Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The way some folks are posting, you'd have us think that the whole Harvard undergraduate student body is comprised of kids from these so-called "gunner" families and that's the only way to get in.

What percentage of students actually fall under this development/wealth/shady sidedoor deal category? Obviously, in your minds, it should be zero percent. But are there really that many of them on campus?

I think that it is likely a surprisingly high percentage of the full pay admissions crowd.

I was a financial aid kid at an Ivy. But on my freshman floor, I can think of 5 kids that were legacies, including my roommate who was a terrible student (even by lenient Ivy grading standards). She wouldn't have gotten in on her own merits. People always had stories of friends whose parents paid huge donations to their private high schools to get great recommendation letters or special awards out of the school which had a "special connection" to an admissions officer at elite schools. And this was 25 years ago. It's much more competitive now.

Anonymous wrote:The way some folks are posting, you'd have us think that the whole Harvard undergraduate student body is comprised of kids from these so-called "gunner" families and that's the only way to get in.

What percentage of students actually fall under this development/wealth/shady sidedoor deal category? Obviously, in your minds, it should be zero percent. But are there really that many of them on campus?

I think that it is likely a surprisingly high percentage of the full pay admissions crowd.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Harvard fencing coach's house sells for almost twice its assessed value. Town assessor notes: "makes no sense." It was bought by a wealthy Maryland businessman whose kid was subsequently accepted to Harvard and joined the fencing team.

https://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/2019/04/04/bought-fencing-coach-house-then-his-son-got-into-harvard/EIWVMIxUFQ1XweY1xfB1GK/story.html

I love so much about this story. The house is in my home town of Needham and the coach is a neighbor of my parents who is kind of an a$$. I also think the whole fencing/St. Albans connection makes me happy that DD chose GDS over NCS for high school.

Hahaha, now we know how that special GDS-->>Harvard connection works...

Anonymous wrote:Harvard fencing coach's house sells for almost twice its assessed value. Town assessor notes: "makes no sense." It was bought by a wealthy Maryland businessman whose kid was subsequently accepted to Harvard and joined the fencing team.

https://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/2019/04/04/bought-fencing-coach-house-then-his-son-got-into-harvard/EIWVMIxUFQ1XweY1xfB1GK/story.html

This is crazy

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:lol.. buyer said it was an "investment" but then sold it at a loss of over $300K.

I think this type of thing (side door) has been going on for decades and is a lot bigger than anyone realizes.

Yes, agreed. I think a lot of these degrees are going to start losing their value. It's not really a marker of anything when they can just be bought as commodities.

Wishful thinking of a parent whose kid couldn’t get in.

You wish.

Excellent article by a GMU Econ professor:

http://pge.libercus.net//.pf/showstory/201904020029/3

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Who is the hypocrite? You or the people who believe the ends justify the means?

What you are describing are average middle class methods. The parents you are describing above are gunners. Gunners know no bounds. Why do you think these families have intergenerational wealth... because they come from a line of gunners. Most people that obtain and hold onto a ton of cash are gunners. Robber barons, Opioid manufacturers, internet apps.. does not matter what time in history.

Gunners or criminals?

I'll take my ethics and send my kids to a "lesser" school, thank you very much.

Wasn't it George Bernard Shaw who ridiculed "middle-class morality?" The rich didn't need it, e.g. Prof. Henry Higgins, and the poor couldn't afford it, e.g., Alfred Doolittle.

That's me. Although our HHI is about $1 million per year. Alas, we are "new money" by DCUM standards, which I am also fine with.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Who is the hypocrite? You or the people who believe the ends justify the means?

What you are describing are average middle class methods. The parents you are describing above are gunners. Gunners know no bounds. Why do you think these families have intergenerational wealth... because they come from a line of gunners. Most people that obtain and hold onto a ton of cash are gunners. Robber barons, Opioid manufacturers, internet apps.. does not matter what time in history.

Gunners or criminals?

I'll take my ethics and send my kids to a "lesser" school, thank you very much.

Wasn't it George Bernard Shaw who ridiculed "middle-class morality?" The rich didn't need it, e.g. Prof. Henry Higgins, and the poor couldn't afford it, e.g., Alfred Doolittle.

Anonymous wrote:Who is the hypocrite? You or the people who believe the ends justify the means?

What you are describing are average middle class methods. The parents you are describing above are gunners. Gunners know no bounds. Why do you think these families have intergenerational wealth... because they come from a line of gunners. Most people that obtain and hold onto a ton of cash are gunners. Robber barons, Opioid manufacturers, internet apps.. does not matter what time in history.

Gunners or criminals?

I'll take my ethics and send my kids to a "lesser" school, thank you very much.

The way some folks are posting, you'd have us think that the whole Harvard undergraduate student body is comprised of kids from these so-called "gunner" families and that's the only way to get in.

What percentage of students actually fall under this development/wealth/shady sidedoor deal category? Obviously, in your minds, it should be zero percent. But are there really that many of them on campus?

Who is the hypocrite? You or the people who believe the ends justify the means?

What you are describing are average middle class methods. The parents you are describing above are gunners. Gunners know no bounds. Why do you think these families have intergenerational wealth... because they come from a line of gunners. Most people that obtain and hold onto a ton of cash are gunners. Robber barons, Opioid manufacturers, internet apps.. does not matter what time in history.

Remember that book about 'queenbee moms and kingpin dads'? What's fascinating about this scandal and the article that Caitlin Flanagan wrote in The Atlantic yesterday are that the kids are almost completely absent from the picture.

I just feel like a sucker. I thought the way to 'prep' my kid for the gifted test was to take them to museums and children's theater, kids concerts. Somebody else just bought the test online and fed it to their kids. I was so clueless!

And I stupidly thought we were supposed to take the kids to visit campuses and find which one 'fit' our kids. I thought they were supposed be involved in deciding what university to attend. Meanwhile, the kingpin dad did a backdoor deal and probably didn't even consider what the kid wanted, which university 'fit'.

I also stupidly thought that you were supposed to do Suzuki violin and piano with your kids without yelling and comparing them to other kids, and the object wasn't to make them hate music. Then I read Amy Tan's book on tiger parenting where she yelled so much during Suzuki that her kid was gnawing on the piano out of frustration. But so what! She won the piano competition! I was so clueless . . .

Lots of hypocrites out there.

I don't think this is about his sons. This is about money. It looks like a mafia movie, with corruption, money laundering, taxes evasion, etc. Sorry, I don't think it will work well in U.S. FBI in on the case, right?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Anyone else think that squash teams and all other non-conventional teams should probably be evaluated. Seems like these low-profile sports teams are a backdoor to school admission. Not saying that this is the case for all, but they tend to fly under the radar.

No, they are needed for Title IX.

And fencing is one of the oldest sports, and is an Olympic sport, so that doesn't really apply here. Even at a football school like ND, the fencing team has a better winning record than the football team. Doesn't bring in money, but is hardly considered non-conventional. Frankly, the money sports are less consistent with an academic institution's purpose than the Olympic sports (at least before those allowed pros). But yeah, squash is a joke.

If by "conventional teams" you mean football and basketball, those are the programs that keep athletic departments afloat.