Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Because of the expectation that you will work to make things more equal.

If you are a privileged person, you will give up some privileges.

Bingo. No one is willing to do what needs to be done for this to happen. So no one wants to admit they are "over" privileged or that their children are and that it's not fair.


Here's our situation. We live in a 2 million house in a close in neighborhood to NYC. My husband and I make over 750k between us. Our children go to great public schools but we could easily send them to private if we wanted. They travel the world at least 4 times a year and they are growing up with private ski lessons, tennis lessons, swim lessons, and on and on. They're all under 10 and each have over 200k in college savings already. No we're not yachting around in the Mediterranean and my daughter can't grow up to be a professional equestrian. But I'm sure most people would consider them "over" privileged and would love to punish them in some way for getting things they lack.

eat the rich

Instead of bean-counting who is privileged in what way, our society should be expending those resources making sure that there is equality of opportunity, not of outcome. Scales, affirmative action, etc., are all attempts to create equality of outcome in an unjust system. Instead, we need to make sure all children regardless of socioeconomic or racial makeup have access to childcare, healthcare, and excellent schools.

Anonymous wrote:I am shocked by how many people are upset of the SAT adversity score. They do not want to admit the privileges that their children having growing up in a nice school district, safe school, etc. These are all great things! Everyone wants these things for their kids but sadly, many kids do not have access to these resources. Why are people so afraid to own that privilege and be proud of it while also working toward the same future for other kids? What are you afraid of? Honestly if you kid doesn't get into HPY and goes to say, UVA- what do you think will happen? Do you really think their future is lost? Are you afraid they will end up on the streets?

Seriously please help me understand...

I'm not sure you really want to understand, because it seems rather obvious but here goes: They believe that admitting these privileges will be used as a way of discrediting their achievements and glossing over whatever hardships they faced that are less obvious or measurable. And they are often correct. Just see the comments in this thread. They fear the adversity score will be misused in inappropriate ways, rewarding some and penalizing others in a system that is easy to game or which doesn't correctly account for the diversity of their experience because it's not a measured (or perhaps measurable) criteria. These are all very legitimate concerns, and I say this as someone who agrees with the sentiment that we should be working towards a future where all kids are entitled to great schools and opportunities.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Fck off. I worked for my "privilege". My parents were the first in my family to go to college. I resent this being counted against my kids for purely political reasons.

You really don’t get it apparently.

I’m a lawyer in biglaw. No one in the building works harder than the janitorial staff. And many of them have second and third jobs. Lots of people work hard. But their hard work doesn’t help their kids like mine does.

People think that "privilege" means you never faced adversity. It doesn't. It means that any adversity you faced was not the result of your race/gender/poverty.

It's also really hard for people to accept that their success was not purely the result of "hard work."

Seems even harder for people to accept that they had agency and, through bad choices or inaction, played a part in their own lack of success.

Seems completely impossible for some people on this board to stop punching downward.

Right? People have so much invested in believing that people always get what they "deserve." Yes, people have agency. Yes, people make choices. But people have different choices available to them based on factors that are totally beyond their control. And the same choice can have very different consequences depending on factors beyond their control. And sometimes bad stuff just happens--you or a family member gets sick, or laid off, or your car breaks down, and again, the consequences can be very different depending on factors beyond your control. Instead of thinking "there but for the grace of God go I," some people just dig in with the idea that we live in a world where actions and consequences are perfectly matched.

I know some people who made plenty of poor choices in high school--drinking, crashing their car because they drove too fast, stealing street signs, slacking off in school--and they are living perfectly normal lives now as adults. They were all white guys from well-off families, and their parents could afford to hire a lawyer or buy them a new car or pay for college without needing scholarships or taking out crushing loans. That's privilege. They got breaks that a poor black kid wouldn't have gotten. Or even a poor white kid, really.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:


You can’t put a number on someone’s adversity.

That’s why people are so frustrated.

My mother was mentally ill and abusive my entire childhood. It was adversity, but I could never include it on an application.

I am not white.

When there's massive historical inequality coupled with a swift and massive sequestration of resources by the ultra-rich in the US, yes, you certainly can assign a number to it, though you can certainly quibble over what that number should be.

This is the difference between a personal story such as your own and a wider story such as the experience of most black people in this country.

I question your premise? Can you assign a number to it?

How?

And what do you do once you have that number?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Privilege is just a loaded word

Apparently it's privilege that instead of going on fancy vacations and spending on cars we lived more frugally so we could afford to live in a better school district

Apparently it's privilege to encourage your kids to work hard, study and get good grades

I just call bs on all of it

Doing those things is common sense and if more folks would do it we wouldn't be having these discussions

Apparently it's privilege to go to school/military/trade/skill/job then get married and TEHN have kids once you can afford them

Again if people did that poverty would almost disappear in a generation

It erases all mental illness and disabilities... who knew.

Anonymous wrote:Because of the expectation that you will work to make things more equal.

If you are a privileged person, you will give up some privileges.

Bingo. No one is willing to do what needs to be done for this to happen. So no one wants to admit they are "over" privileged or that their children are and that it's not fair.


Here's our situation. We live in a 2 million house in a close in neighborhood to NYC. My husband and I make over 750k between us. Our children go to great public schools but we could easily send them to private if we wanted. They travel the world at least 4 times a year and they are growing up with private ski lessons, tennis lessons, swim lessons, and on and on. They're all under 10 and each have over 200k in college savings already. No we're not yachting around in the Mediterranean and my daughter can't grow up to be a professional equestrian. But I'm sure most people would consider them "over" privileged and would love to punish them in some way for getting things they lack.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Fck off. I worked for my "privilege". My parents were the first in my family to go to college. I resent this being counted against my kids for purely political reasons.

You really don’t get it apparently.

I’m a lawyer in biglaw. No one in the building works harder than the janitorial staff. And many of them have second and third jobs. Lots of people work hard. But their hard work doesn’t help their kids like mine does.

People think that "privilege" means you never faced adversity. It doesn't. It means that any adversity you faced was not the result of your race/gender/poverty.

It's also really hard for people to accept that their success was not purely the result of "hard work."

This is one of the best statements here. It doesn't take away from my success to admit that in addition to a lot of hard work, I had some luck and privilege getting where I am.

That's okay, even, as long as I don't pull up the ladder behind me.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:


You can’t put a number on someone’s adversity.

That’s why people are so frustrated.

My mother was mentally ill and abusive my entire childhood. It was adversity, but I could never include it on an application.

I am not white.

When there's massive historical inequality coupled with a swift and massive sequestration of resources by the ultra-rich in the US, yes, you certainly can assign a number to it, though you can certainly quibble over what that number should be.

This is the difference between a personal story such as your own and a wider story such as the experience of most black people in this country.

I think there should be a name other than adversity scale because by using that word (rather than privilege, for example) it’s not surpring that it makes people reflect on the sometimes severe adversity they’ve faced (which they may be not feel comfortable writing about in a personal system) that is not included in the scale.

I think the scale is a good idea, but the name seems sure to cause more backlash than a more descriptive one (socioeconomic and racial adversity scale, even.)

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

How do people avoid poverty if the minimum wage (which is all you can expect to earn, at least at first, if you have only an HS diploma) will not rent you a two-bedroom in 99 percent of the nation's counties? How do you pay for a trade school if all you're earning is minimum wage?

Read the PPs more closely.

You don't need a two-bedroom apartment all to yourself if you are single, and remember, you don't have kids yet!. You won't have kids for -years-.

So as a single 19 or 20 year old with a high school degree, earning minimum wage, you rent a room in a group house if you're in an expensive city. Maybe you even share that room that has 2 twin-size beds with another person?

If you're in, say, Dubuque IA, and group homes aren't a thing, you rent a basement from a SFH homeowner on the outskirts of town. Maybe you rent that basement with a roommate.

Are you in my hometown in Kansas, working in an agribusiness processing plant? Then you and 5 of your friends at the plant rent the whole damn house, and you follow the rules and don't trash the house and the owner lets you continue to rent for years as you attend night school at the county community college.

All of this is doable. It's hard as hell to live in deprivation without that second bedroom and balcony, but a healthy, childless, single 19 year old working 40+ hours a week can do it.

You don't even have to do the "rent a room" thing. Renting a (shared) apartment is a norm for most people into their mid-late 20s at least! And this is doable for someone with a high school diploma who gets a job as say...a cashier at Target or Walmart. They pay $17-18 an hour for people who HAVE a diploma...(and about $14 to those who do not.) Costco pays well too. There are many jobs open to those with a HIGH SCHOOL diploma.

But again, we are talking about getting a HS diploma, then getting a job, THEN starting a family after you've had a couple of years to start earning increases and saving up. It's not easy, but it is possible.

Will you own a 3 bedroom home by the time you're 32? Probably not.
But you likely will be able to afford a 2 bedroom apartment in your late 20s and count on being able to provide meals for your family. And that is well above the poverty level.

Very nice DP I'll add minimum wage is a minimum wage. No one is supposed to stay there or live off of it frankly. If you are making minimum wage after 3 years of working the problem is you.

Anonymous wrote:

How do people avoid poverty if the minimum wage (which is all you can expect to earn, at least at first, if you have only an HS diploma) will not rent you a two-bedroom in 99 percent of the nation's counties? How do you pay for a trade school if all you're earning is minimum wage?

Read the PPs more closely.

You don't need a two-bedroom apartment all to yourself if you are single, and remember, you don't have kids yet!. You won't have kids for -years-.

So as a single 19 or 20 year old with a high school degree, earning minimum wage, you rent a room in a group house if you're in an expensive city. Maybe you even share that room that has 2 twin-size beds with another person?

If you're in, say, Dubuque IA, and group homes aren't a thing, you rent a basement from a SFH homeowner on the outskirts of town. Maybe you rent that basement with a roommate.

Are you in my hometown in Kansas, working in an agribusiness processing plant? Then you and 5 of your friends at the plant rent the whole damn house, and you follow the rules and don't trash the house and the owner lets you continue to rent for years as you attend night school at the county community college.

All of this is doable. It's hard as hell to live in deprivation without that second bedroom and balcony, but a healthy, childless, single 19 year old working 40+ hours a week can do it.

You don't even have to do the "rent a room" thing. Renting a (shared) apartment is a norm for most people into their mid-late 20s at least! And this is doable for someone with a high school diploma who gets a job as say...a cashier at Target or Walmart. They pay $17-18 an hour for people who HAVE a diploma...(and about $14 to those who do not.) Costco pays well too. There are many jobs open to those with a HIGH SCHOOL diploma.

But again, we are talking about getting a HS diploma, then getting a job, THEN starting a family after you've had a couple of years to start earning increases and saving up. It's not easy, but it is possible.

Will you own a 3 bedroom home by the time you're 32? Probably not.
But you likely will be able to afford a 2 bedroom apartment in your late 20s and count on being able to provide meals for your family. And that is well above the poverty level.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Fck off. I worked for my "privilege". My parents were the first in my family to go to college. I resent this being counted against my kids for purely political reasons.

You really don’t get it apparently.

I’m a lawyer in biglaw. No one in the building works harder than the janitorial staff. And many of them have second and third jobs. Lots of people work hard. But their hard work doesn’t help their kids like mine does.

People think that "privilege" means you never faced adversity. It doesn't. It means that any adversity you faced was not the result of your race/gender/poverty.

It's also really hard for people to accept that their success was not purely the result of "hard work."

Seems even harder for people to accept that they had agency and, through bad choices or inaction, played a part in their own lack of success.

Seems completely impossible for some people on this board to stop punching downward.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Fck off. I worked for my "privilege". My parents were the first in my family to go to college. I resent this being counted against my kids for purely political reasons.

You really don’t get it apparently.

I’m a lawyer in biglaw. No one in the building works harder than the janitorial staff. And many of them have second and third jobs. Lots of people work hard. But their hard work doesn’t help their kids like mine does.

People think that "privilege" means you never faced adversity. It doesn't. It means that any adversity you faced was not the result of your race/gender/poverty.

It's also really hard for people to accept that their success was not purely the result of "hard work."

Seems even harder for people to accept that they had agency and, through bad choices or inaction, played a part in their own lack of success.

Anonymous wrote:


You can’t put a number on someone’s adversity.

That’s why people are so frustrated.

My mother was mentally ill and abusive my entire childhood. It was adversity, but I could never include it on an application.

I am not white.

When there's massive historical inequality coupled with a swift and massive sequestration of resources by the ultra-rich in the US, yes, you certainly can assign a number to it, though you can certainly quibble over what that number should be.

This is the difference between a personal story such as your own and a wider story such as the experience of most black people in this country.

Anonymous wrote:My husband is an outlier in this regard - and I appreciate that. He’s tall, white, handsome, grew up UMC in a tony Boston suburb, superb education (Nobles, GW, Hopkins). He was given a winning hand at birth, and talks about his luck in life. Yes, he works hard, but acknowledges that his success comes mostly from his circumstances and peer group growing up.

Does he do anything besides talk the talk? I.e. would you be willing to let kids from "bad" school districts come to your school for free?