E-Scooter Deaths Show Urgent Need for Safer Streets

https://usa.streetsblog.org/2018/09/24/e-scooter-deaths-underscore-the-urgent-need-for-safer-streets/

This is from the "pre-scooter debate" erea

Man killed in electric scooter crash in Washington DC

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-45596449


Georgia
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=16&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwjJju3gy_nhAhWtT98KHdDQBocQFjAPegQIBBAB&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.foxnews.com%2Fus%2Fgeorgia-man-dies-after-crashing-electric-scooter-into-tree-in-san-diego-first-such-death-in-city&usg=AOvVaw1CObol9Cl89iG0YaU3M5A7

Texas
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=14&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwjJju3gy_nhAhWtT98KHdDQBocQFjANegQIBxAB&url=https%3A%2F%2Faustin.curbed.com%2F2019%2F2%2F6%2F18214119%2Faustin-electric-scooter-death-fatalities-injuries&usg=AOvVaw2klV8a-kOW_x4TnsCFphPm

and on and on..

I like the scooters and have taken them a few times when the bus is running late, or when I don't want to call an Uber.

But, yeah, people need to be better about riding them in the bike lanes and following traffic laws instead of the hauling down the sidewalk. And putting them off to the side, out of the way when they're done. Also, I've seen adults renting the scooters, then passing them off to their (7-10yo) kids. Don't do this. And FFS, don't try to ride the scooter with your toddler balanced in front of you!

I occasionally ride an electric scooter to work, but mine goes inside my work building with me, so it certainly doesn't litter the sidewalk.
I also commute at times that there aren't a lot of others on the sidewalks-- leaving for work no later than 5:45 AM. I am very careful to avoid others when I do encounter them (which is not often).

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:https://driving-tests.org/driving-statistics/

42% of the surveyed drivers said they don’t consider going 10 mph over the speed limit to be speeding. Another 10% said they don’t think a 20 mph increase is speeding. (Everquote, 2016) Drivers speed at least 10 mph more than half of the time. (Everquote, 2016) (Source: https://driving-tests.org/driving-statistics/)

So what? The speed limits are for everyone's safety and not imaginary numbers. The faster people go the more accidents especially in urban areas and on beltway-like highways.

I agree with you. This was in response to someone above saying that drivers mostly obey the law, in contrast to scooter riders.

Anonymous wrote:https://driving-tests.org/driving-statistics/

42% of the surveyed drivers said they don’t consider going 10 mph over the speed limit to be speeding. Another 10% said they don’t think a 20 mph increase is speeding. (Everquote, 2016) Drivers speed at least 10 mph more than half of the time. (Everquote, 2016) (Source: https://driving-tests.org/driving-statistics/)

So what? The speed limits are for everyone's safety and not imaginary numbers. The faster people go the more accidents especially in urban areas and on beltway-like highways.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Listen, people are not using them as alternatives to cars, that’s a false ideology on a grand scale and a marketing scheme to try to excuse a business from dumping their product on the streets with no license, no regulation, and no upkeep.

There is a study in Portland showing they are used as alternatives to cars.

No one is commuting on them on the regular.

I see people in business clothes on them in DC regularly on weekdays.

Sorry you don’t like the look of parked cars, Its as valid a concern as not liking the look of scooters.


but cars are docked or else they’re towed. I can’t park my car in the middle of the sidewalk, bike path, in your yard, on a trash can, in the middle of the street.

You park your car in one of the zillion parking spaces you are given out of the public right of way. If we gave scooters designated places to park on the side of the street, as ubiquitous as car parking is, we would not have a scooter parking problem.

Sorry you are trying to explain to handicap people what kind of standard they need to meet for you to have them be justified in their complaints. Do you ask the same of minorities when they complain about race issues? You need to check yourself on that.

If handicapped people (but this is DCUM, I have no idea if you are really handicapped) want to remove a source of mobility for others, they can expect people to argue back. Just as if I want cars banned because someone I know suffered permanent disability due to one I would expect people to argue back.

I know who you are now, you wrote the same thing on Justin Wilson's facebook page (but out of respect for DCUM I won't post your name). You are one of those uber bike fans, all bikes only your way, or nothing else at all, everyone else is wrong, and you really don't care about handicap people (except blind cyclists on Quaker/Seminary road). Shame on you, gain some perspective on others, and stop citing the same thing everywhere because you are outted man.

lol, I know who this is as well. He is really obnoxious.

No kidding.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What are you even talking about? You can find a “study” that will tell you whatever you want. Throwing some NYTimes blog from 11 years ago isn’t really convincing. But good for you, you did it!

I see no evidence the percentage of speeders has declined recently, and there are multiple studies confirming the finding.

Man, living with you must be rough.

The classic DCUM move, when you are confronted with facts, go ad hominem and irrelevant.

Perhaps I am rough to live with. You are still wrong.

Man, I know it was had for you to get that out there, and it doesn't prove anything, but you did it, good for you. Gold star.

a friend of our family was killed on one while on business in california.

Chris Conti - a hell of a wrestler at Annandale High School in the 80's.

very sad.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Listen, people are not using them as alternatives to cars, that’s a false ideology on a grand scale and a marketing scheme to try to excuse a business from dumping their product on the streets with no license, no regulation, and no upkeep.

There is a study in Portland showing they are used as alternatives to cars.

No one is commuting on them on the regular.

I see people in business clothes on them in DC regularly on weekdays.

Sorry you don’t like the look of parked cars, Its as valid a concern as not liking the look of scooters.


but cars are docked or else they’re towed. I can’t park my car in the middle of the sidewalk, bike path, in your yard, on a trash can, in the middle of the street.

You park your car in one of the zillion parking spaces you are given out of the public right of way. If we gave scooters designated places to park on the side of the street, as ubiquitous as car parking is, we would not have a scooter parking problem.

Sorry you are trying to explain to handicap people what kind of standard they need to meet for you to have them be justified in their complaints. Do you ask the same of minorities when they complain about race issues? You need to check yourself on that.

If handicapped people (but this is DCUM, I have no idea if you are really handicapped) want to remove a source of mobility for others, they can expect people to argue back. Just as if I want cars banned because someone I know suffered permanent disability due to one I would expect people to argue back.

I know who you are now, you wrote the same thing on Justin Wilson's facebook page (but out of respect for DCUM I won't post your name). You are one of those uber bike fans, all bikes only your way, or nothing else at all, everyone else is wrong, and you really don't care about handicap people (except blind cyclists on Quaker/Seminary road). Shame on you, gain some perspective on others, and stop citing the same thing everywhere because you are outted man.

lol, I know who this is as well. He is really obnoxious.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Omg you are going to be so surprised when you learn how bad cars are for health, safety, the environment, and more.

I bet you’ll be super ranty about that because I’m sure you’re not hypocritical at all.

But drivers of cars follow the law (for the most part, you know what I mean) - they stay in their lanes, they don't go the wrong way down a one-way street, they don't park in randomly created spaces that block entry/egress, they stop at lights and stop signs, and the drivers are licensed and have had training before drivers are allowed on the streets.

Almost all drivers speed. Most jurisdictions won't even ticket for speeding until the driver is 10MPH over the limit - but yes, going one mph over the limit is breaking the law. Large numbers of drivers run reds, run stops, make right turns on red without stopping, make illegal U turns, change lanes dangerously, make turns from an improper lane or go straight from a turn only lane. Fail to yield to pedestrians where required, fail to use turn signals. That does not even get into blocking crosswalks or parking in bike lanes.

All this in big fast vehicles that can and regulalry DO kill.

OMG. I specifically said "you know what I mean" but apparently you don't. The majority - the vast, vast, vast majority of drivers follow the rules of the road. As there are no rules of the road for the scooters it is chaotic and dangerous out there.

I honestly don’t know what reality you live in. Best case scenario, you have a really bad case of confirmation bias. You drive and so you don’t see all the transgressions drivers make. Or you’ve grown to accept them as normal. But you don’t bike or ride a scooter, so every transgression they make is a big deal.

-try driving the speed limit and see how many other drivers aggressively tail you because speeding is the normal
-drivers roll through stop signs and stop lights. If they didn’t then the red light cameras would not make any tickets
-drivers will park wherever they want, including in bike lanes, on sidewalks, in front of fire hydrants, in loading zones, bus stops, crosswalks...
-drivers many times swerve in their lane. Maybe it’s nodding off, drugs/alcohol, their sandwich, a very important text, or their high score in fruit ninja
-I live on a one way street and drivers do go the wrong way on it many times per day
-drivers block the box at intersections causing gridlock and block crosswalks impeding pedestrians
-drivers drive their car into things and people causing significant damage
-drivers may have passed a test decades ago in another jurisdiction, but don’t know local laws. For example, an asshat nearly ran me over in a crosswalk (I had the walk signal) making a left on red because “left on red I legal when both streets are one-way!!”. No, asshat, not in DC.

I can keep going, but yes “I know what you mean” it’s just not saying anything great about your perspective on the world.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What are you even talking about? You can find a “study” that will tell you whatever you want. Throwing some NYTimes blog from 11 years ago isn’t really convincing. But good for you, you did it!

I see no evidence the percentage of speeders has declined recently, and there are multiple studies confirming the finding.

Man, living with you must be rough.

The classic DCUM move, when you are confronted with facts, go ad hominem and irrelevant.

Perhaps I am rough to live with. You are still wrong.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Omg you are going to be so surprised when you learn how bad cars are for health, safety, the environment, and more.

I bet you’ll be super ranty about that because I’m sure you’re not hypocritical at all.

But drivers of cars follow the law (for the most part, you know what I mean) - they stay in their lanes, they don't go the wrong way down a one-way street, they don't park in randomly created spaces that block entry/egress, they stop at lights and stop signs, and the drivers are licensed and have had training before drivers are allowed on the streets.

Almost all drivers speed. Most jurisdictions won't even ticket for speeding until the driver is 10MPH over the limit - but yes, going one mph over the limit is breaking the law. Large numbers of drivers run reds, run stops, make right turns on red without stopping, make illegal U turns, change lanes dangerously, make turns from an improper lane or go straight from a turn only lane. Fail to yield to pedestrians where required, fail to use turn signals. That does not even get into blocking crosswalks or parking in bike lanes.

All this in big fast vehicles that can and regulalry DO kill.

Did you get these “statistics” from your Portland study? “Almost all” “most jurisdictions” “large number of drivers”.

You don't need statistics to know what the PP stated above is true. You only need eyes. I'm mostly a pedestrian and I see drivers making grievous errors every day, all the time.

I am also mostly a pedestrian. Which is precisely why we don't *also* need people making grievous errors on sidewalks and trails every day, all the time, with scooters. It's one place where it should be pretty safe, and where pedestrians shouldn't have to worry about something with a motor rolling up behind them.

So we need to get the scooters off the sidewalk. We might need to do something about all those speeding drivers to make it safer for scooter riders to get into the street. Or maybe we should have protected bike/scooter lanes.

https://driving-tests.org/driving-statistics/

42% of the surveyed drivers said they don’t consider going 10 mph over the speed limit to be speeding. Another 10% said they don’t think a 20 mph increase is speeding. (Everquote, 2016) Drivers speed at least 10 mph more than half of the time. (Everquote, 2016) (Source: https://driving-tests.org/driving-statistics/)

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What are you even talking about? You can find a “study” that will tell you whatever you want. Throwing some NYTimes blog from 11 years ago isn’t really convincing. But good for you, you did it!

I see no evidence the percentage of speeders has declined recently, and there are multiple studies confirming the finding.

Man, living with you must be rough.