Anonymous
03/13/2019 12:17
Subject: Re:So if it can all be faked, how should college admissions work?
How has it become so difficult to get into selective schools in the last 25 years? I'm not talking about Yale and Harvard but places like UVA. According to my school most students need a 1440 SAT to get in. Did kids need that kind of score years ago?
Anonymous
03/13/2019 12:16
Subject: So if it can all be faked, how should college admissions work?
How about we start by changing attitudes on the demand side? Parents and students need to stop obsessing about school ratings and prestige. No new admission system is going to prevent most applicants to the highly selective schools from getting rejected. It’s just numbers.
Stop it with the bad logic on athletes and college sports. Only a few schools actually make money on their sports programs. The Ivy League is the name of a sports conference for goodness sake. The schools want those student-athletes, most of whom are just as smart as your kid.
Stop it with the bad logic on athletes and college sports. Only a few schools actually make money on their sports programs. The Ivy League is the name of a sports conference for goodness sake. The schools want those student-athletes, most of whom are just as smart as your kid.
Anonymous
03/13/2019 12:15
Subject: So if it can all be faked, how should college admissions work?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Lottery--seriously. A certain percentage of the incoming class is offered admission by lottery.
I actually really agree with this. Have an internal scoring criteria that puts the most weight on grades and test scores, secondary weighting on extracurriculars/work experience/volunteering, tertiary weighting on recommendations/URM. Any student that meets a minimum scoring threshold gets their name put in the lottery. The university randomly picks students via the lottery who would be capable of completing the work.
That said, I think even this would succumb to corruption. People are so invested in gaming the system. But a random lottery among those who meet the minimum qualifications would be "fairer" than the process today.
The lottery problem is that schools can’t guaruntee their desired racial balance - unless they did multiple lotteries of separate pools separated by race - which would open up a huge can of worms.
Yes - that's the only problem with a lottery.
umm, the lottery will in fact create exact racial balance of the population as a whole. this is how random samples work.
Anonymous
03/13/2019 12:14
Subject: So if it can all be faked, how should college admissions work?
Who wants to go to a school where this sort of thing is a common problem? If students and their parents are literally paying other people to attend class and take tests for them what the hell is the point of paying good money for a degree from that school. Every person that earns their degree fairly and squarely will be cast under the shadow of doubt right along with these cheaters.
If highly competitive schools are literally admitting "athletes" who have never played a sport in their lives with 1030 SAT scores or, even worse, completely fake scores.....what is the point? It makes the whole thing a joke.
If highly competitive schools are literally admitting "athletes" who have never played a sport in their lives with 1030 SAT scores or, even worse, completely fake scores.....what is the point? It makes the whole thing a joke.
Anonymous
03/13/2019 12:14
Subject: So if it can all be faked, how should college admissions work?
There is no "perfect" system, but there is one that is closest:
The one we have now. Where colleges get to choose whoever they want for whatever reason they want.
No one is ever kept out of college for any reason other than economics. There are more than enough good educations out there.
This false issue is only spouted by people who want to attend elite colleges but want to ignore the facts that make those colleges elite in the first place.
And we are not talking about the fraud that occurred, that is a separate issue and should be prosecuted.
The one we have now. Where colleges get to choose whoever they want for whatever reason they want.
No one is ever kept out of college for any reason other than economics. There are more than enough good educations out there.
This false issue is only spouted by people who want to attend elite colleges but want to ignore the facts that make those colleges elite in the first place.
And we are not talking about the fraud that occurred, that is a separate issue and should be prosecuted.
Anonymous
03/13/2019 12:13
Subject: Re:So if it can all be faked, how should college admissions work?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:We should educate everybody.
Education should not be a culling process.
Get rid of SAT/ACT.
Some people really don't need college/won't succeed in college.
Then they will choose to not go, it's not mandatory.
Anonymous
03/13/2019 12:09
Subject: So if it can all be faked, how should college admissions work?
Anonymous wrote:If I could wave a magic wand ...
1) Eliminate activities as a consideration. Do not even have it as an option on the Common or Coalition App -- no preferences for athletes, ballet stars, musical prodigies, marching band members, debaters etc.
Schools can offer these activities to anyone in the freshman class who tries out for them, like high school.
You don't really believe that, do you? Do you know the economic and artistic disaster this would be for colleges?
Anonymous
03/13/2019 12:07
Subject: So if it can all be faked, how should college admissions work?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Lottery--seriously. A certain percentage of the incoming class is offered admission by lottery.
I actually really agree with this. Have an internal scoring criteria that puts the most weight on grades and test scores, secondary weighting on extracurriculars/work experience/volunteering, tertiary weighting on recommendations/URM. Any student that meets a minimum scoring threshold gets their name put in the lottery. The university randomly picks students via the lottery who would be capable of completing the work.
That said, I think even this would succumb to corruption. People are so invested in gaming the system. But a random lottery among those who meet the minimum qualifications would be "fairer" than the process today.
The lottery problem is that schools can’t guaruntee their desired racial balance - unless they did multiple lotteries of separate pools separated by race - which would open up a huge can of worms.
Yes - that's the only problem with a lottery.
Anonymous
03/13/2019 12:06
Subject: So if it can all be faked, how should college admissions work?
Anonymous wrote:Every GPA in the country should be based off the 100 point model. Get rid of weighted courses and get rid of magnet schools. Give each school curriculum options and let the kids decide which courses they want as long as they take one math, one english, one science, one social studies, and one elective each year. Max classes is 6.
One practice test for ACT and one for SAT in Spring of sophomore year.
One test in both ACT and SAT in junior year Spring, taken at the school during a school day, 2 weeks apart. They can account for each student. No retakes are allowed. You can decide which of the two scores to submit.
Seniors should be given a 3 hour window to write their general essay in school on paper. Counselors co-sign for authenticity and upload them into their system and send them out as needed. If a college needs specific essays they must be done on high school grounds. Each school allots a 2 hour window once a week. It is hand written and co-signed by the proctor.
EC's that you can put down on a college app are maxed out at 5. Make them count.
You must apply to each school individually. App prices should be lowered or at least on a sliding scale. Under $50K a year - free. $50-100K a year - $25. $100K or higher $50.
Applications should be given numbers. Admissions should never know the name of the student. They also should not know their FAFSA/CSS until a decision has been made. A separate committee makes up the aid packages based on a scale of how bad the school wants that student. High, Average, Low.
Coaches have to give a full page report on each individual they want to recruit. All D1 athletic recruits need to do an interview at the school or have someone from admissions go to their house for the interview.
best answer yet, especially the one time testing and the 100 point GPA
Anonymous
03/13/2019 12:05
Subject: So if it can all be faked, how should college admissions work?
Anonymous wrote:What is surprising is the fact that it’s supposedly a $25 million scam. It’s so much more than that.
+1
This is only what has been uncovered thus far.
Anonymous
03/13/2019 12:04
Subject: So if it can all be faked, how should college admissions work?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:So, a lot of you want to eliminate quantifiers?
Not sure how mixing a pool of students could work that way. The top tier would be frustrated and pulled down, the lower tier would be frustrated and not able to keep up.
Students should be measured with what they can do without being overly prepped.
Entrance exams should go back to being one and done. When did all of this change for the worse?
I have friends that tell me that they would not (supposedly, not sure if they are just being humble, could be) be admitted to their top tier university these days, because there are too many applicants. When there are too many (best of the best) students, and not enough slots, therein lies one of the many problems.
I thought I read that many college's are struggling for students? I guess those are just the non-top-tier schools? What I don't understand is all the foreign students we allow in. For example, why would we ever allow Chinese students to come to America, use our university, then go home? It makes absolutely no sense unless there are empty slots that don't have domestic applicants. China has 4 times our population, they need to build 4 times as many colleges instead of depending on America for everything. Same goes for European students. Why don't they have a bigger system?
+1
Anonymous
03/13/2019 12:04
Subject: So if it can all be faked, how should college admissions work?
Anonymous wrote:The people in this thread must be the same people who worry the handful of people out of our population of 350 million who commit voter fraud. Until I see some numbers showing that cheating is higher than about 10%, it is not cost effective to try to reduce it.
The FBI is working on it. Hopefully other sources will crack down on cheating. Ask any student at certain schools - cheating is rampant.
Anonymous
03/13/2019 12:04
Subject: So if it can all be faked, how should college admissions work?
Anonymous wrote:So, a lot of you want to eliminate quantifiers?
Not sure how mixing a pool of students could work that way. The top tier would be frustrated and pulled down, the lower tier would be frustrated and not able to keep up.
Students should be measured with what they can do without being overly prepped.
Entrance exams should go back to being one and done. When did all of this change for the worse?
I have friends that tell me that they would not (supposedly, not sure if they are just being humble, could be) be admitted to their top tier university these days, because there are too many applicants. When there are too many (best of the best) students, and not enough slots, therein lies one of the many problems.
I thought I read that many college's are struggling for students? I guess those are just the non-top-tier schools? What I don't understand is all the foreign students we allow in. For example, why would we ever allow Chinese students to come to America, use our university, then go home? It makes absolutely no sense unless there are empty slots that don't have domestic applicants. China has 4 times our population, they need to build 4 times as many colleges instead of depending on America for everything. Same goes for European students. Why don't they have a bigger system?
Anonymous
03/13/2019 12:04
Subject: Re:So if it can all be faked, how should college admissions work?
Anonymous wrote:Ditch the SATs, the essay and the extracurricular stuff.
Have entrance exam that test subject matter knowledge. There will not a be single student in the USA who can score 100% on all of them.
Combine that score with the GPA and take the top x students. Done!
But GPA's are overly inflated in many areas and not in others.
Anonymous
03/13/2019 12:03
Subject: So if it can all be faked, how should college admissions work?
What is surprising is the fact that it’s supposedly a $25 million scam. It’s so much more than that.