Anonymous
Post 04/05/2019 09:44     Subject: My kid got rejected with 99th percentile Cogat
Anonymous wrote:The part about not being a people pleaser and his inability to complete work.


The smartest kid I ever came into contact with in the public school system went to the ED center because of horrible behavioral problems. Was reading and understanding any book you put in front of him in *kindergarten*. Could do complicated math in his head. These two qualities have nothing to do with intellect. Some kids don't have the personality to be trained monkeys dutifully cranking out worksheets.
Anonymous
Post 04/05/2019 09:42     Subject: My kid got rejected with 99th percentile Cogat
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:It’s not a gifted program anymore.

Teacher remarks should have the most weight. Is the child advanced? Hard working? Curious? Bright? That is the child for AAP.


But test scores are objective. Teachers can be great or terrible; burnt out, disinterested, brand new, like or dislike a certain kind of kid, etc etc.


If a parent disagrees with the teacher’s assessment of their child they may appeal with more evidence.


Sure they can, but do you think that is fair? Two teachers can have two different views of the same child. One teacher might provide opportunities for children to produce interesting work, another teacher might rely on worksheets. It is so, so subjective.
Anonymous
Post 04/05/2019 09:41     Subject: My kid got rejected with 99th percentile Cogat
The part about not being a people pleaser and his inability to complete work.
Anonymous
Post 04/05/2019 09:39     Subject: My kid got rejected with 99th percentile Cogat
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:It’s not a gifted program anymore.

Teacher remarks should have the most weight. Is the child advanced? Hard working? Curious? Bright? That is the child for AAP.


That's ridiculous, though. My child's 2nd grade teacher didn't like him because he's not a people pleaser and wasn't compliant with the mounds of busy work they were given, like coloring sheets, word searches, and the like. DS was in the outlier math, reading, and word study groups (like, top 2-3 kids in the grade), with his teachers in those glowing about how advanced and brilliant he is. DS was reading long chapter books in 1st grade. DS also had all test scores above 140. The 2nd grade teacher gave a GBRS of 11, with only a 1 in Motivation to Succeed. Most of the comments were pretty lame, and he was dinged for preferring to engage with adults rather than other kids and for being disorganized. Yes, the teacher put negative comments in the GBRS, even though all comments are supposed to be positive. He still was admitted to AAP.

In AAP, he's the kid winning all of the contests, acing all of the tests, and to some extent making the other AAP kids in his class feel dumb. My other AAP child, who is a bright, hardworking, non-gifted people-pleaser, got a 16 GBRS. The GBRS is much more reflective of the teacher's biases than the kid's actual ability.



Not that he couldn’t do well in AAP but he didn’t sound like a good candidate from what you’ve written about his behavior. On the other hand he does seem advanced. Obviously he got in, so what exactly are you claiming? That he wouldn’t have?


What about his behavior that pp wrote made you think he wasn't bright enough to do well in AAP?
Anonymous
Post 04/05/2019 09:38     Subject: Re:My kid got rejected with 99th percentile Cogat
Anonymous wrote:I think the test scores should be used for the pool selection and the teachers' observations/recommendations of the students should play a crucial part in the final selection round. I have often heard from my older child's AAP teachers that a lot of the kids in the AAP program should not belong there and these kids end up at bottom of their classes. I don't know if all the prepping helps to boost up the scores slightly or not but I would think there is some truth to it. If my children did not get into the AAP, I would have been fine with the decision. There are more to success beyond just academic alone. Be happy for their strong self confidence, good ethics and well grounded circles of friends.


We have a poor performing base school and in third grade, all of my child's "circle" went to the AAP center. He was the only child in his base school's third grade class who was reading above grade level. He had to leave the classroom to meet with the two other children *in the whole grade* who were in his reading group. The next year, he and both those kids got into the center. This left zero above grade level readers at the base school. Some general ed schools are terrible for bright kids, even kids who would be fine in general ed at other schools with a lot of other similar kids.
Anonymous
Post 04/05/2019 09:37     Subject: My kid got rejected with 99th percentile Cogat
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:It’s not a gifted program anymore.

Teacher remarks should have the most weight. Is the child advanced? Hard working? Curious? Bright? That is the child for AAP.


That's ridiculous, though. My child's 2nd grade teacher didn't like him because he's not a people pleaser and wasn't compliant with the mounds of busy work they were given, like coloring sheets, word searches, and the like. DS was in the outlier math, reading, and word study groups (like, top 2-3 kids in the grade), with his teachers in those glowing about how advanced and brilliant he is. DS was reading long chapter books in 1st grade. DS also had all test scores above 140. The 2nd grade teacher gave a GBRS of 11, with only a 1 in Motivation to Succeed. Most of the comments were pretty lame, and he was dinged for preferring to engage with adults rather than other kids and for being disorganized. Yes, the teacher put negative comments in the GBRS, even though all comments are supposed to be positive. He still was admitted to AAP.

In AAP, he's the kid winning all of the contests, acing all of the tests, and to some extent making the other AAP kids in his class feel dumb. My other AAP child, who is a bright, hardworking, non-gifted people-pleaser, got a 16 GBRS. The GBRS is much more reflective of the teacher's biases than the kid's actual ability.


My kid got a 2 in Motivation to Succeed, which I think was accurate, because he was one of those "bored, unengaged, disruptive gifted" kids. He's better now, in AAP. Preferring to engage with adults isn't a ding, it can be an indication of giftedness, as can disorganization. The committee understood what the GBRS was signalling.

The Motivation to Succeed metric is interesting to me, since high scoring kids may belong in AAP but may also do just fine in gen Ed, while low scoring kids may belong in AAP and may even need it more.
Anonymous
Post 04/05/2019 09:37     Subject: My kid got rejected with 99th percentile Cogat
The best information I received from our school's AART- Even if you are in pool, always submit a parental referral. This way, they have every information from all angles. The school, the teacher, the AART, the committee, you. There are a few forms to submit, a few work samples and writing that shows critical thinking. This also prevents the anxiousness of waiting for the scores to come and the short turnaround time you have to get your package ready for the parental referral if you're on the edge or not in pool.

If you prepare for a flood and it doesn't come, you're fully covered. I completed parental referral with all three kids before they got their scores back. Two were in pool. One slightly off. No problems. We are partly asian, but I don't think that matters. Even if you don't get in, once you get to 7th grade, it doesn't really matter. It's only the math that is the big accelerator in my opinion. Ceasars english is great in concept but a crazy way to teach because the young minds have no context in vocabulary or this type of reading.
Anonymous
Post 04/05/2019 09:36     Subject: My kid got rejected with 99th percentile Cogat
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:It’s not a gifted program anymore.

Teacher remarks should have the most weight. Is the child advanced? Hard working? Curious? Bright? That is the child for AAP.


That's ridiculous, though. My child's 2nd grade teacher didn't like him because he's not a people pleaser and wasn't compliant with the mounds of busy work they were given, like coloring sheets, word searches, and the like. DS was in the outlier math, reading, and word study groups (like, top 2-3 kids in the grade), with his teachers in those glowing about how advanced and brilliant he is. DS was reading long chapter books in 1st grade. DS also had all test scores above 140. The 2nd grade teacher gave a GBRS of 11, with only a 1 in Motivation to Succeed. Most of the comments were pretty lame, and he was dinged for preferring to engage with adults rather than other kids and for being disorganized. Yes, the teacher put negative comments in the GBRS, even though all comments are supposed to be positive. He still was admitted to AAP.

In AAP, he's the kid winning all of the contests, acing all of the tests, and to some extent making the other AAP kids in his class feel dumb. My other AAP child, who is a bright, hardworking, non-gifted people-pleaser, got a 16 GBRS. The GBRS is much more reflective of the teacher's biases than the kid's actual ability.



Not that he couldn’t do well in AAP but he didn’t sound like a good candidate from what you’ve written about his behavior. On the other hand he does seem advanced. Obviously he got in, so what exactly are you claiming? That he wouldn’t have?
Anonymous
Post 04/05/2019 09:29     Subject: My kid got rejected with 99th percentile Cogat
Anonymous wrote:It’s not a gifted program anymore.

Teacher remarks should have the most weight. Is the child advanced? Hard working? Curious? Bright? That is the child for AAP.


That's ridiculous, though. My child's 2nd grade teacher didn't like him because he's not a people pleaser and wasn't compliant with the mounds of busy work they were given, like coloring sheets, word searches, and the like. DS was in the outlier math, reading, and word study groups (like, top 2-3 kids in the grade), with his teachers in those glowing about how advanced and brilliant he is. DS was reading long chapter books in 1st grade. DS also had all test scores above 140. The 2nd grade teacher gave a GBRS of 11, with only a 1 in Motivation to Succeed. Most of the comments were pretty lame, and he was dinged for preferring to engage with adults rather than other kids and for being disorganized. Yes, the teacher put negative comments in the GBRS, even though all comments are supposed to be positive. He still was admitted to AAP.

In AAP, he's the kid winning all of the contests, acing all of the tests, and to some extent making the other AAP kids in his class feel dumb. My other AAP child, who is a bright, hardworking, non-gifted people-pleaser, got a 16 GBRS. The GBRS is much more reflective of the teacher's biases than the kid's actual ability.
Anonymous
Post 04/05/2019 09:23     Subject: Re:My kid got rejected with 99th percentile Cogat
I think the test scores should be used for the pool selection and the teachers' observations/recommendations of the students should play a crucial part in the final selection round. I have often heard from my older child's AAP teachers that a lot of the kids in the AAP program should not belong there and these kids end up at bottom of their classes. I don't know if all the prepping helps to boost up the scores slightly or not but I would think there is some truth to it. If my children did not get into the AAP, I would have been fine with the decision. There are more to success beyond just academic alone. Be happy for their strong self confidence, good ethics and well grounded circles of friends.
Anonymous
Post 04/05/2019 09:11     Subject: My kid got rejected with 99th percentile Cogat
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:

How did you appeal? with WISC scores and samples? If samples also, how many did you provide? Also what was your child's WISC score? Thanks


The appeal was just with a letter and 5 work samples. We didn't do a WISC. I doubt the new materials were necessarily that persuasive, but rather the appeals committee thought that my child shouldn't have been rejected in the first place. The appeals committee will not be the same people who rejected your child the first time around, and they will look at the entire file, old stuff+ new stuff.


I think in the appeal they also look at whether other kids were admitted with similar scores
Anonymous
Post 04/05/2019 09:10     Subject: My kid got rejected with 99th percentile Cogat
Anonymous wrote:

How did you appeal? with WISC scores and samples? If samples also, how many did you provide? Also what was your child's WISC score? Thanks


The appeal was just with a letter and 5 work samples. We didn't do a WISC. I doubt the new materials were necessarily that persuasive, but rather the appeals committee thought that my child shouldn't have been rejected in the first place. The appeals committee will not be the same people who rejected your child the first time around, and they will look at the entire file, old stuff+ new stuff.
Anonymous
Post 04/05/2019 09:09     Subject: My kid got rejected with 99th percentile Cogat
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:It’s not a gifted program anymore.

Teacher remarks should have the most weight. Is the child advanced? Hard working? Curious? Bright? That is the child for AAP.


From someone who had one kid with a 15 gbrs and one with a 16: the gbrs should carry a lot of weight but I could definitely see how kids could fall through the cracks and not get the gbrs deserved. I previously taught and know that during the local committee meetings, we boosted gbrs as high as legitimately possible for kids with lower scores who truly stood out as gifted. So if a kid with a 120 cogat was considered, wed give a very high gbrs bc he belonged in aap.


Meanwhile, my kid is totally bored out of his mind, is tired of raising his hand and not being called on, and received 2Cs and 2Fs. The teacher's comments were pretty lame, using the same examples over and over again. I have a definite sense that my son's teacher does not like him. I am glad I saw the writing on the wall and took the time to do the parent referral and provide examples of the out of the box stuff he likes to do at home that here is no outlet for at school. My kid is not a people pleaser and I think that is what the GBRS often speaks to.
Anonymous
Post 04/05/2019 09:04     Subject: Re:My kid got rejected with 99th percentile Cogat
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Genuinely curious who is on this committee?


Files are screened by AARTs from all over the county. Every file has at least 2 readers.


So one AART votes yes or no, and then a second one confirms that?

If the work samples are the most important part of the file, they should let people know and make them mandatory. Since the test scores are required and everything else is optional, reasonable parents conclude that test scores, reading level, report cards are the information the decision is based on.


I don't understand the reasoning. Why would you not think they take everything submitted into account? Why else would they invite you to submit something more?

If it were an application for graduate school, or for a job that involved writing, and you were told you could submit a writing sample (even if not mandatory), why wouldn't you?
Anonymous
Post 04/05/2019 09:00     Subject: My kid got rejected with 99th percentile Cogat
Anonymous wrote:It’s not a gifted program anymore.

Teacher remarks should have the most weight. Is the child advanced? Hard working? Curious? Bright? That is the child for AAP.


From someone who had one kid with a 15 gbrs and one with a 16: the gbrs should carry a lot of weight but I could definitely see how kids could fall through the cracks and not get the gbrs deserved. I previously taught and know that during the local committee meetings, we boosted gbrs as high as legitimately possible for kids with lower scores who truly stood out as gifted. So if a kid with a 120 cogat was considered, wed give a very high gbrs bc he belonged in aap.