Anonymous
02/28/2023 17:56
Subject: Bates or Colgate
I don't agree with any of what you are saying about Colgate. Unless you went there in the 80s or 90s. the majority of students are not in frats. Its very progressive and I would not at all say most people are targeting Wall Street jobs. Being in NY there are a lot of alums that end up in NYC because of geography. Of all of the people in my class (2018) in NYC, there are a few in finance, but just as many if not more who are teachers, working for museums, ad agencies and publishers. I think in the 80s, ly the 2nd decade with women, it was as you describe, but I would not say that now at all. maybe 8% of students are athletes, but there is a lot of school spirit. This is a very dated opinion of the school.
Anonymous
08/04/2022 08:49
Subject: Bates or Colgate
I would think if you could get into Bates this wouldn't be much of a choice...
Anonymous
08/04/2022 08:28
Subject: Re:Bates or Colgate
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:
They’re so different. Have you done no research at all?
+1. No reasonably well informed person would be considering both.
This is obnoxious nonsense. Colgate and Bates are each highly regarded SLACs. In the Northeast. While DCUM commenters might think their half-baked "impressions" of the two colleges are that they are two mutually exclusive sets, in real life those gaps are a lot less rigid and unbridgeable than DCUM rhetoric assumes (it's not like comparing West Point and Oberlin). They have the same majors, the same clubs and activities, have students of essentially similar qualifications. It's possible that the applicant may see specific things they like in each college (apparently not having received your memo that "no reasonably well informed person would be considering both"). Or maybe has friends who went to each and had a great experience. Or maybe, as a 17 year old, the applicant isn't as set in their ways as the opinionated commenters on DCUM and thinks "hmmm, there's a part of me that could be a Bates person, but there's also a part of me that could be Colgate person." This website is to share helpful information - not to deride people's interests or discourage them from pursuing options that might legitimately appeal to them (notwithstanding your disapproval). Don't make the mistake of thinking or saying you know better -- you don't.
I agree with this, although I think the reality is that the campus cultures are quite different. But, it would be hard for the typical 17 year old to discern tbat from campus tours, checking out the colleges’ websites, reading fiske guide etc. I toured both with my DC and they remain interested in both colleges and did not pick up on either Colgate’s “partying finance bro” atmosphere nor Bates’ “crunchy druggie” atmosphere from the tours, why would they! The tour guides from each college were remarkably similar seeming young women - outgoing student athletes from northeastern states themselves. So I believe many 17 year olds could be considering both colleges as “on paper” there are many similarities (let’s be real, even the difference of a 3k vs 2k student body is meaningless in the abstract to a 17 yr old.) But, having had friends at both colleges and having attended another nescac myself, I do believe the stereotypes being batted around on here regarding campus cultures have some truth to them.
Anonymous
08/04/2022 07:56
Subject: Bates or Colgate
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Colgate alum here. Great education.
Tough social scene, and not exactly the place to learn respect for women.
Are you willing to elaborate on your statement: "tough social scene"
Did you see a lot of grads taking positions in financial services firms & investment banks ?
Thank you in advance.
On the first point, it's very binary; there's the cool kids with a massive greek culture, substance abuse, "contests," it being cool to vomit, a big hookup culture, bragging about not knowing who you woke up with, etc...and there's everyone else: typically marginalized, belittled, and diminished as "not able to get into" the big greek blow-outs that seem to happen every second day. This second group forms their own social scene, but it's very low-key and not very respected by fellow students. For the first group, it seems every year there's something about a party gone wrong, stories of sexual issues (consent, intoxication, assault), hazing, etc. I know of a recent grad, for example, who had to take time off for counseling and detox (an attractive young woman). I also know of a young woman who was seriously considering it reaching out on social media for information only to be objectified by upperclass bros.
On the second point above, sure, there was a fairly large contingent aiming for finance and investment. Nothing wrong with that -- the education was excellent and many of them did well.
I wouldn't say not to go. The education is fantastic if the student can handle being in that sort of environment. That said, the education level is attainable in many other places that aren't nearly so isolated, or stuck in an often toxic culture.
Thank you for your thorough and candid response.
I think that too many romanticize the LAC experience without acknowledging the realities.
I think finance and investment is a great outcome for recent college graduates. Colgate's placement report for 2016 through 2021 shows well over a dozen financial & investment firms as the final destination for many Colgate grads. Many also end up at major accounting firms which have consulting and mergers and acquisitions positions.
Anonymous
08/04/2022 07:49
Subject: Bates or Colgate
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:They’re so different. Have you done no research at all?
Agree.
These posts are so idiotic. Campuses cannot be reduced to the four bullet points you know about them. Many kids can do well at many places. You'd be less critical of a kid applying to Arizona State and Wesleyan, assuming they have their reasons, but suddenly if they're both SLACs, it's 'WOW you are so ignorant!!!'
No. You are ignorant. F off.
-College Counselor
Anonymous
08/04/2022 07:46
Subject: Bates or Colgate
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Colgate alum here. Great education.
Tough social scene, and not exactly the place to learn respect for women.
Are you willing to elaborate on your statement: "tough social scene"
Did you see a lot of grads taking positions in financial services firms & investment banks ?
Thank you in advance.
On the first point, it's very binary; there's the cool kids with a massive greek culture, substance abuse, "contests," it being cool to vomit, a big hookup culture, bragging about not knowing who you woke up with, etc...and there's everyone else: typically marginalized, belittled, and diminished as "not able to get into" the big greek blow-outs that seem to happen every second day. This second group forms their own social scene, but it's very low-key and not very respected by fellow students. For the first group, it seems every year there's something about a party gone wrong, stories of sexual issues (consent, intoxication, assault), hazing, etc. I know of a recent grad, for example, who had to take time off for counseling and detox (an attractive young woman). I also know of a young woman who was seriously considering it reaching out on social media for information only to be objectified by upperclass bros.
On the second point above, sure, there was a fairly large contingent aiming for finance and investment. Nothing wrong with that -- the education was excellent and many of them did well.
I wouldn't say not to go. The education is fantastic if the student can handle being in that sort of environment. That said, the education level is attainable in many other places that aren't nearly so isolated, or stuck in an often toxic culture.
Anonymous
08/04/2022 07:22
Subject: Re:Bates or Colgate
Anonymous wrote:Obviously, we disagree about whether or not Colgate and Bates have very different campus cultures.
No, you're either ignoring or missing the point i've made repeatedly. The campus cultures may well be very different, but it's entirely reasonable for one student to be interested in or apply to both. The previous comment that "no reasonably informed person would be considering both" was unwarranted and incorrect.
Feel free to peruse Colgates website for employment outcomes first job destinations.
Here you go, let's put this to rest. https://public.tableau.com/app/profile/colgate.university.data.analytics.and.decision.support/viz/IndividualEmploymentandContinuingEducationOutcomes/IndividualEmploymentandContinuingEducationOutcomes
Looking at the data for the class of 2019 (last pre-COVID year), you'll see a vast spread of employers from different sectors (as well as grad schools). The only ones taking five or more Colgate grads (from a graduating class of just under 700) are:
EY (24), Colgate (15), Guidepoint (13), NIH (6), Goldman Sachs (6), Memorial Sloan Kettering (5), Brigham and Women's Hospital (5), Wayfair (5). If you look at the other big financial services firms, Citi takes 1, JPM takes 2, BofA Merrill takes four. Not overwhelming out of 700. Compared to say 4 going to Comcast/NBC, 2 going to Google, 1 going to Conde Nast.
Don't respond unless you're prepared to cite some comps for other schools (not just for Bates - the assertion here on DCUM is that the finance contingent at Colgate is "dominant" and exceeds that of other schools). A comment like "6 out of 700 going to Goldman Sachs just feels high to me" would be a kind of pointless retort.
Just do all years on Colgates first jobs report. Lots of students take finance related positions. Many investment banks/investment firms.
These are very different schools due to very different campus cultures.
It would be interesting to view Bates College's placement.
Anyone claiming that Colgate & Bates students are interchangeable is stretching things--somewhat like trying to force a square peg into a round hole.
I am not the poster who wrote the comment that you quoted, but I agree with that posters comment.
Lots of posters who advocate for LACs assert that it is all about fit. I agree. Tough to imagine a student who would be considered a strong fit for Colgate being a strong fit for Bates and vice versa.
Again, this thread is about differentiating Colgate & Bates in order to help OP's student make a decision between the two options. Seems as though you want to muddle that objective.