Anonymous wrote:I once said to DH, "If our kids got lost, and the police asked you 'what were they wearing', you would have no clue". To which he responded, "yea, probably".

Anonymous wrote:It’s annoying but we also chose to marry these men and continue to make choices that enable their behavior. My husband is a wonderful dad but asked me the other day which drawer our 2 year olds pajamas are in and then got mad when I glared at him—like apparently it’s unreasonable for him to be expected to know after 2 years. But I dunno, he’s lightyears better than his father and I DO do the majority of childcare as a SAHM. .

My SIL is a brilliant, strong-minded and independent engineer in a senior position at huge company and her husband is one of the nicest guys I’ve ever met. BUT he doesn’t lift a finger for their young children and she doesn’t seem bothered at all when she works an intense job and then comes home and does 100% of household responsibilities. She’ll be running around dressing them, packing them up, drying tears etc and he’ll just go sit in the car to wait for her to get the kids out the door. I’ve never had the guts to ask her how she tolerates her husband’s extreme lack of parental involvement but she’s accepted it and seems happy. But I look at her situation and mind and feel like this is really an issue that we as women have created by our acceptance of it. Whether are standards are too low for fathers or our need to control things is too high—we largely don’t ask them to step up and be true equals.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OK, who booked the tickets with Mom in front with 2 kids and dad behind chilling by himself on that plane ride? Why not do 2X2? Who buys those shoes? Who does all the childcare? You have to refuse to be the default if you don't want that to be the case. This is why I am choosing not to BF, so DH can do childcare too from early age. Otherwise - mom has boobs, she can soothe the baby better. Mom knows better how to feed the kid, which daycare to pick, which shoes to buy, which doctor to make an appointment with, how to keep kids happy on a plane ride. Daddy is happily a chopped liver, from the get go without having ever to pull his own weight. Um, no.

I largely agree with you--women need to insist that men step up. I think a lot of women prefer to be the primary caregiver and derive a lot of their identity from this role, so while it's tiring, they don't insist on more equitable co-parenting.

The one place where I might disagree with you slightly is the breastfeeding. It is more challenging to coparent equally when breastfeeding, but I think it can be done. When I was pregnant, I heard from other couples that mom can breastfeed at night while dad does diaper change and puts the baby back to bed, so that's what we did. I think it just takes a serious discussion or three about expectations way before the first kid gets here. We had this discussion when talking about marriage--I was not willing to have kids unless we coparented pretty equally. So my husband knew from the outset that it had to be this way.

IMO, I don't think this is it. I think it's because moms want the best for their children, while a lot of men are fine with bare minimum effort. Sure, some moms want "perfection" and at times, it can be unreasonable, but I find many dads have the bare minimum threshold parenting style.

It's complex. "Wanting the best" seems to be a pretty elastic term - being a mommy martyr, one upping other moms and competitive parenting also can be framed as "wanting the best". My MIL gets up at 5 and squeezes fresh juice for DH's breakfast whenever we visit - hey, she wants the best, and that's the model of family he internalized (she had a full time job all along too). Then of course she spends the rest of the day guilt tripping him, but that's a separate thing.

I think unless you expect more, and hand things over, most of DHs don't feel motivated to step up from the bare minimum. If they are actually responsible for something and have space to learn, and yes, fail of fumble until they find their way, then they will step up. Otherwise "what do you want me to do?" with a tone. Don't book 3x1 seats, ever, both literally and metaphorically. 2x2, if you want DH involved. If not - it's ok too, just own your choices.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Marry a man whose mother worked, ladies.

https://www.mommyish.com/sons-working-moms-housework/

I did. MIL worked full time, starting when DH was 3. Unfortunately, she also did absolutely everything else. So, DH's role models for parenting were a father who was a complete slob and never once lifted a finger to help out, and a mother who worked full time and handled all child/household duties.
When we were dating, he swore that he would never turn into his father, because he saw the toll it took on his mother, and he wanted better for his own family. I bought that hook, line, and sinker. Guess what happened? He works and then uses his free time on computer games and several hobby projects. He does at least mow the yard, so I guess there's that. We have a sweet, beautiful DD who loves her Daddy and doesn't understand why Daddy doesn't want to play with her. I have to be the one to make excuses for him: "Daddy's busy right now." ALL the damn time.
He wants another kid. No way is that happening.

IMO, most men are selfish and immature, even after baby arrives. They don't want to change their lives to accommodate a child. They think as long as the child has food and clothes, their job is done. Of course, it's usually the mom who prepares the food and makes sure the child has appropriate clothing.

This sounds like you're speaking about 50s-era dads. I'm 40, and I don't know any dads in my age range or younger who are like this.

I'm the PP from 10:08. We're 40, we both work full-time, and I know LOTS of dads in my age range who are similar.
When DH is actually participating in family life, he is an awesome dad, and DD adores him. But I have to nag until I'm practically blue in the face for that to happen, and I hate to feel like I'm a nagging b!tch all the time. He will admit that he gets too caught up in whatever his interests are, but the behavior pattern never changes. If it wasn't for DD, I would leave.

For your DD, you should either leave or grow up.

Oh, I'm plenty grown up. You know nothing about my life, or how I handle things in person, as opposed to how I vent anonymously online. But, yes, if I'd known this ahead of time, I would not have made the decision to marry and have a child with this man, no matter how much I love him. Unfortunately, hind sight is 20/20, and I do not want to subject DD to divorce just because I disapprove of the level of involvement of DH.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What is with all the anti-man rants on here recently? We get it. I am a woman and I am so tired of the trend to alway put men down. Talk as though they are inferior and invalidate what they do. It's just misandry and its boring. We get it, you think women and mothers are superior and you like putting down others.


It's old and tiresome. You can be a feminist without hating men.

+1

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Woof this is rough. To the women saying they were shocked at their husbands helplessness after kids, I really feel for you. Society has really set us up on this one. Considering this is DC I’m really shocked at how many on these boards say their relationships function this way and the shock over the dad actually knowing how to take care of his kid?! That is nuts and I’m hoping a bit of trolling. Fully capable Dad is definitely a norm in my friend group and any dad who wasn’t pulling his weight would get a side eye for sure. We just spent a weekend with friends and for every family dad and mom switched mornings sleeping in, switched who was handling meal time, sometimes one was relaxing sometimes the other. My husband definitely knows how to do all aspects of our son’s care and where everything is just aswell as me if not better since he does the laundry. It really sucks that the burden falls on the women to hold men accountable for this and make it unacceptable to expect anything less, but I think that’s the reality. I think some of this is also impacted by not having discussions about career decisions and their implications for how it will impact things in the future before kids (and after). My husband and I factored in what kind of family life we wanted when he was deciding whether to go to law school or not. He probably makes less money now as a result, but is a 50:50 caregiver because we put a lot of stake in that early on.

That being said even in a pretty much 50:50 in the physical caretaking load relationship, I would agree the reading of parenting books, planning birthday parties, etc falls to me. It’s not a perfect system no matter how we slice it but for anyone younger reading this for some reason, it doesn’t have to be this way - talk early about expectations, before kids, after, and continual check ins. Hold your partner accountable.

I’m just re-reading my own words and feeling a twinge of it sounding judgmental to the moms posting which was not what I intended - but how it might come across. To be clear this is all on the men. You can’t force your spouse to step up and I was trying to say it sucks that it falls on us to try to push them to do that

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Marry a man whose mother worked, ladies.

https://www.mommyish.com/sons-working-moms-housework/

I did. MIL worked full time, starting when DH was 3. Unfortunately, she also did absolutely everything else. So, DH's role models for parenting were a father who was a complete slob and never once lifted a finger to help out, and a mother who worked full time and handled all child/household duties.
When we were dating, he swore that he would never turn into his father, because he saw the toll it took on his mother, and he wanted better for his own family. I bought that hook, line, and sinker. Guess what happened? He works and then uses his free time on computer games and several hobby projects. He does at least mow the yard, so I guess there's that. We have a sweet, beautiful DD who loves her Daddy and doesn't understand why Daddy doesn't want to play with her. I have to be the one to make excuses for him: "Daddy's busy right now." ALL the damn time.
He wants another kid. No way is that happening.

IMO, most men are selfish and immature, even after baby arrives. They don't want to change their lives to accommodate a child. They think as long as the child has food and clothes, their job is done. Of course, it's usually the mom who prepares the food and makes sure the child has appropriate clothing.

This sounds like you're speaking about 50s-era dads. I'm 40, and I don't know any dads in my age range or younger who are like this.

I'm the PP from 10:08. We're 40, we both work full-time, and I know LOTS of dads in my age range who are similar.
When DH is actually participating in family life, he is an awesome dad, and DD adores him. But I have to nag until I'm practically blue in the face for that to happen, and I hate to feel like I'm a nagging b!tch all the time. He will admit that he gets too caught up in whatever his interests are, but the behavior pattern never changes. If it wasn't for DD, I would leave.

For your DD, you should either leave or grow up.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OK, who booked the tickets with Mom in front with 2 kids and dad behind chilling by himself on that plane ride? Why not do 2X2? Who buys those shoes? Who does all the childcare? You have to refuse to be the default if you don't want that to be the case. This is why I am choosing not to BF, so DH can do childcare too from early age. Otherwise - mom has boobs, she can soothe the baby better. Mom knows better how to feed the kid, which daycare to pick, which shoes to buy, which doctor to make an appointment with, how to keep kids happy on a plane ride. Daddy is happily a chopped liver, from the get go without having ever to pull his own weight. Um, no.

I largely agree with you--women need to insist that men step up. I think a lot of women prefer to be the primary caregiver and derive a lot of their identity from this role, so while it's tiring, they don't insist on more equitable co-parenting.

The one place where I might disagree with you slightly is the breastfeeding. It is more challenging to coparent equally when breastfeeding, but I think it can be done. When I was pregnant, I heard from other couples that mom can breastfeed at night while dad does diaper change and puts the baby back to bed, so that's what we did. I think it just takes a serious discussion or three about expectations way before the first kid gets here. We had this discussion when talking about marriage--I was not willing to have kids unless we coparented pretty equally. So my husband knew from the outset that it had to be this way.

IMO, I don't think this is it. I think it's because moms want the best for their children, while a lot of men are fine with bare minimum effort. Sure, some moms want "perfection" and at times, it can be unreasonable, but I find many dads have the bare minimum threshold parenting style.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Marry a man whose mother worked, ladies.

https://www.mommyish.com/sons-working-moms-housework/

I did. MIL worked full time, starting when DH was 3. Unfortunately, she also did absolutely everything else. So, DH's role models for parenting were a father who was a complete slob and never once lifted a finger to help out, and a mother who worked full time and handled all child/household duties.
When we were dating, he swore that he would never turn into his father, because he saw the toll it took on his mother, and he wanted better for his own family. I bought that hook, line, and sinker. Guess what happened? He works and then uses his free time on computer games and several hobby projects. He does at least mow the yard, so I guess there's that. We have a sweet, beautiful DD who loves her Daddy and doesn't understand why Daddy doesn't want to play with her. I have to be the one to make excuses for him: "Daddy's busy right now." ALL the damn time.
He wants another kid. No way is that happening.

IMO, most men are selfish and immature, even after baby arrives. They don't want to change their lives to accommodate a child. They think as long as the child has food and clothes, their job is done. Of course, it's usually the mom who prepares the food and makes sure the child has appropriate clothing.

This sounds like you're speaking about 50s-era dads. I'm 40, and I don't know any dads in my age range or younger who are like this.

I'm the PP from 10:08. We're 40, we both work full-time, and I know LOTS of dads in my age range who are similar.
When DH is actually participating in family life, he is an awesome dad, and DD adores him. But I have to nag until I'm practically blue in the face for that to happen, and I hate to feel like I'm a nagging b!tch all the time. He will admit that he gets too caught up in whatever his interests are, but the behavior pattern never changes. If it wasn't for DD, I would leave.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Marry a man whose mother worked, ladies.

https://www.mommyish.com/sons-working-moms-housework/

I did. MIL worked full time, starting when DH was 3. Unfortunately, she also did absolutely everything else. So, DH's role models for parenting were a father who was a complete slob and never once lifted a finger to help out, and a mother who worked full time and handled all child/household duties.
When we were dating, he swore that he would never turn into his father, because he saw the toll it took on his mother, and he wanted better for his own family. I bought that hook, line, and sinker. Guess what happened? He works and then uses his free time on computer games and several hobby projects. He does at least mow the yard, so I guess there's that. We have a sweet, beautiful DD who loves her Daddy and doesn't understand why Daddy doesn't want to play with her. I have to be the one to make excuses for him: "Daddy's busy right now." ALL the damn time.
He wants another kid. No way is that happening.

IMO, most men are selfish and immature, even after baby arrives. They don't want to change their lives to accommodate a child. They think as long as the child has food and clothes, their job is done. Of course, it's usually the mom who prepares the food and makes sure the child has appropriate clothing.

This sounds like you're speaking about 50s-era dads. I'm 40, and I don't know any dads in my age range or younger who are like this.

I'm the PP from 10:08. We're 40, we both work full-time, and I know LOTS of dads in my age range who are similar.
When DH is actually participating in family life, he is an awesome dad, and DD adores him. But I have to nag until I'm practically blue in the face for that to happen, and I hate to feel like I'm a nagging b!tch all the time. He will admit that he gets too caught up in whatever his interests are, but the behavior pattern never changes. If it wasn't for DD, I would leave.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Marry a man whose mother worked, ladies.

https://www.mommyish.com/sons-working-moms-housework/

I did. MIL worked full time, starting when DH was 3. Unfortunately, she also did absolutely everything else. So, DH's role models for parenting were a father who was a complete slob and never once lifted a finger to help out, and a mother who worked full time and handled all child/household duties.
When we were dating, he swore that he would never turn into his father, because he saw the toll it took on his mother, and he wanted better for his own family. I bought that hook, line, and sinker. Guess what happened? He works and then uses his free time on computer games and several hobby projects. He does at least mow the yard, so I guess there's that. We have a sweet, beautiful DD who loves her Daddy and doesn't understand why Daddy doesn't want to play with her. I have to be the one to make excuses for him: "Daddy's busy right now." ALL the damn time.
He wants another kid. No way is that happening.

IMO, most men are selfish and immature, even after baby arrives. They don't want to change their lives to accommodate a child. They think as long as the child has food and clothes, their job is done. Of course, it's usually the mom who prepares the food and makes sure the child has appropriate clothing.

This sounds like you're speaking about 50s-era dads. I'm 40, and I don't know any dads in my age range or younger who are like this.

Anonymous wrote:What is with all the anti-man rants on here recently? We get it. I am a woman and I am so tired of the trend to alway put men down. Talk as though they are inferior and invalidate what they do. It's just misandry and its boring. We get it, you think women and mothers are superior and you like putting down others.


It's old and tiresome. You can be a feminist without hating men.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OK, who booked the tickets with Mom in front with 2 kids and dad behind chilling by himself on that plane ride? Why not do 2X2? Who buys those shoes? Who does all the childcare? You have to refuse to be the default if you don't want that to be the case. This is why I am choosing not to BF, so DH can do childcare too from early age. Otherwise - mom has boobs, she can soothe the baby better. Mom knows better how to feed the kid, which daycare to pick, which shoes to buy, which doctor to make an appointment with, how to keep kids happy on a plane ride. Daddy is happily a chopped liver, from the get go without having ever to pull his own weight. Um, no.

I largely agree with you--women need to insist that men step up. I think a lot of women prefer to be the primary caregiver and derive a lot of their identity from this role, so while it's tiring, they don't insist on more equitable co-parenting.

The one place where I might disagree with you slightly is the breastfeeding. It is more challenging to coparent equally when breastfeeding, but I think it can be done. When I was pregnant, I heard from other couples that mom can breastfeed at night while dad does diaper change and puts the baby back to bed, so that's what we did. I think it just takes a serious discussion or three about expectations way before the first kid gets here. We had this discussion when talking about marriage--I was not willing to have kids unless we coparented pretty equally. So my husband knew from the outset that it had to be this way.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Marry a man whose mother worked, ladies.

https://www.mommyish.com/sons-working-moms-housework/

I did. MIL worked full time, starting when DH was 3. Unfortunately, she also did absolutely everything else. So, DH's role models for parenting were a father who was a complete slob and never once lifted a finger to help out, and a mother who worked full time and handled all child/household duties.
When we were dating, he swore that he would never turn into his father, because he saw the toll it took on his mother, and he wanted better for his own family. I bought that hook, line, and sinker. Guess what happened? He works and then uses his free time on computer games and several hobby projects. He does at least mow the yard, so I guess there's that. We have a sweet, beautiful DD who loves her Daddy and doesn't understand why Daddy doesn't want to play with her. I have to be the one to make excuses for him: "Daddy's busy right now." ALL the damn time.
He wants another kid. No way is that happening.

IMO, most men are selfish and immature, even after baby arrives. They don't want to change their lives to accommodate a child. They think as long as the child has food and clothes, their job is done. Of course, it's usually the mom who prepares the food and makes sure the child has appropriate clothing.

This sounds like you're speaking about 50s-era dads. I'm 40, and I don't know any dads in my age range or younger who are like this.