Anonymous wrote:OP here. Again, I am not a troll. I wish I could prove that somehow. 41 year-old software engineering manager working at a defense contractor in the midwest. I lived in DC for 14 years, which is why I am even posting on here.

It's hard enough trying to flirt and run the normal process of showing interest at work at all, let alone for something as unique as this. Normally in this situation, I would've asked her out, and away from the workplace, ran the normal process of dating someone. I don't like flirting at work. Her office is in a very busy area so I feel like I fool if I'm always at her doorway and you never know when someone else will walk by. So this, on top of not having any idea how to deal with her, makes it hard. I just want to get her away from the office for even a short walk to have a non-threatening conversation. I don't want to do this over e-mail.

I am in another event this weekend and will ask her to stop by at it again since this one is very close to where she lives. If she agrees, I hope to take her aside there and try to talk to her for a bit.

Here are the types of things I am thinking about saying. What do you think, especially those women who feel they can relate to her to some degree:

"
I want you to know that you can trust me. But I know I have to earn that trust by respecting your boundaries. I want to get to know you better, but I know that can only happen with time. It would involve many very small steps that you control and your independence and space would remain unchanged.

I don't pretend to know you. But based on what you've told me, I think I know a little about where you are coming from. There is no judgement from me because I understand where your caution is coming from. I know I probably haven't met the real you yet, but someday I hope to. I'd hope you would feel safe to be your true self around me one day.
"

Is this too much? I kind of cringe reading this, and would not say these kinds of things to any other woman, but wondering if this is needed in this case.

Thanks again, everyone.

Anonymous wrote:OP here. Again, I am not a troll. I wish I could prove that somehow. 41 year-old software engineering manager working at a defense contractor in the midwest. I lived in DC for 14 years, which is why I am even posting on here.

It's hard enough trying to flirt and run the normal process of showing interest at work at all, let alone for something as unique as this. Normally in this situation, I would've asked her out, and away from the workplace, ran the normal process of dating someone. I don't like flirting at work. Her office is in a very busy area so I feel like I fool if I'm always at her doorway and you never know when someone else will walk by. So this, on top of not having any idea how to deal with her, makes it hard. I just want to get her away from the office for even a short walk to have a non-threatening conversation. I don't want to do this over e-mail.

I am in another event this weekend and will ask her to stop by at it again since this one is very close to where she lives. If she agrees, I hope to take her aside there and try to talk to her for a bit.

Here are the types of things I am thinking about saying. What do you think, especially those women who feel they can relate to her to some degree:

"
I want you to know that you can trust me. But I know I have to earn that trust by respecting your boundaries. I want to get to know you better, but I know that can only happen with time. It would involve many very small steps that you control and your independence and space would remain unchanged.

I don't pretend to know you. But based on what you've told me, I think I know a little about where you are coming from. There is no judgement from me because I understand where your caution is coming from. I know I probably haven't met the real you yet, but someday I hope to. I'd hope you would feel safe to be your true self around me one day.
"

Is this too much? I kind of cringe reading this, and would not say these kinds of things to any other woman, but wondering if this is needed in this case.

Thanks again, everyone.

Anonymous wrote:Those statements are too much, OP. They’re quite presumptuous, because you don’t actually know much at all about this woman, nor what she’s thinking or feeling. And you certainly DON’T know where her caution is coming from!

Her actions tell you all you need to know — she’s unavailable — so why waste your breath telling her she can trust you, you will respect her boundaries, etc...all of that’s moot if she can’t be in a room with you for more than five minutes.

Is this a pattern for you — pursuing unavailable women? I can’t fathom why you are still trying to fit a square peg in a round hole.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:She sounds asexual

+1

So what's wrong with That?

Anonymous wrote:Those statements are too much, OP. They’re quite presumptuous, because you don’t actually know much at all about this woman, nor what she’s thinking or feeling. And you certainly DON’T know where her caution is coming from!

Her actions tell you all you need to know — she’s unavailable — so why waste your breath telling her she can trust you, you will respect her boundaries, etc...all of that’s moot if she can’t be in a room with you for more than five minutes.

Is this a pattern for you — pursuing unavailable women? I can’t fathom why you are still trying to fit a square peg in a round hole.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:She sounds asexual

+1

Anonymous wrote:Come by and see her dress? That sounds like something an 8 year old would do. She sounds beyond strange OP.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here. I'll respond to some of the comments. For many reasons, I don't think it was a friendzoned situation. Do you really think ANY woman would willingly admit that she's never had a relationship at her age? There are 5 million other things she could've told me during the brushoff. In fact, the fact that she did tell me that (over e-mail) leads me to believe that she has some trust in me.


If you haven't caught on by now, we work at the same place. She works for a different company, but in a totally different part of the building and I do not need to ever walk by that part unless I want to. If it were any closer than that, I wouldn't have ever pursued her.

The first time I expressed interested in her is after months of talking in person and then talking over our respective company e-mail accounts. One day I asked her out and for her phone number. She never gave it to me and I could tell she was flustered and didn't know how to respond to going out, so I let it be. But she continued to e-mail me as she had been doing. You can see how e-mail is a much safer medium as a phone number and texting seems to give too close of access. And then one day she initiated moving to our personal e-mail accounts. Stopping by my office. When she'd see me coming towards hers, she'd most often stand up and smooth out her dress and definitely try to flag down my attention. If I was stuck in meetings, she'd e-mail me asking me to come see her dress, etc.

A few months ago, I asked her out again after a period of intense flirtation, and this time she responded that she didn't want to be bf/gf right away and wanted to move "excruciatingly slowly". That right there shows her naivete and fear. I was never asking her to be in a relationship right away. Just out.

We continued e-mailing and I finally got her to stop by something I was doing at an event since it was close to where she lived. She did stop by for about 5 minutes and left, e-mailing me when she got home talking about how fun it was.

So my assessment is that she has that avoidant attachment personality where she cannot let anyone get close. Apparently it stems from how you were raised as a young child. I also think that added to this, as the years pile up without that experience, she has the added anxiety about how to even let someone in and go through the motions of a relationship. She has her own house, lives with a cat, has spent all of her life doing her own thing. If she is a virgin, there is that anxiety on top of that.

The other options is that she could've had some trauma in her past, but I don't get that vibe from her at all. The signs are not there. She could be asexual or lesbian. I also know from looking at her FB that she used to have more weight. Not fat by any stretch, but it's a big contrast to what she is now, which is a total stick. Not yet anorexic, but getting there.

I am well aware that I need to move on again, which I have begun to, but the fact that I am writing this at all indicates that I am not all the way there yet. I am not in the DC area where being a single older man is gold in terms of the dating market. Where I am at, the dating scene is tough. So there aren't a lot of great options out there and I really do like her.

But, for many reasons, I know I need to kill the hope. I am totally on board with the idea that unless the other person is "hell yes", then don't bother. You just end up tormenting yourself with someone who is ambivalent.

And at my age (41), I don't have time to f around either.

It would be interesting to know if she is, perhaps, working with a therapist or in some other way following a list of rules. . . sounds like it would be great if you could get her to agree to sit down and talk about the "excrutiatingly slowly" time line (wait, is it at all possible this is not anxiety/avoidance so much as an unusual way of exerting power/control? Could there be a dozen other guys she is doing something like this with, all at slightly different stages? ).

Anonymous wrote:I really sympathize with her because I am very much like her. I recognized I was constantly sabotaging opportunities. I could not get past my insecurities, anxiety, and fear of rejection.