Anonymous
Post 04/15/2019 11:35     Subject: Re:Do you actively or unintentionally discourage your daughters ....
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I grew up in a small rural town in Minnesota, and my parents NEVER talked about my future life as a mother or a wife. They encouraged me to be a curious child, educate myself, and contribute to society. Discussions of baby names, dream husbands, and the like, never happened.


I’m from the south, but same.


Two questions. One: you don't think that devoting yourself to motherhood is "contributing to society?" Two, what exactly is your wonderful contribution?



+1. And why is "discussion of baby names, dream husbands, etc" such a forbidden topic of conversation? Don't most people want to eventually settle down with someone they love and have children with them? Why do we have to act like something that is normal and desired by most humans is something that can't be discussed with our kids. Especially, heaven forbid, our daughters?


PP from south here. No, I don't really think "devoting yourself to motherhood" is necessarily contributing to society, given the environmental impact of raising several kids. There is also a positive economic impact when more women are in the workforce. Finally, I personally feel more fulfilled with looking outward and contributing to the world around me. I'm in healthcare research.
Anonymous
Post 04/15/2019 11:26     Subject: Do you actively or unintentionally discourage your daughters ....
Anonymous wrote:I will never make as much as I would have as a lawyer


I know a very smart guy with an Ivy league undergrad who went to law school and wound up as a temp for a decade and a half, and a bunch of other miserable law grads barely scraping by. The salary distribution for lawyers is very bimodal.
Anonymous
Post 04/15/2019 09:15     Subject: Do you actively or unintentionally discourage your daughters ....
Anonymous wrote:Having done both: worked at a rewarding job and been SAHM. SAHM is a full time job if your DH has long lawyer hours. Working full time was easier than SAHM. Outsourcing everything is VERY expensive.


Sure, but you have to marry a man who can support a family.

So maybe we should tell our daughters to either marry rich or get a flexible, well paying job.
Anonymous
Post 04/15/2019 09:13     Subject: Do you actively or unintentionally discourage your daughters ....
Having done both: worked at a rewarding job and been SAHM. SAHM is a full time job if your DH has long lawyer hours. Working full time was easier than SAHM. Outsourcing everything is VERY expensive.
Anonymous
Post 04/15/2019 09:05     Subject: Re:Do you actively or unintentionally discourage your daughters ....
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I tell my HS age daughter that when she is ready to have children, we will do everything to help. Most successful families use a combination of financial and in-person help from grandparents. Women who only rely on themselves either suffer setbacks in their career or marriage or their childrearing, especially if children are not perfectly healthy since infancy. We will do our best to support her. We are not rich, middle class yet not upper middle. However, my husband and I are both good with babies. If she has fire in her belly to pursue a career, we will support her

College tuition, on the other hand? Scholarships and loans. No one supported me, and it set me.back all right.


I don't get this? Are you saying if she pursues motherhood you're good with kids so will help out and help the kids, maybe even financially, but if she pursues a professional career it's on her to take out a ton of loans and start out in life with a whole bunch of debt?

And fire in her belly to pursue a career...unless you're totally loaded, I think every girl should have fire to pursue a career. Even if they quit and become a SAHM for the rest of their lives after 30 they should at least have SOME ambition I would think...


Yeah I don't get this either. Support her to go to college and then she can support her own kids and not rely on a man. It's weird to encourage her to have babies.

Student loan debt is crushing and most people my age (early 30s) waited to have kids because of it.
Anonymous
Post 04/15/2019 09:01     Subject: Do you actively or unintentionally discourage your daughters ....
I'm only 33 but I would advise daughters away from careers without maternity leave or that work more than 50 hours. Men can have it all, but women cannot. I hoped the world would be different when I had children, but it didn't. Two unpaid maternity leaves have really hurt my finances and career.

And then you come on DCUM and they tell me I shouldn't have been an engineer if I wanted maternity leave. It's a tough world out there for women who want to be mothers and still work.
Anonymous
Post 04/15/2019 08:55     Subject: Re:Do you actively or unintentionally discourage your daughters ....
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I grew up in a small rural town in Minnesota, and my parents NEVER talked about my future life as a mother or a wife. They encouraged me to be a curious child, educate myself, and contribute to society. Discussions of baby names, dream husbands, and the like, never happened.


I’m from the south, but same.


Two questions. One: you don't think that devoting yourself to motherhood is "contributing to society?" Two, what exactly is your wonderful contribution?



+1. And why is "discussion of baby names, dream husbands, etc" such a forbidden topic of conversation? Don't most people want to eventually settle down with someone they love and have children with them? Why do we have to act like something that is normal and desired by most humans is something that can't be discussed with our kids. Especially, heaven forbid, our daughters?


It's not forbidden. But if you're gonna do it, do it with your sons too. And teach them that they too need to put in work to make healthy marriages and families work.

“We teach girls to shrink themselves, to make themselves smaller. We say to girls, you can have ambition, but not too much. You should aim to be successful, but not too successful. Otherwise, you would threaten the man. Because I am female, I am expected to aspire to marriage. I am expected to make my life choices always keeping in mind that marriage is the most important. Now marriage can be a source of joy and love and mutual support but why do we teach girls to aspire to marriage and we don’t teach boys the same?"
- Chimamanda Ngozi Adichie
Anonymous
Post 04/15/2019 08:48     Subject: Do you actively or unintentionally discourage your daughters ....
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I discourage both my kids (boy and girl) from going to law school. Because I’m a lawyer and don’t think anyone should go to law school!


+1


My parents did this with me, and while I have a career I enjoy and am successful in and had good maternity benefits... I will never make as much as I would have as a lawyer, and I repeatedly find myself thinking what if... just fyi. I think there is a balance between sharing your benefit of experience versus pushing one decision as right or wrong.
Anonymous
Post 04/15/2019 08:42     Subject: Do you actively or unintentionally discourage your daughters ....
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Women and men are not the same. Men do not get pregnant, give birth or breastfeed. So if those things are part of a woman's vision for the future then they need to plan differently than a man or woman who doesn't want those things.

You can't have it all. There are finite hours in a day and a week. Many women (at all) are still more likely to want to spend more time with their children in the early years and many men (not all) are still more likely to want to be the provider for their family. What makes people feel valued and productive and fulfilled varies - and that should drive where they prioritize their time.

I have two siblings - my older brother is an engineer and his wife is a SAHM. My younger brother is a SAHD and his wife is a physician. My brother also does some part time consultant work. It works well for both of them. The more career oriented person is building their career and the more maternal / paternal oriented person is at home with the kids. It was important to my younger brother to maintain some paid employment and so he has. My SAHM SIL has gotten very involved in a couple charitable organizations where she volunteers and that gives her meaning outside of her at home role.

When his kids were really young, my older brother was able to flex his day and be home by 3:30, and he worked from home 1 day a week.

My Dr SIL is now considering a chance so she can be home more as she is finding she is missing too much of her kids lives.

If you put your time and effort into what you need to feel productive and fuilfilled and then shift that as time goes, that to me is the best of both worlds.


I think we will see a rise in SAHDs when our kids are older. There is a recognition of a benefit to one parent taking on the kids while the other focuses on career, and I think this next generation will be more open to dads taking on that role than our own was.


This.
People are always saying "men didn't have to choose...they get to be a career man AND a parent"...but that wasn't the case at all. Traditionally, DAD was a career man b/c that was his role in the division of labor arrangement in the family. When MOM decided to do that too...well then suddenly she thought she TOO could "do it all" but that assumption ignored the reality that DAD never was "doing it all" to begin with. MOM was taking care of the household responsibilities and 90% of the child raising duties...and DAD was earning the money from his career to make that possible. Dad didnt' have to call out sick when Junior had the sniffles or do laundry on weekends or rush home early to pick up the kids from school and shuttle them to baseball practice b/c mom was doing all that WHILE HE WORKED.

Somehow along the way women were told "women can have it all" but it's impossible for one person to do the full-time job of both people. And yet we told men that nothing would change and this would be great for them too! It isn't. (Not that I'm saying it wouldn't be ideal to be able to balance it all...but the reality is that women having careers AND men having careers means that both have to do MORE than their career--because having a career and taking care of a household/family are each full-time jobs...and everyone is stretched thin!)

So yeah. I agree that we may see our own kids figure out more of a way to make it work so that one of the parents is doing the bulk of the parenting and household responsibilities again (but this time it could be mom OR dad doing it) while the other earns the income. They may trade off a bit more. But I think the kids are seeing a generation of parents frustrated at each other for not "helping" enough at home in favor of our careers. And maybe that's how they will work it out.


You ignore how much children were responsible for themselves. If you wanted to play a sport, you schlepped yourself to practice, got a job to offset costs, etc. In many ways, parents have added to their home/family responsibilities. And work for the sake of appearances, work for the sake of work, is becoming normalized.
Anonymous
Post 04/15/2019 08:15     Subject: Do you actively or unintentionally discourage your daughters ....
I agree with the poster that there is a difference between men and women. It would drive me nuts in med school when I asked if any women in med school had children and someone would point me to a man in the class with a child. Def not the same!
Anonymous
Post 04/15/2019 07:55     Subject: Re:Do you actively or unintentionally discourage your daughters ....
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I tell my HS age daughter that when she is ready to have children, we will do everything to help. Most successful families use a combination of financial and in-person help from grandparents. Women who only rely on themselves either suffer setbacks in their career or marriage or their childrearing, especially if children are not perfectly healthy since infancy. We will do our best to support her. We are not rich, middle class yet not upper middle. However, my husband and I are both good with babies. If she has fire in her belly to pursue a career, we will support her

College tuition, on the other hand? Scholarships and loans. No one supported me, and it set me.back all right.


I don't get this? Are you saying if she pursues motherhood you're good with kids so will help out and help the kids, maybe even financially, but if she pursues a professional career it's on her to take out a ton of loans and start out in life with a whole bunch of debt?

And fire in her belly to pursue a career...unless you're totally loaded, I think every girl should have fire to pursue a career. Even if they quit and become a SAHM for the rest of their lives after 30 they should at least have SOME ambition I would think...


If I had the money, I would pay for her college. But my career suffered when my daughter had developmental delays, we had no one to help eother financially or personally, and we made a decision for me to stay at home for several years because that was our bedt choice. I am now back to work, we have a home and a second child, but realistically we cannot cover more than in-state tuition for our children.

In the meantime, out oldest overcame her delays and is one of the top students in her high school (and I suspect in the county). I fully support her path, will help with her future kids as narrated in the original post. That said, if she makes it into a top-20 selective college, we are not in a position to cover more than $20-$25k of tuition.

Donut hole families come in many shapes and sizes.
Anonymous
Post 04/15/2019 01:01     Subject: Re:Do you actively or unintentionally discourage your daughters ....
Anonymous wrote:I tell my HS age daughter that when she is ready to have children, we will do everything to help. Most successful families use a combination of financial and in-person help from grandparents. Women who only rely on themselves either suffer setbacks in their career or marriage or their childrearing, especially if children are not perfectly healthy since infancy. We will do our best to support her. We are not rich, middle class yet not upper middle. However, my husband and I are both good with babies. If she has fire in her belly to pursue a career, we will support her

College tuition, on the other hand? Scholarships and loans. No one supported me, and it set me.back all right.


I don't get this? Are you saying if she pursues motherhood you're good with kids so will help out and help the kids, maybe even financially, but if she pursues a professional career it's on her to take out a ton of loans and start out in life with a whole bunch of debt?

And fire in her belly to pursue a career...unless you're totally loaded, I think every girl should have fire to pursue a career. Even if they quit and become a SAHM for the rest of their lives after 30 they should at least have SOME ambition I would think...
Anonymous
Post 04/14/2019 23:17     Subject: Re:Do you actively or unintentionally discourage your daughters ....
I tell my HS age daughter that when she is ready to have children, we will do everything to help. Most successful families use a combination of financial and in-person help from grandparents. Women who only rely on themselves either suffer setbacks in their career or marriage or their childrearing, especially if children are not perfectly healthy since infancy. We will do our best to support her. We are not rich, middle class yet not upper middle. However, my husband and I are both good with babies. If she has fire in her belly to pursue a career, we will support her

College tuition, on the other hand? Scholarships and loans. No one supported me, and it set me.back all right.
Anonymous
Post 04/14/2019 22:52     Subject: Do you actively or unintentionally discourage your daughters ....
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I discourage both my kids (boy and girl) from going to law school. Because I’m a lawyer and don’t think anyone should go to law school!


+1


Same

Wow, my DD is going to law school this fall, seems like consensus is that’s a bad idea if she wants a family (her bf is in law school too). Should I be worried? I don’t know what’s involved, I’m in the construction field.


No, it's fine. You can do a ton with a law degree, including many jobs that are family friendly. It's only really a bad idea if you have the (somewhat outdated pre 2008 downturn) idea that a law degree is a fast track to tons of money. The jobs where it is tons if money like BIGLAW yeah, are not great for work life balance. But not every attorney needs to chase that partnership.
Anonymous
Post 04/14/2019 22:35     Subject: Do you actively or unintentionally discourage your daughters ....
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I discourage both my kids (boy and girl) from going to law school. Because I’m a lawyer and don’t think anyone should go to law school!


+1


Same

Wow, my DD is going to law school this fall, seems like consensus is that’s a bad idea if she wants a family (her bf is in law school too). Should I be worried? I don’t know what’s involved, I’m in the construction field.