Anonymous
04/01/2019 07:44
Subject: Why are so many UMC average students "Learning Disabled"?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:
I am a research scientist and have a child who is "gifted and learning disabled".
Had he been born in my generation, he would just have been labeled quirky, slow, lazy, even stupid. He would have been teased and bullied and doors would have closed for him before middle school, despite his high IQ and potential to contribute to the world.
Now, thanks to progress in the field of mental health and the breakdown of societal taboos, he is known to have: moderate-to-severe ADHD, very low processing speed, and a severe impairment in his left-side motor skills (which reflect an impairment in his right hemisphere).
There are all related disorders.
I am SO GRATEFUL that he has accommodation at school and that teachers and students are trained to be understanding and not dismissive!!!
In return, he is a mellow, courteous person, and if he is given the chance, he's got the intellect to be a researcher/academic just like his parents.
Ok. But doesn't every person who isn't functioning at a high level have something going on in their brain that makes them incapable of doing so?
Research scientist again - no.
This is what neuropsychological testing does: it susses out whether you are functioning in approximately the same way for all aspects of cognitive and processing skills. If you are, then nothing is wrong with you, and you are functioning at your potential. If there is a statistically significant discrepancy between one or other of your subscores, then that's a red flag for a learning disability that is holding you back. And for many such disabilities, there's not much that can be done that has been proven to work. For some, there is, and that's where school services and accommodations come in.
Learning disabilities have nothing to do with how smart you are (and then there's the tricky question of how you define intelligence). Learning disabilities and mental health disorders deserve to be treated just as seriously as physical illness and physical conditions, do you know why? Because they ARE physical conditions! Located in the brain, that's all. They are a reflection of brain trauma, or neuronal connectors gone awry, or neurotransmitter imbalance, etc... and it's only recently that we've recognized "mental issues" to be brain dysfunctions just like liver dysfunction or any other organ dysfunction.
Anonymous
04/01/2019 07:37
Subject: Why are so many UMC average students "Learning Disabled"?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:. Please provide a link that backs your assertion.Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:You can have an LD and still be stupid, a bad student, or a C student. You can have ADHD and still get Cs and still be a below average student.
What is this fixation with calling children stupid?
I’m just using the words used by posters on this thread. A pp before my original post said something like, “if we didn’t find out dd was dyslexic people would just assume she were stupid.”
I don’t like the word, stupid, for kids. But a few posters have used it to describe kids who struggle in school and don’t have a diagnosis. That’s terrible! My original post was meant to point out that just because your kid has a diagnosis it doesn’t magically make them no longer struggle in school. It’s not some excuse. An average student is an average student with or without a diagnosis.
Most kids with LDd are still below average students. That’s just a fact.
By definition 50% kids are below average. Most kids with LDs are struggling students. I know there is a popular narrative among UMC parents that says kids with LDs are actually bright kids who are only average because of an LD, but that only exists in the UMC world. More than half of kids with LDs are struggling at the bottom of the class.
I am the OP and as I stated previously my daughter is a struggling student, we will most likely have her tested, and I'm guessing that she will walk away with a label. But I'm pragmatic enough to realize that what this actually means that she is just not as bright as others - at least in some areas.
Something that’s taken off in recent years is this wonderful idea that we should celebrate neurodiversity. And it is exactly how you describe. Your child has strengths and weaknesses.
Yes, even the C student who doesn’t have a diagnosis has strengths and weaknesses.
My child has dyslexia/dysgraphia. She has strengths and weaknesses. I love to think about her particular intelligence profile is a gift. But reality is she has deficits. ALL KIDS WITH LDS DO. It’s not so much that she thinks differently (neurodiversity). She does. But she also has a brain defect. And that is never going to go away.
We are happy that she is improving upon her weaknesses and her strengths shine, but I don’t pretend she’s any different from an average student when she performs in an average way.
There will always be a bell curve. Most kids with LDs fall somewhere in the middle because they get supports. Without them they would be at the tail end. Im not sure why this is being debated. That is how you get an LD diagnosis. Sure kids can have strengths that fall far above that. But the deficits were or still are painfully and obviously low.
The reason is because they have found that for some reason dyslexic people outperform in business. So for some reason, the way their brain is made is not a "brain defect", it actually for many is the opposite.
Sure they don't know why yet.
Also, the education system is not a culling system. The more educated people we have in the world the better, so we are not figuring out how to teach a dyslexic person for their benefit, we are learning for the benefit of society.
Also, there was a study done that when they blurred text for non-dyslexic kids they had to slow their reading pace and their comprehension scores improved.
Anonymous
04/01/2019 07:32
Subject: Why are so many UMC average students "Learning Disabled"?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:. Please provide a link that backs your assertion.Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:You can have an LD and still be stupid, a bad student, or a C student. You can have ADHD and still get Cs and still be a below average student.
What is this fixation with calling children stupid?
I’m just using the words used by posters on this thread. A pp before my original post said something like, “if we didn’t find out dd was dyslexic people would just assume she were stupid.”
I don’t like the word, stupid, for kids. But a few posters have used it to describe kids who struggle in school and don’t have a diagnosis. That’s terrible! My original post was meant to point out that just because your kid has a diagnosis it doesn’t magically make them no longer struggle in school. It’s not some excuse. An average student is an average student with or without a diagnosis.
Most kids with LDd are still below average students. That’s just a fact.
By definition 50% kids are below average. Most kids with LDs are struggling students. I know there is a popular narrative among UMC parents that says kids with LDs are actually bright kids who are only average because of an LD, but that only exists in the UMC world. More than half of kids with LDs are struggling at the bottom of the class.
I am the OP and as I stated previously my daughter is a struggling student, we will most likely have her tested, and I'm guessing that she will walk away with a label. But I'm pragmatic enough to realize that what this actually means that she is just not as bright as others - at least in some areas.
Something that’s taken off in recent years is this wonderful idea that we should celebrate neurodiversity. And it is exactly how you describe. Your child has strengths and weaknesses.
Yes, even the C student who doesn’t have a diagnosis has strengths and weaknesses.
My child has dyslexia/dysgraphia. She has strengths and weaknesses. I love to think about her particular intelligence profile is a gift. But reality is she has deficits. ALL KIDS WITH LDS DO. It’s not so much that she thinks differently (neurodiversity). She does. But she also has a brain defect. And that is never going to go away.
We are happy that she is improving upon her weaknesses and her strengths shine, but I don’t pretend she’s any different from an average student when she performs in an average way.
There will always be a bell curve. Most kids with LDs fall somewhere in the middle because they get supports. Without them they would be at the tail end. Im not sure why this is being debated. That is how you get an LD diagnosis. Sure kids can have strengths that fall far above that. But the deficits were or still are painfully and obviously low.
Anonymous
04/01/2019 07:14
Subject: Re:Why are so many UMC average students "Learning Disabled"?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:It cost $3000 to have a qualified doctor do the testing for accommodations and you have to do it every 3 years to get accommodations.
This. If you are "poor" you can't afford to get accommodations, even if your child needs them.
Yes. and if you let the school do the testing often it is enough to get and IEP for 504 but not enough to get accommodations for SATs.
Often schools will not test a B student even if they are struggling or working 10x harder than most to get that B, they expect a kid to just let themself fail and then they will do the testing.
The problem is not the very few cheaters, the problem is the kids that need accommodations but are not getting the.
Anonymous
04/01/2019 06:50
Subject: Why are so many UMC average students "Learning Disabled"?
noAnonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:
I am a research scientist and have a child who is "gifted and learning disabled".
Had he been born in my generation, he would just have been labeled quirky, slow, lazy, even stupid. He would have been teased and bullied and doors would have closed for him before middle school, despite his high IQ and potential to contribute to the world.
Now, thanks to progress in the field of mental health and the breakdown of societal taboos, he is known to have: moderate-to-severe ADHD, very low processing speed, and a severe impairment in his left-side motor skills (which reflect an impairment in his right hemisphere).
There are all related disorders.
I am SO GRATEFUL that he has accommodation at school and that teachers and students are trained to be understanding and not dismissive!!!
In return, he is a mellow, courteous person, and if he is given the chance, he's got the intellect to be a researcher/academic just like his parents.
Ok. But doesn't every person who isn't functioning at a high level have something going on in their brain that makes them incapable of doing so?
Anonymous
04/01/2019 06:49
Subject: Re:Why are so many UMC average students "Learning Disabled"?
No, not all C students have disabilities, no, no.Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:It cost $3000 to have a qualified doctor do the testing for accommodations and you have to do it every 3 years to get accommodations.
This. If you are "poor" you can't afford to get accommodations, even if your child needs them.
Technically speaking doesn't every C student need accommodations to get better grades? Why are some C students deemed worthy of needing accommodations but not others? Are we now at a point where we believe C students should no longer exist? Should we simply remove the word average from the dictionary?
Anonymous
04/01/2019 02:21
Subject: Why are so many UMC average students "Learning Disabled"?
Anonymous wrote:It seems to be "the thing" now, that when you see an UMC kid who is a mediocre student, they will almost invariably have a diagnosis of having a learning disability or ADHD. Is there no such thing as a C student any more? Whatever happened to the idea that some kids just aren't great at school? Is that notion only acceptable for working class kids but not affluent kids?
Because our adopted son was subjected to drugs in the womb, and we’re going to spend every damn penny it takes to ensure that he learns strategies to cope with his learning differences so he can have a happy and productive life.
Anonymous
04/01/2019 02:06
Subject: Why are so many UMC average students "Learning Disabled"?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:
I am a research scientist and have a child who is "gifted and learning disabled".
Had he been born in my generation, he would just have been labeled quirky, slow, lazy, even stupid. He would have been teased and bullied and doors would have closed for him before middle school, despite his high IQ and potential to contribute to the world.
Now, thanks to progress in the field of mental health and the breakdown of societal taboos, he is known to have: moderate-to-severe ADHD, very low processing speed, and a severe impairment in his left-side motor skills (which reflect an impairment in his right hemisphere).
There are all related disorders.
I am SO GRATEFUL that he has accommodation at school and that teachers and students are trained to be understanding and not dismissive!!!
In return, he is a mellow, courteous person, and if he is given the chance, he's got the intellect to be a researcher/academic just like his parents.
Ok. But doesn't every person who isn't functioning at a high level have something going on in their brain that makes them incapable of doing so?
Different pp- it depends on how you define intellect. The WISC is composed of reasoning and performance scores. I define IQ as heavier on reasoning and lighter on performance-- so, performance is important and shouldn't be dismissed, but to be *smart* the reasoning scores are essential--performance can be accommodated, reasoning cannot.
A C student with gifted reasoning abilities and a learning disability may be perfectly capable of understanding higher order math, literature, science, etc. with accommodation. A C student with average reasoning abilities will not achieve at those levels no matter the accommodation because they won't be able to comprehend the material. These two hypothetical "C students" are not alike- their abilities are not the same.
Anonymous
04/01/2019 01:55
Subject: Why are so many UMC average students "Learning Disabled"?
Anonymous wrote:
I am a research scientist and have a child who is "gifted and learning disabled".
Had he been born in my generation, he would just have been labeled quirky, slow, lazy, even stupid. He would have been teased and bullied and doors would have closed for him before middle school, despite his high IQ and potential to contribute to the world.
Now, thanks to progress in the field of mental health and the breakdown of societal taboos, he is known to have: moderate-to-severe ADHD, very low processing speed, and a severe impairment in his left-side motor skills (which reflect an impairment in his right hemisphere).
There are all related disorders.
I am SO GRATEFUL that he has accommodation at school and that teachers and students are trained to be understanding and not dismissive!!!
In return, he is a mellow, courteous person, and if he is given the chance, he's got the intellect to be a researcher/academic just like his parents.
Ok. But doesn't every person who isn't functioning at a high level have something going on in their brain that makes them incapable of doing so?
Anonymous
03/31/2019 18:05
Subject: Why are so many UMC average students "Learning Disabled"?
I am a research scientist and have a child who is "gifted and learning disabled".
Had he been born in my generation, he would just have been labeled quirky, slow, lazy, even stupid. He would have been teased and bullied and doors would have closed for him before middle school, despite his high IQ and potential to contribute to the world.
Now, thanks to progress in the field of mental health and the breakdown of societal taboos, he is known to have: moderate-to-severe ADHD, very low processing speed, and a severe impairment in his left-side motor skills (which reflect an impairment in his right hemisphere).
There are all related disorders.
I am SO GRATEFUL that he has accommodation at school and that teachers and students are trained to be understanding and not dismissive!!!
In return, he is a mellow, courteous person, and if he is given the chance, he's got the intellect to be a researcher/academic just like his parents.
Anonymous
03/31/2019 17:57
Subject: Re:Why are so many UMC average students "Learning Disabled"?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:It cost $3000 to have a qualified doctor do the testing for accommodations and you have to do it every 3 years to get accommodations.
This. If you are "poor" you can't afford to get accommodations, even if your child needs them.
Technically speaking doesn't every C student need accommodations to get better grades? Why are some C students deemed worthy of needing accommodations but not others? Are we now at a point where we believe C students should no longer exist? Should we simply remove the word average from the dictionary?
Well stated. I don’t get how some parents think THEIR C student is “not having their needs met” and needs accommodations while other people’s C students are just mediocre.
Anonymous
03/31/2019 17:41
Subject: Why are so many UMC average students "Learning Disabled"?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:. Please provide a link that backs your assertion.Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:You can have an LD and still be stupid, a bad student, or a C student. You can have ADHD and still get Cs and still be a below average student.
What is this fixation with calling children stupid?
I’m just using the words used by posters on this thread. A pp before my original post said something like, “if we didn’t find out dd was dyslexic people would just assume she were stupid.”
I don’t like the word, stupid, for kids. But a few posters have used it to describe kids who struggle in school and don’t have a diagnosis. That’s terrible! My original post was meant to point out that just because your kid has a diagnosis it doesn’t magically make them no longer struggle in school. It’s not some excuse. An average student is an average student with or without a diagnosis.
Most kids with LDd are still below average students. That’s just a fact.
By definition 50% kids are below average. Most kids with LDs are struggling students. I know there is a popular narrative among UMC parents that says kids with LDs are actually bright kids who are only average because of an LD, but that only exists in the UMC world. More than half of kids with LDs are struggling at the bottom of the class.
Anonymous
03/31/2019 15:22
Subject: Why are so many UMC average students "Learning Disabled"?
. Please provide a link to support your assertation. When I google I find sites that basically say that people with LDs have the same spectrum of intelligence as people without LDs. Not smarter, but not dumber either.Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:. Please provide a link that backs your assertion.Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:You can have an LD and still be stupid, a bad student, or a C student. You can have ADHD and still get Cs and still be a below average student.
What is this fixation with calling children stupid?
I’m just using the words used by posters on this thread. A pp before my original post said something like, “if we didn’t find out dd was dyslexic people would just assume she were stupid.”
I don’t like the word, stupid, for kids. But a few posters have used it to describe kids who struggle in school and don’t have a diagnosis. That’s terrible! My original post was meant to point out that just because your kid has a diagnosis it doesn’t magically make them no longer struggle in school. It’s not some excuse. An average student is an average student with or without a diagnosis.
Most kids with LDd are still below average students. That’s just a fact.
By definition 50% kids are below average. Most kids with LDs are struggling students. I know there is a popular narrative among UMC parents that says kids with LDs are actually bright kids who are only average because of an LD, but that only exists in the UMC world. More than half of kids with LDs are struggling at the bottom of the class.
Anonymous
03/31/2019 15:09
Subject: Re:Why are so many UMC average students "Learning Disabled"?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:It cost $3000 to have a qualified doctor do the testing for accommodations and you have to do it every 3 years to get accommodations.
This. If you are "poor" you can't afford to get accommodations, even if your child needs them.
Technically speaking doesn't every C student need accommodations to get better grades? Why are some C students deemed worthy of needing accommodations but not others? Are we now at a point where we believe C students should no longer exist? Should we simply remove the word average from the dictionary?
Anonymous
03/31/2019 14:57
Subject: Re:Why are so many UMC average students "Learning Disabled"?
Anonymous wrote:It cost $3000 to have a qualified doctor do the testing for accommodations and you have to do it every 3 years to get accommodations.
This. If you are "poor" you can't afford to get accommodations, even if your child needs them.