf
GA Tech: https://irp.gatech.edu/gt-info/common-data-set

Considered
Michigan: https://obp.umich.edu/wp-content/uploads/pubdata/cds/cds_2018-2019_umaa.pdf
UVA: https://ias.virginia.edu/cds-2018-19
NYU: https://www.nyu.edu/content/dam/nyu/institutionalResearch/documents/CDS_2018-2019.pdf

Now the REAL question is does each college have a different definition of "work experience." Pulling from the experiences of DD's classmates, does working non-paid for the summer in the academic lab of a family friend count the same as working 10-15 hours a week a Ulta throughout junior year and more in the summer.

Well I guess the Wake Forest alum has an answer and should push back hard against it. It's actually ridiculous.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I have heard that the counselors at my DD's HS arent very helpful with college admissions and we don't have the money to pay for a private counselor

Have your daughter talk to a teacher that she likes and who is in a subject area of potential interest. Teachers very often have good insights for students and can make suggestions to help them find their fit.

Just today I had a 10th grade student come for help on something after school on the 1/2 day. She had spent a lot of time on it, and had just been overthinking the problem. She said she was working hard because she needed to get scholarships to go to college and shared that her mother hadn't gone to college and didn't know how to help her. We spent 30 minutes talking today, and needless to say, I have now adopted her and will be advising on course selection, clubs, colleges, and essays for the next couple of years. Honestly, it's the best part of teaching - finding the kids who really needed you as a mentor.

Thank you! We need more teachers like you!!!!!!!!

I add my thanks and, especially, my 15 year-old self adds her thanks. I come from an extremely impoverished area of the country and was raised by parents who married at 18 and never went to college. When I was a sophomore in high school, my biology teacher took an interest in me. She encouraged me to pursue an academic career and pointed me in the direction of college and the scholarships needed to attend, all in spite of the very vocal opposition of my parents. Without her, I would not be where I am today (multiple degrees, high HHI, ability to give back to make sure another 15 year old similarly situated girl can go to college). Really, from the bottom of my heart, thank you.

Your child will be the first gen college kid, that’s a boost worth a gazillion other achievements.
Don’t blow it! Hire an advisor!

Anonymous wrote:^^^NP. True work experience helps kids stand out. So few have real jobs. I don't believe one bit that what the poster said about Wake Forest is true.

NP, here is the link to Wake's common data set: https://prod.wp.cdn.aws.wfu.edu/sites/202/2019/04/CDS_2018-2019.pdf

Question C7 details the relative importance of different types of academic and non-academic categories in admissions decisions: "work experience" is "not considered."

Among similarly ranked national universities, the answers are:


Very Imp
Carnegie Mellon: https://www.cmu.edu/ira/CDS/pdf/cds_2018-19/c-first-time-first-year-admission.pdf

Important
Tufts: https://provost.tufts.edu/institutionalresearch/files/CDS_2018-2019-Final-Revised-7.22.19.pdf
UNC: https://oira.unc.edu/files/2019/02/CDS_2018-2019_20190213.pdf
GA Tech: https://irp.gatech.edu/gt-info/common-data-set

Considered
Michigan: https://obp.umich.edu/wp-content/uploads/pubdata/cds/cds_2018-2019_umaa.pdf
UVA: https://ias.virginia.edu/cds-2018-19
NYU: https://www.nyu.edu/content/dam/nyu/institutionalResearch/documents/CDS_2018-2019.pdf

Now the REAL question is does each college have a different definition of "work experience." Pulling from the experiences of DD's classmates, does working non-paid for the summer in the academic lab of a family friend count the same as working 10-15 hours a week a Ulta throughout junior year and more in the summer.

NHS can mean something if you're an officer and actually do something. Like organize a swim a thon for charity or whatever. By itself it's fairly meaningless but you can make it something.

Anonymous wrote:I have heard that the counselors at my DD's HS arent very helpful with college admissions and we don't have the money to pay for a private counselor, so I'm hoping that someone who has used a private counselor in the past can share advice that they found particularly useful. No one in our family has attended college before, so I feel that I lack the knowledge needed to provide savvy information, that other parents are able to provide for their children.

Your kid will be a first-gen college student. First-gen students face problems typical students don't have to face. Most colleges and universities want to diversify with these students.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:First generation college is considered an asset.

Rather than activities that she's not interested in, encourage her to get a part-time job. Many strong schools consider that a considerable plus.

Such as...? Wake Forest advises not to include work experience and the other good schools I’ve looked at rate it as barely considered.

Why would this be? I would think paid employment would rank in the same category as participating in a sport or any other extracurricular. I can't imagine why it would be barely considered.

I’m a Wake Alum and this seems... very off. If it’s true, I’m a pissed off alum who is about to send them a note explaining why I’m not donating this year. So please link to this in their recruiting. If a Sidwell counselor said a wealthy kid working as an intern in a make work position for daddy will be treated less seriously by Wake than a student in competitive research program, that’s one thing. But if the school itself says there is little to no value in kids who need to help support their family or take care of a sibling doing so so don’t bother to mention it, that is not pro humanitata.

It’s school with a lot of wealthy kids. But I’ve never felt like “Work Forest” discounted the importance of a work ethic. And they at least pay lip service to recruiting 1st gen kids who may need to work or care for siblings. If that’s BS, I want to know.

What about middle class kids who work, but aren't doing so to help support the family? Do they view paid employment in the same way as being involved in debate or playing volleyball?

I would love to hear more about this as well. My DC works to pay for many of their own extracurricular and enrichment activities, including language immersion travel. This really helps our family and gives DC a lot of satisfaction. Shouldn't this count?

Every adcom in the world loves a kid who gets top grades while holding down a job and activities too. And they should.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:First generation college is considered an asset.

Rather than activities that she's not interested in, encourage her to get a part-time job. Many strong schools consider that a considerable plus.

Such as...? Wake Forest advises not to include work experience and the other good schools I’ve looked at rate it as barely considered.

Why would this be? I would think paid employment would rank in the same category as participating in a sport or any other extracurricular. I can't imagine why it would be barely considered.

I’m a Wake Alum and this seems... very off. If it’s true, I’m a pissed off alum who is about to send them a note explaining why I’m not donating this year. So please link to this in their recruiting. If a Sidwell counselor said a wealthy kid working as an intern in a make work position for daddy will be treated less seriously by Wake than a student in competitive research program, that’s one thing. But if the school itself says there is little to no value in kids who need to help support their family or take care of a sibling doing so so don’t bother to mention it, that is not pro humanitata.

It’s school with a lot of wealthy kids. But I’ve never felt like “Work Forest” discounted the importance of a work ethic. And they at least pay lip service to recruiting 1st gen kids who may need to work or care for siblings. If that’s BS, I want to know.

What about middle class kids who work, but aren't doing so to help support the family? Do they view paid employment in the same way as being involved in debate or playing volleyball?

I would love to hear more about this as well. My DC works to pay for many of their own extracurricular and enrichment activities, including language immersion travel. This really helps our family and gives DC a lot of satisfaction. Shouldn't this count?

Anonymous wrote:

I have heard that the counselors at my DD's HS arent very helpful with college admissions and we don't have the money to pay for a private counselor

Have your daughter talk to a teacher that she likes and who is in a subject area of potential interest. Teachers very often have good insights for students and can make suggestions to help them find their fit.

Just today I had a 10th grade student come for help on something after school on the 1/2 day. She had spent a lot of time on it, and had just been overthinking the problem. She said she was working hard because she needed to get scholarships to go to college and shared that her mother hadn't gone to college and didn't know how to help her. We spent 30 minutes talking today, and needless to say, I have now adopted her and will be advising on course selection, clubs, colleges, and essays for the next couple of years. Honestly, it's the best part of teaching - finding the kids who really needed you as a mentor.

Thank you! We need more teachers like you!!!!!!!!

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:She sounds like a great student. NHS is indeed a significant honor (that my kid didn't have). I agree with the poster who said "fit matters more than ranking." Getting in to Harvard may be out of the question without extracurricular activities, but many great schools will be matches for her. Just figure out what she wants to study, and start looking at good schools. I wish my kids were straight A students.

A private admissions counselor said NHS is not an honor given that there is no set standard of acceptance. She said 50% of some school could be members and could entail going to a few meetings and doing 10 hours of community service.

Correct. NHS doesn't mean academic excellence because there is no set standard.

At my DD's high school, the academic requirement is only 3.0 UW. If it were 3.7 UW, that would be a much better standard.