Anonymous wrote:The swim parents at our pool like to think they’re laid back and chill but they aren’t. The amount of screaming while
their kids are swimming at meets is terrifying. The kids are underwater— they can’t hear you and I don’t think they want to hear you either. And the amount of time and volunteering the team expects from parents is also not laid-back. Finally, the swim families are so clique-ish. The parents don’t interact with non swim-team families, the kids think the pool belongs to them and not all the families. Finally, the families of top swimmers self-segregate from even the rest of the swim team families!

It takes a lot of volunteers to run a swim meet. If a team is laid back about volunteering then swim meets don't happen. No way around this.

do you also think people shouldn't cheer at football game or baseball games? Players on the field can't hear what you are saying. It would be so odd to be at any sporting event where folks watch in complete silence. Now are some parents more competitive and crazy, sure. Attend one of the NVSL all star meets where the top 3 D1 teams take over ALL of the stands and you will see the craziness.

Anonymous wrote:The swim parents at our pool like to think they’re laid back and chill but they aren’t. The amount of screaming while
their kids are swimming at meets is terrifying. The kids are underwater— they can’t hear you and I don’t think they want to hear you either. And the amount of time and volunteering the team expects from parents is also not laid-back. Finally, the swim families are so clique-ish. The parents don’t interact with non swim-team families, the kids think the pool belongs to them and not all the families. Finally, the families of top swimmers self-segregate from even the rest of the swim team families!

It's funny... i was just chatting to someone about this very thing this morning. From a casual observation, swim meets can look like a lot of crazy people cheering and yelling (which people could also interpret as screaming). But that's part of the atmosphere to cheer kids on to do their best - it's all fun and the parents and kids on most teams do actually get along. I am not a long-time swim parent, so I find this very interesting.... I am a long-time soccer parent, and the screaming and yelling there is more sustained and more intense and much different than the 30 seconds of swim cheering for each kid. I'll take the swim atmosphere any day over travel soccer.

1. turning over (e.g. past vertical) before touching the wall would be a dq- but standing up would not be, unless he pushed off the bottom. It would also be pretty unusual, to stand up on an IM.
2. How do you know S&T missed it?
3. It's actually much harder then it looks- when three kids are coming at you all at the same time, and you want to observe each of their turns.
4. If you think your S&T judges are crummy, and you can do better- by all means volunteer and get certified as an S&T judge. At least at our pool, and I think this is pretty common- we are constantly begging for more S&T judges to get certified.

+1

S&T is a volunteer job, people

I will freely admit that I am lean strongly toward "benefit of the doubt to the swimmer" particularly in the younger ones.

To those who think the S&T official was blind, incompetent, etc: How certain are you that no part of the arms was at (or above) the surface of the water in butterfly? While watching 3 swimmers simultaneously and giving each of the 3 equal attention? Often the little guys are just barely barely keeping arms at the surface level when recovering. S&T is looking at this from the end of the pool.

If I am 100% certain that I've seen an illegal stroke, I call it, even for a 6YO. But I need to be absolutely sure.

Also, I wish that all pools would post the reason for the DQ with the results. That information is communicated to the coaches, and they are supposed to communicate it to the swimmers, but this doesn't always happen.

My own kids have been subject to "suspect" S&T calls - including one pool that is so disorganized in their B meets with umpteen heats that I'm virtually certain that they mixed up the lane on the DQ card (this when my 7 yr old thought she'd come in first - they actually posted the result with no DQ and then amended it later when they caught up with the DQ cards). Another time my kid was literally DQd for "hesitation at the start" (?!). We just let these things go. This is not the Olympics. You go do the 2 hour certification course in the outer reaches of MoCo and stand in the heat for hours on Wed. nights, and then we'll listen to your complaints .

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Most of our S&T judges are pretty crummy. I was timing the other day and saw a kid on a back-to-breast transition in an IM turn over and stand up before touching the wall, and the S&T judge totally missed it.

1. turning over (e.g. past vertical) before touching the wall would be a dq- but standing up would not be, unless he pushed off the bottom. It would also be pretty unusual, to stand up on an IM.
2. How do you know S&T missed it?
3. It's actually much harder then it looks- when three kids are coming at you all at the same time, and you want to observe each of their turns.
4. If you think your S&T judges are crummy, and you can do better- by all means volunteer and get certified as an S&T judge. At least at our pool, and I think this is pretty common- we are constantly begging for more S&T judges to get certified.

+1000 too volunteering! It is hard watching 3 lanes come in at once versus 1 lane as a timer. Things get missed. But that doesn't make them a bad S&T Judge.

I wouldn't mind begin an S&T judge. Our team reps slotted me as chief timer and want me to keep doing that.

DQing is a normal part of the process when you join a swim team, at whatever age. It's all about how you, the parent, frame DQing to the kid. They learn from it and figure it out. Every time my kids DQ, we try to figure out why and they work on it at practice and the next meet. It's just part of the sport and really shouldn't mean the child is somehow devastated.

Our swim team is fun and parents are totally normal. I have been pleasantly surprised.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Most of our S&T judges are pretty crummy. I was timing the other day and saw a kid on a back-to-breast transition in an IM turn over and stand up before touching the wall, and the S&T judge totally missed it.

1. turning over (e.g. past vertical) before touching the wall would be a dq- but standing up would not be, unless he pushed off the bottom. It would also be pretty unusual, to stand up on an IM.
2. How do you know S&T missed it?
3. It's actually much harder then it looks- when three kids are coming at you all at the same time, and you want to observe each of their turns.
4. If you think your S&T judges are crummy, and you can do better- by all means volunteer and get certified as an S&T judge. At least at our pool, and I think this is pretty common- we are constantly begging for more S&T judges to get certified.

+1000 too volunteering! It is hard watching 3 lanes come in at once versus 1 lane as a timer. Things get missed. But that doesn't make them a bad S&T Judge.

Anonymous wrote:Most of our S&T judges are pretty crummy. I was timing the other day and saw a kid on a back-to-breast transition in an IM turn over and stand up before touching the wall, and the S&T judge totally missed it.

As a new stroke and turn judge, let me just say this job is hard as hell, especially since I don't come from a swim background.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The swim parents at our pool like to think they’re laid back and chill but they aren’t. The amount of screaming while
their kids are swimming at meets is terrifying. The kids are underwater— they can’t hear you and I don’t think they want to hear you either. And the amount of time and volunteering the team expects from parents is also not laid-back. Finally, the swim families are so clique-ish. The parents don’t interact with non swim-team families, the kids think the pool belongs to them and not all the families. Finally, the families of top swimmers self-segregate from even the rest of the swim team families!

One...if you’re at a swim meet where people aren’t cheering it’s quiet and weird.

Two...if parents don’t volunteer the meets can’t happen. Period.

Three...maybe your swim team was clique-ish, but ours isn’t. We are a mid-low division MCSL team in a neighborhood with focus schools...maybe the top teams are like that, but most are supportive and fun based on what I’ve heard from other friends.

Nope - our top team is fun with fun parents.

Good, that makes me happy! (Pp)

Same here. We're on a team in the A division, and I've been impressed with the sportsmanship all around. Everyone seems to be having fun, and other than one coach from a different team that had to be asked to quiet down, the meets have been pretty low key.

Anonymous wrote:Most of our S&T judges are pretty crummy. I was timing the other day and saw a kid on a back-to-breast transition in an IM turn over and stand up before touching the wall, and the S&T judge totally missed it.

1. turning over (e.g. past vertical) before touching the wall would be a dq- but standing up would not be, unless he pushed off the bottom. It would also be pretty unusual, to stand up on an IM.
2. How do you know S&T missed it?
3. It's actually much harder then it looks- when three kids are coming at you all at the same time, and you want to observe each of their turns.
4. If you think your S&T judges are crummy, and you can do better- by all means volunteer and get certified as an S&T judge. At least at our pool, and I think this is pretty common- we are constantly begging for more S&T judges to get certified.

Most of our S&T judges are pretty crummy. I was timing the other day and saw a kid on a back-to-breast transition in an IM turn over and stand up before touching the wall, and the S&T judge totally missed it.

My husband just became certified to become a stroke and turn judge this year. He was taught to err on the side of the swimmer. If you are not sure, then let if go. On the other hand, if you see it, you have to write it up as the is the main way the kids will learn what they are doing wrong.

We have a situation at the pool, where a swimmer has been "legally" swimming at B meets and getting times that qualify her for A meets. Yet, at out of the last 4 A meets we had, she DQ'd in 3. That does not benefit the swimmer nor the team.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The swim parents at our pool like to think they’re laid back and chill but they aren’t. The amount of screaming while
their kids are swimming at meets is terrifying. The kids are underwater— they can’t hear you and I don’t think they want to hear you either. And the amount of time and volunteering the team expects from parents is also not laid-back. Finally, the swim families are so clique-ish. The parents don’t interact with non swim-team families, the kids think the pool belongs to them and not all the families. Finally, the families of top swimmers self-segregate from even the rest of the swim team families!

One...if you’re at a swim meet where people aren’t cheering it’s quiet and weird.

Two...if parents don’t volunteer the meets can’t happen. Period.

Three...maybe your swim team was clique-ish, but ours isn’t. We are a mid-low division MCSL team in a neighborhood with focus schools...maybe the top teams are like that, but most are supportive and fun based on what I’ve heard from other friends.

Nope - our top team is fun with fun parents.

Good, that makes me happy! (Pp)