Anonymous wrote:It’s not like people walk into a consultant’s office and say, “Gee, DC has a 1600 SAT and 4.0 unweighted GPA. Do you have any suggestions on where he should apply?” The conversation is instead, “What kind of things can he do to make him stand out from the pack?” And contrary to what the posters here seem to think, the answer isn’t to just write a brilliant essay. In fact, the kids who have achieved to this level have worked hard and are proud of their accomplishments. They don’t really want someone to swoop in and write an essay for them.

Ok, so kid has perfect grades and test scores, and college counselor isn't going to swoop in and write an essay for them. What is CC going to do to make the kid "stand out from the pack?" By spring of junior year it's a little late to become involved in new extracurricular activities. Is the CC going to ensure that the kid gets elected to leadership positions or win awards?

Anonymous wrote:You are completely missing the point that applying to elite colleges requires strategic decisions. If you haven’t been through this process you wouldn’t understand.

Like what? A PP mentioned getting help in deciding what colleges would be best to apply ED for. Ok, I can see that. But as to the other example that was given such as getting advise as to whether it's better to take an easier class in hopes of an A instead of an AP where it's less likely. Guess what? Know one really knows the answer as to what the better strategy is, it's just a guess. So basically outside of getting extensive help on the essays, which is valuable but morally shady, the only other real service of value a college counselor can give is to advise which college to apply ED for? Is that worth thousands of dollars?

They think they have to do it because the other parents are doing it.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/amphtml/lifestyle/on-parenting/consumed-by-competition-parents-fuel-a-college-admissions-game-that-few-can-play/2019/03/13/4a594d5e-459e-11e9-8aab-95b8d80a1e4f_story.html

A few years ago, Ned Johnson and another college counselor were working with a client’s child, preparing the high school student for the college admissions process.

How much could we pay you, the parents asked Johnson, founder of D.C.-based PrepMatters, and the college counselor, to ensure you work with our child only, and no other students in the class at this high school?

The ones people pay big bucks for are often former college counselors at top schools or former admissions officers. They have a huge network of contacts and are well known. They are not new to the system. They take on a limited number of kids from each school and each cycle. There are article and blogs describing what they do that have popped up online since the scandal. The post had two articles within the last few days. If you have the money I can think of no reason not to do this for a top student. People talking about doing it the old fashion way or whatever they did in the 70s-90s should prepare for rejection and not be mad. The system of applying to a bunch of top colleges is arduous and the kids have a ton of other activities at the same time. They are seniors so team captains, newspaper editors, lead actors, debate... all the extra curriculars and possibly testing along with all AP classes and finals happen at the same time. If the kid does not get in early the entire Xmas break is spent on application. No top colleges have rolling acceptance. Kids start dropping schools left and right because there is just not enough time to do the massive essays. It is a process that needs to be paved or managed. The questions are not released until after school starts for most kids so you can’t front load over the summer either. In the 4 years I watched this unfold with my kids those who rushed through did not get in... sometimes anywhere. Each app must be completed like its your number one school. If you are from a disadvantaged background you get cut a break but for middle class kids coming from a top public or private school regardless of race sloppy or error ridden essays meant a rejection. There is so much paper it takes over at least one room of the house.

Are consultants like private high school counselors in that they make contact with schools, tip them on off what the student's top choice is, and otherwise potentially influence admissions decisions--a little like deal-making? (<--is this even correct? I somehow surmised this from various conversations and info sessions.)

It is a completely different process for the kid whose dream school is USC.

It’s not like people walk into a consultant’s office and say, “Gee, DC has a 1600 SAT and 4.0 unweighted GPA. Do you have any suggestions on where he should apply?” The conversation is instead, “What kind of things can he do to make him stand out from the pack?” And contrary to what the posters here seem to think, the answer isn’t to just write a brilliant essay. In fact, the kids who have achieved to this level have worked hard and are proud of their accomplishments. They don’t really want someone to swoop in and write an essay for them.

You are completely missing the point that applying to elite colleges requires strategic decisions. If you haven’t been through this process you wouldn’t understand.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There are significant benefits to using an outside consultant. They can give you an additional perspective/advice outside of the one provided by your school consultant. There is a lot of strategizing involved in applying to an elite school that they can help navigate. For example, if I don’t take the AP/honors level of this class that I’m not particularly strong in, will xyz college look at that more negatively than if I get a B? What order should I list my extracurriculars in? What kinds of things should I do over the summer before senior year that would add to the way I present myself? If I write my essay about x, does that make me sound entitled? Is y topic one that will put my admission officer to sleep or make him roll his eyes? Should I apply early to xyz when my second choice accepts half its class ED, or does that just mean I’ll probably get neither? What about ED 2 schools? There are a million small questions like this where getting advice from someone knowledgeable about the process can be extremely valuable even if they never once look at your essay, let alone try to rewrite it.

The OP's premise was that the colleges can spot this and it won't help the student any. And your last sentence is a bit ridiculous since of course the consultants look at the essays and have a hand in shaping it that is not the students own work.

What I think the colleges should do is what the IRS does. If you have someone prepare your taxes they have to give their name and phone number.
Colleges should say on the application form: certify that this work is your own -- or if you received any substantial help on this application give the name and phone number of whomever assisted you.

OP is just spouting a common Montra. He has never used or reviewed what a top college counselor tasks. The very best ones strategize using knowledge acquired by working with multiple kids from, multiple schools and multiple colleges. They generally know the competitive landscape and can steer your kids in to picking the ED app that is most likely to work. Also I suspect a ton of parents Have kids that applied to schools that did not require supplements to the common act. For a kid applying to top college there are about 20 pieces of writing. Many can not be reworked. And when they can the word count changes drastically. If your kid applied to basic schools you have no idea what I am talking about but the top level school. Private and assume public schools say they will help and that is actually not true. Sure the teachers proof read the common app essay and may look through an ED app or part of one but no one is going to help your kid with 20 essays or short paragraphs. Now there will be tons of parents who say let them do it on their own. Those are the kids applying to elite colleges that strike out. Kids with similar grades from the same school who did it themselves more often than not strike out. So now you say let the parents read it. That’s fine but you have the same unevenness. If your parents are journalist you have an advantage and same if they are a professor ... my
Require a ton of writing. What if mom and dad are trial lawyers? Applying to college is not nor has never been fair. And I don’t understand why people on this site constantly post something they can’t afford is stupid and worthless???

Ok, so from what you are saying the private college counselors are helping the kids write their essays. Yes, that's providing value. Yet, you have other parents insist that the counselors do very little of this and just steer kids into deciding that they are interested in colleges that are matches for them anyways. So which is it?

Anonymous wrote:Of course they look at the essays and provide feedback, but that is not the primary function served by ethical consultants. People also use consultants to help them find the right high schools. Do you think they are also there just to rewrite the kid’s essays?

This is the most ridiculous "benefit" of using a college consultant that is given. How hard is it to find colleges that you're a match for and that you would be interested in attending? I was able to determine this quite easily in 1990 even without the help of the internet.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There are significant benefits to using an outside consultant. They can give you an additional perspective/advice outside of the one provided by your school consultant. There is a lot of strategizing involved in applying to an elite school that they can help navigate. For example, if I don’t take the AP/honors level of this class that I’m not particularly strong in, will xyz college look at that more negatively than if I get a B? What order should I list my extracurriculars in? What kinds of things should I do over the summer before senior year that would add to the way I present myself? If I write my essay about x, does that make me sound entitled? Is y topic one that will put my admission officer to sleep or make him roll his eyes? Should I apply early to xyz when my second choice accepts half its class ED, or does that just mean I’ll probably get neither? What about ED 2 schools? There are a million small questions like this where getting advice from someone knowledgeable about the process can be extremely valuable even if they never once look at your essay, let alone try to rewrite it.

The OP's premise was that the colleges can spot this and it won't help the student any. And your last sentence is a bit ridiculous since of course the consultants look at the essays and have a hand in shaping it that is not the students own work.

What I think the colleges should do is what the IRS does. If you have someone prepare your taxes they have to give their name and phone number.
Colleges should say on the application form: certify that this work is your own -- or if you received any substantial help on this application give the name and phone number of whomever assisted you.

OP is just spouting a common Montra. He has never used or reviewed what a top college counselor tasks. The very best ones strategize using knowledge acquired by working with multiple kids from, multiple schools and multiple colleges. They generally know the competitive landscape and can steer your kids in to picking the ED app that is most likely to work. Also I suspect a ton of parents Have kids that applied to schools that did not require supplements to the common act. For a kid applying to top college there are about 20 pieces of writing. Many can not be reworked. And when they can the word count changes drastically. If your kid applied to basic schools you have no idea what I am talking about but the top level school. Private and assume public schools say they will help and that is actually not true. Sure the teachers proof read the common app essay and may look through an ED app or part of one but no one is going to help your kid with 20 essays or short paragraphs. Now there will be tons of parents who say let them do it on their own. Those are the kids applying to elite colleges that strike out. Kids with similar grades from the same school who did it themselves more often than not strike out. So now you say let the parents read it. That’s fine but you have the same unevenness. If your parents are journalist you have an advantage and same if they are a professor ... my
Require a ton of writing. What if mom and dad are trial lawyers? Applying to college is not nor has never been fair. And I don’t understand why people on this site constantly post something they can’t afford is stupid and worthless???

Of course they look at the essays and provide feedback, but that is not the primary function served by ethical consultants. People also use consultants to help them find the right high schools. Do you think they are also there just to rewrite the kid’s essays?

Anonymous wrote:There are significant benefits to using an outside consultant. They can give you an additional perspective/advice outside of the one provided by your school consultant. There is a lot of strategizing involved in applying to an elite school that they can help navigate. For example, if I don’t take the AP/honors level of this class that I’m not particularly strong in, will xyz college look at that more negatively than if I get a B? What order should I list my extracurriculars in? What kinds of things should I do over the summer before senior year that would add to the way I present myself? If I write my essay about x, does that make me sound entitled? Is y topic one that will put my admission officer to sleep or make him roll his eyes? Should I apply early to xyz when my second choice accepts half its class ED, or does that just mean I’ll probably get neither? What about ED 2 schools? There are a million small questions like this where getting advice from someone knowledgeable about the process can be extremely valuable even if they never once look at your essay, let alone try to rewrite it.

The OP's premise was that the colleges can spot this and it won't help the student any. And your last sentence is a bit ridiculous since of course the consultants look at the essays and have a hand in shaping it that is not the students own work.

What I think the colleges should do is what the IRS does. If you have someone prepare your taxes they have to give their name and phone number.
Colleges should say on the application form: certify that this work is your own -- or if you received any substantial help on this application give the name and phone number of whomever assisted you.

There are significant benefits to using an outside consultant. They can give you an additional perspective/advice outside of the one provided by your school consultant. There is a lot of strategizing involved in applying to an elite school that they can help navigate. For example, if I don’t take the AP/honors level of this class that I’m not particularly strong in, will xyz college look at that more negatively than if I get a B? What order should I list my extracurriculars in? What kinds of things should I do over the summer before senior year that would add to the way I present myself? If I write my essay about x, does that make me sound entitled? Is y topic one that will put my admission officer to sleep or make him roll his eyes? Should I apply early to xyz when my second choice accepts half its class ED, or does that just mean I’ll probably get neither? What about ED 2 schools? There are a million small questions like this where getting advice from someone knowledgeable about the process can be extremely valuable even if they never once look at your essay, let alone try to rewrite it.

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Anonymous wrote:We spent $8K on a consultant for our DS and he got into every school he applied to. She didn't have him aiming too high- no real reaches. She got him to focus, write his essays and get everything done and submitted in a 30 day period. We didn't use her for DD- it seemed like too much $ for what would have likely been the same results. DD wrote her essays- we spent $100 to have them reviewed by a writer and then she submitted all her apps. She too got into all of the schools she applied to except for one. I don't think a consultant is needed- the online applications are pretty straight forward and there are a bunch of good youtube videos that demonstrate completing applications, essay writing, etc. I do think that having essays reviewed is worth spending money on because sometimes the writer (and parents) don't see grammatical mistakes, etc.

The colleges have no way of checking on this, but they would disapprove if they knew for sure an application was substantially influenced by a paid professional. It's a mini-scandal, but not on the order of the blatant bribery scandal in the news the last couple of days.

Why would a college care whether it was a parent. guidance counselor or paid consultant got him to focus and write his essays

they wouldn't, but that's not what the consultants do. You are being disingenuous.

Then what real value do college counselors offer? That's really the only thing they could do that might help a kid get into a college that they otherwise might not get into. Outside that they're only facilitating the process of having kids apply to schools that they are already matches for.

They "polish" the essays, they "perfume" the essays - haven't you been reading the threads here on this? Presumably they have some valuable insider knowledge as to what the colleges are looking for or they wouldn't be able to command these high fees.

Ok, but to what extent do they "polish" these essays? I have been reading the threads. You have parents insisting that the counselors are doing nothing more than simply editing or providing basic advise. If that is true, there's really no value. If it's not true and they are more actively involved in the essay writing, it offers value, but it's unethical. So which is it? And if they are providing enough help on the essay to make it valuable albeit unethical, can't you simply pay for that service alone? Why pay for the whole $5,000 plus package that doesn't provide any other advantage.

Well look at your own words. What does "editing" mean?

I don't know. What does it mean? You have parents who use college counselors who claim that the essay help given is all rather innocent. If that is true, what's the point of paying big bucks for it?

It's not innocent and you and I know it. It's deception, and trying to pass off a paid professional's works as their own. It's a step down in dishonesty from what Lori Laughlin and Felicity Huffman did, but still unethical.