PP here. Another thing that worked was setting boundaries. We did not give in to her constant need for TV. She used to cry and shout and bring the house down when we took away TV time. Refused to eat if there was no TV. We just let her do her crying (it was stressful for a week or so with the constant screaming) but she eventually accepted that she does not get to make the rules.

Is she getting enough sleep OP? When is her bed time and when does she wake up?

At that age, mine used to scream and cry and be a terror because she couldn't sleep (even when in bed). We changed the bed time to earlier and woke her up later and it worked wonders.

Does she bang her head on the pillow when in bed?

Anonymous wrote:I thought my almost 4 year old was the only one like that. She can be a terror and I am exhausted by her moods and behavior. I hope this is somehow all temporary. When I come from work, when she is not in a good mood, she tells me: " Goodbye" and wants me to leave the house. Do all 4 year old behave like that? We eat healthy, don't go to any fast food places, and try to spend a lot of time with her.

What do you do/say when she says something like that? Is she joking? Trying to be silly? My kids would never say anything remotely close to this (admittedly one is 7 months old and not talking yet). I would never accept this kind of behavior. My kids complain and whine, are much more spoiled than i was and I am not a strict parent by any mean, but I would be really upset and I would make sure it never happened again.

This breaks my heart OP. I would take her. I suspect she just needs some loving but firm boundaries. When kids don't know what to expect/who is in charge, its frightening to them and they act out.

Please please get her and you the help she needs. Its not too late and it does NOT have to be like this. I recommend working 1:1 with a parent coach. Not sure where you are, but there is Meghan Leahy in DC and Dr. Rene (forget her last name) in Nova. Also, there are out of town coaches who can work remotely. Its expensive but so so worth it IMO. If you are a book reader, a lot of it is in books, but sometimes that is too much to handle if you are in the thick of it.

I’ve been a nanny for 25 years and have met many 4 years old like this. You are not alone, op. To turn things around, I put a strict schedule in place and let the kids know my expectations regarding behaviour. In the beginning it feels like you’re always correcting behaviour and on them all the time, but then little by little things turn around. But you have to be strict. I do rewards charts and chores. I do a lot of positive reinforcement and praise when they do things I want to encourage. When their behaviour is unacceptable, I let them know immediately and the consequence is immediate. I do a lot of natural consequences. If you are rude, I don’t play with you and go do a chore in another room. If you don’t want to eat dinner, children in developed countries rarely starve and you can leave the table. I’m not a short order cook and what I make is what you eat. If you are screaming and yelling at the library or the park, we’ll then we leave. Kids learn pretty quickly with me how to behave in public. I try to do a lot of fun and bonding activities together so that it’s not all rules all the time. I also use a lot of “I feel” messages. “I feel like you’re not listening to me” “I feel like we should put these toys away before we get out a new game. What do you think?”. Kids also have trouble with transitions so I don’t just tell them it’s bed time, I start 15 mins before talking about it and then do 5 and 1 minute reminders. For meals if they’re picky I give them choices but don’t ask what they want, for ex: “do you want chicken kiev, tomatoes pasta or lamb chops for dinner tonight? Oh it would probably be a good idea to add a vegetable, right? Do you think we should do broccoli or spinach?”. Im not a hard a** all the time and will encourage them to do the things they need to do by saying things like “oooops your shoes are in the living room! I forgot where they go, can you show me?” And “uh oh your plate is still on the table! Let’s put that away and then you can go choose a game to play”. If they don’t want to go to their room for bath “I bet I can run faster to your room!” and then let them win. If you yell or bark orders it doesn’t work. It just teaches them to yell and be rude back to you. I have transformed many ‘spoiled’ (they’re not spoiled, they just haven’t learned better) kids how to behave and you can do it too!

Enabled by my H, my 4 old screamed at me to go away as soon as walked into the room. I flashd a big smile and said, ok I love you bye bye, and walked out. Had a great dinner at a fancy restaurant by myself. H was stuck with kid dinner and bedtime routines. The next morning, everyone was so nice to me!

Priceless! I love this. Yep, there are consequences for what you ask for.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Also, does she have a diagnosis?

Wow

Nope, not “wow.” Typical 4yos do not behave that way so consistently that their parents regret having them. When something isn’t typical, you pursue insight from medical and mental health professionals.

OP, have you and DH tried parenting classes? Because if she’s not atypical, you need to look at you.

idk. Maybe some 4 years olds do test their parents like this. I've really questioned my parenting since having a teen and do NOT think I will make it. It's humbling.

I have a four year old and we have frequent play dates with many 4 year olds in our neighborhood and preschool friends. None of them act like this.

Not when you're around anyway.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have two kids, older than yours. One is very easygoing, very well-behaved, and the kind of child that makes you wish you had a houseful of kids. The other is a challenge, difficult to like at time, and the kind that makes you realize if he had been the first child, he'd be the only child. And just to be clear, I love both my children dearly. As it turns out, the challenging child has anxiety that manifests itself through oppositional behavior and anger. He is in counseling and DH and I have done parent training too. It was clear from a very young age, 2 or so, that he had different needs. So sometimes that "spirited" child actually has real needs that should be addressed.

Good luck, OP!

Can you please share how your DS was diagnosed and what steps you took to get him into counseling? He sounds similar to my DS who is almost 3 and may very well end up an only child because of his behavior! We've discussed with his pediatrician who didn't seem concerned but I think we might need to be a bit more proactive and at least get an evaluation.

PP here. It's been a more recent diagnosis for him, but was not surprising by any means. He's now in 4th grade and when he was in 2nd, I started taking him a counselor, which wasn't a positive experience for anyone involved. We actually took him to get a psychoeducational eval at George Mason at the end of 2nd grade because we noticed a major resistance to school work, etc. and had wanted to make sure we weren't missing any learning flags. They did indeed give him an anxiety diagnosis, along with sub-clinical symptoms of ADHD and oppositional defiance disorder. He started counseling at George Mason for his 3rd grade year, where they did CBT.

We also had him evaluated by Kennedy Krieger, which also gave him an anxiety diagnosis. They offered to give him medication. DH and I are not opposed to meds by any means, but we wanted to really give CBT a good try before thinking about meds. DS continues to be in counseling at Mason. I am a worrier- probably do have clinical anxiety myself- so I'm not surprised. DS also has had some health issues early on- severe food allergies, lots of ear infections, asthma concerns- so just a lot going on for a kid who's already predisposed to anxiety.

Good luck. We're still new to dealing with all this, but from what I can read, anger and anxiety (and ADHD) are all often intertwined with each other.

Thank you so much for your response and I just want to say your son is so lucky to have you as parents. I am also a worrier and I'm afraid I've passed that on to my DS as well. We will be looking to get him evaluated soon. Thank you so much again for your response.

Plan, and take, a vacation. Soon. And get extra help with childcare. Therapy too. This will pass. This age is hard. You can do it!

Right there with you OP with the "spirited" 4 YO. And the marriage and all. Right there. Except, I don't want to run away all the time. Only sometimes. I feel like if I ever get to that point I would want someone to tell me to see a counselor (which I have before!). It may be time to call for reinforcements.

OP, please find a counselor!

Grow a sense of humor when dealing with four year olds. Get toddler 411 and go to a parenting class. The problem is you. You need to be her parent and love her nonetheless. Get yourself some psychological help and sign up for babycenter.com and start reading about your child’s weekly development to learn how to handle things and know what they need. She needs you to be her mom.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My 3.5 year old DD is a huge pain the ass. Huge. Just giving hugs

Thank you.

+1 OP, I'm there with you. 3 year old DD is a monster. My 5 year old DS is now a delight, but a lot of 4 was very tough. There were and still are days where I just want a break. I want to go home from work and relax, not deal with the evening grind and nonstop fighting. I think it gets easier, maybe one day.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Also, does she have a diagnosis?

Wow

Nope, not “wow.” Typical 4yos do not behave that way so consistently that their parents regret having them. When something isn’t typical, you pursue insight from medical and mental health professionals.

OP, have you and DH tried parenting classes? Because if she’s not atypical, you need to look at you.

idk. Maybe some 4 years olds do test their parents like this. I've really questioned my parenting since having a teen and do NOT think I will make it. It's humbling.

Teens can be difficult. 2 year olds can be littler terrors. But 4 is usually great. So, something is likely going on. I doubt the kid is just a jerk.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Also, does she have a diagnosis?

Wow

Nope, not “wow.” Typical 4yos do not behave that way so consistently that their parents regret having them. When something isn’t typical, you pursue insight from medical and mental health professionals.

OP, have you and DH tried parenting classes? Because if she’s not atypical, you need to look at you.

I do think this is very extreme. Four is generally a great age. Could she have an underlying health issue? Sleep apnea, anxiety, etc? I would probably look in to some things like that.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Also, does she have a diagnosis?

Wow

Nope, not “wow.” Typical 4yos do not behave that way so consistently that their parents regret having them. When something isn’t typical, you pursue insight from medical and mental health professionals.

OP, have you and DH tried parenting classes? Because if she’s not atypical, you need to look at you.

idk. Maybe some 4 years olds do test their parents like this. I've really questioned my parenting since having a teen and do NOT think I will make it. It's humbling.

I have a four year old and we have frequent play dates with many 4 year olds in our neighborhood and preschool friends. None of them act like this.