Anonymous
04/03/2019 07:36
Subject: Re:What do you consider rich vs UMC?
Anonymous wrote:I didn't feel UC until I had around $10m plus a paid-for primary home in a HCOL area. Just one data point.
One out of touch data point. Feelers mean nothing.
Anonymous
04/03/2019 02:43
Subject: Re:What do you consider rich vs UMC?
I didn't feel UC until I had around $10m plus a paid-for primary home in a HCOL area. Just one data point.
Anonymous
04/03/2019 00:57
Subject: Re:What do you consider rich vs UMC?
Anonymous wrote:You cannot just look at asssets unless they are upwards of $10M. Where it matters less and less whether one works or not depending on age. I think a 30 yr old with $10M and no salary is in a precarious position. Whereas a 45+ family not so much and if they are 60, then they are golden.
Would someone with $5M at age 50 and no salary for either DH or DW and two kids be considered wealthy? They believe in FIRE. Have dividend income but that’s it.
What about 50 yr olds with two kids and HHI of $150k (and a SAHM) and NW of $4M.
IMO, it’s a combination of HHI and assets. Also without age information, no point.
I agree, most people look at just HHI or just Net worth. It has to be a combination unless net worth is huge. Btw neither of the two examples you gave would be wealthy/rich in my books due to low or no HHI.
Anonymous
04/02/2019 23:37
Subject: What do you consider rich vs UMC?
Anonymous wrote:I think it is more salary. One million a year salary or more.
It’s not what you make, it’s what you save. You can make $1 million a year and be insolvent, so net worth and not income is the best and most accurate measure of wealth.
Anonymous
04/02/2019 23:33
Subject: Re:What do you consider rich vs UMC?
You cannot just look at asssets unless they are upwards of $10M. Where it matters less and less whether one works or not depending on age. I think a 30 yr old with $10M and no salary is in a precarious position. Whereas a 45+ family not so much and if they are 60, then they are golden.
Would someone with $5M at age 50 and no salary for either DH or DW and two kids be considered wealthy? They believe in FIRE. Have dividend income but that’s it.
What about 50 yr olds with two kids and HHI of $150k (and a SAHM) and NW of $4M.
IMO, it’s a combination of HHI and assets. Also without age information, no point.
Would someone with $5M at age 50 and no salary for either DH or DW and two kids be considered wealthy? They believe in FIRE. Have dividend income but that’s it.
What about 50 yr olds with two kids and HHI of $150k (and a SAHM) and NW of $4M.
IMO, it’s a combination of HHI and assets. Also without age information, no point.
Anonymous
04/02/2019 13:30
Subject: What do you consider rich vs UMC?
On the college forum, Harvard is "impossible" to get in to because more than 95% of applicants are rejected. But on this forum, you count as "middle class" unless your income and/or assets exceeds 99%+ of the population. Every discussion about class mixes up consumption, income, and wealth. It just goes to show emotions, not rationality, dominates most people's understanding of money and finances.
Anonymous
04/02/2019 13:01
Subject: What do you consider rich vs UMC?
Anonymous wrote:Can we not with the salary?
We made 236k last year. Live in a 400k house and have 4 kids and are squarely middle class. In fact some people might consider us lower middle class.
There are several variable involved. How much you make. How many kids. Family money. Assets.
You are not middle class if you made nearly a quarter-million dollars last year. This is one of my least favorite things about the DMV - all the upper middle class folks bemoaning how "poor" they are. If you're lower middle-class with only payments on a $400K house and $236K in income, you're doing something wrong. If you're sending your four kids to sports/music lessons or saving for their education or your retirement, you're not lower middle class. Your argument basically seems to be that it doesn't matter how much money you make, it's how you spend it. People having spending habits that don't allow for savings or an increase to net worth doesn't make them lower middle-class, it makes them bad with money. You blow your money on kids, others blow it on cars that cost more than some houses and international travel. If you have the money to pay for those things, you're not lower middle-class.
Anonymous
04/02/2019 11:40
Subject: What do you consider rich vs UMC?
That’s a joke right? Because it absolutely is cheaper to buy food in Middle America than NYC or SF Or comparable cities. If you think it’s not you’re a fool. Groceries (normal things like bread, milk and so forth) are WAYYY more expensive in NYC. And yes I’ve lived in flyover and quite liked it so don’t jump down my throat.
Anonymous
04/01/2019 21:43
Subject: What do you consider rich vs UMC?
For DC, UC is 10 million assets.
Anonymous
04/01/2019 20:49
Subject: What do you consider rich vs UMC?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:For me, a net worth of at least 10 million is rich.
1-10 mil is UMC
This is ridiculous. If you have a net worth of greater than $600,000, you're in the top 20 percent of Americans. So obviously, if your net worth is more than $1 million, you cannot be described as middle class, no matter how you modify it.
This depends on age and income. If you retire at 65 or 67 with just social security and $1 million in assets (including house), you are not rich and could die penniless.
I agree with this and I have more like $100k in assets, because I'm young. Age matters when people are responsible for funding their own retirement and potentially nursing home care.
Anonymous
04/01/2019 20:44
Subject: What do you consider rich vs UMC?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:For me, a net worth of at least 10 million is rich.
1-10 mil is UMC
This is ridiculous. If you have a net worth of greater than $600,000, you're in the top 20 percent of Americans. So obviously, if your net worth is more than $1 million, you cannot be described as middle class, no matter how you modify it.
This depends on age and income. If you retire at 65 or 67 with just social security and $1 million in assets (including house), you are not rich and could die penniless.
Anonymous
04/01/2019 18:49
Subject: What do you consider rich vs UMC?
Anonymous
04/01/2019 18:38
Subject: What do you consider rich vs UMC?
I think it matters where you came from. I grew up in a small house and money was always tight. No air travel, no pricey camps, I had student loans, etc.
So I feel like I’m living the dream. Husband makes $250k, I SAH. We take several nice vacations a year and our kids will graduate debt free from college. I have a newer model Honda with no payments. I don’t worry about the grocery bill. We have a standard colonial in the burbs, could use some updating but if anything breaks it’s annoying but not financially stressful.
I feel rich. I know it’s not DCUM rich but from where I grew up it’s a life I only dreamed of. My kids are so fortunate and don’t really know it.
So I feel like I’m living the dream. Husband makes $250k, I SAH. We take several nice vacations a year and our kids will graduate debt free from college. I have a newer model Honda with no payments. I don’t worry about the grocery bill. We have a standard colonial in the burbs, could use some updating but if anything breaks it’s annoying but not financially stressful.
I feel rich. I know it’s not DCUM rich but from where I grew up it’s a life I only dreamed of. My kids are so fortunate and don’t really know it.
Anonymous
04/01/2019 18:25
Subject: What do you consider rich vs UMC?
Sales tax in TX is over 8 % and property tax is high. Some areas, like San Fransisco and Manhattan have exceedingly high cost of living. But this fantasy that everything else is cheaper in the rest of the country because DC California New York are more expensive for housing is bogus
Anonymous
04/01/2019 18:21
Subject: Re:What do you consider rich vs UMC?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I base it on quintiles and using HHI
Are you ready for a reality check DCUM
Poor 0-20% under 22.5k
LMC 20-40% 22.5k to 53.7k
MC 40-60% 53.7 to 95.8k
UMC is 60-80% 95.8 to 162.6
Rich is 80% 162.6+
A more DCUM version of this is below. Consider this a college graduate HHI chart
Poor 0-20% under 49.7k
LMC 20-40% 49.7k to 94k
MC 40-60% 94k to 146.8k
UMC is 60-80% 146.8k to 258.2k
Rich is 80% 258.2k+
Flawed, because rich is not the top 20% but maybe the top 1%.
I would argue, it is about comfort level:
Poor: do not know where the next meal is coming from. Income < 30K, assets ~0.
LMC/WC: one paycheck away from disaster. Income: 30-75K assets less than 5K
MC: Some safety net, but rarely eat out. 3-6 months from disaster. Most of the assets in the home. (Income :75K-150K), non-housing assets less than 50K
UMC: Money is tracked, but there is a strong safety net. College is funded; retirement is funded. (Income > 150K; assets less than 15 mil)
UC: No need to work. Money works for you, provides more income than jobs. Net Worth>15 mil (500K income from money)
In my life, I have been poor/homeless. I had no income, and $600 to my name. I had no safety net, and there were no jobs. I was an unfunded grad student during a recession.
I am now, by my definition, UMC; income ~ 180K; assets ~1.6 million.
DP.. also ^ those %iles are national and does not account for col. $100K in a rural area means you are living UMC. In DC, SF, NYC.. it's lower middle class.
Here we go with the fantasies and wet dreams about what is "rich" in middle America. Is it also cheaper for them to fly, buy food, send their kids to college, get healthcare, and buy a car?
In a way, yes it is more expensive in CA because their EPA rules are pretty strict. There is a gas tax there because of the EPA rules. Health insurance does vary by state. Some states have higher taxes when buying and owning a car (example - VA car tax). Sales tax and income taxes are high in CA and NY are high. So yes, living in those states is more expensive than living in TX for example where they have no income tax and low sales tax.