There is an interesting discussion on reddit (not sure if we are allowed to link) where people are discussing what the deal is with Jay and Adnan - why they keep insisting they barely knew each other when it's not true, what Adnan meant when he whispered "pathetic" at Jay in the courtroom, etc.

One idea is that Adnan was going to pay Jay to kill her and that it somehow got messed up and Adnan had to do it or they did it together. Of course Adnan can't say "this wasn't what was supposed to happen, I was going to pay him to do it" so instead he has to take the fall, but Jay just watches it all happen.

I'm not so sure Adnan did it, but this idea does make some sense...

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Unfortunately after the first two episodes, its clear this has none of the magic of Serial the podcast. I binged Serial but find myself nodding to sleep at this series. My wife who never listened to Serial doesn't get it after trying to watch this and I don't blame her.

Interesting take. I agree it is just a visual retread of the podcast. So in the sense of seeing what everyone looks/looked like, it has some value but all the pertinent info was already shared on the podcast. Instead of Sarah, though, it features Rhabia whose clear bias makes the information seem very slanted, which, IMO, makes Adnan appear guilty. Honestly, if they didn't get a Jay interview, which they probably didn't, I may stop watching.

Well I don't think its a retread.. It just doesn't have the attention to detail that the podcast format has, many important points are being breezed through with no context as to their significance.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I've listed to various podcasts on the case, read articles, and now seen this documentary and my belief still hasn't changed: Jay did it. He did it either on his own or with someone else, but he did it.

I believe he did it because Hae had some dirt on him (perhaps saw him cheating) and was going to tell his girlfriend Stephanie. His girlfriend was waaaaay out of his league (good MC to UMC family vs. his LC upbringing) and he didn't want to lose her.

If Hae had dirt, I'm pretty sure it would've been in the diary. I don't buy your theory...

FYI Hae had a diary on a floppy disk that was found in her car and never investigated. We don't know what was on that and it's missing. She started writing her more private information on that after her brother read her paper diary.

source?

Website: https://lawprofessors.typepad.com/evidenceprof/2015/07/acommenteronyesterdays-postadds-additional-context-to-myprior-postabout-hae-min-lees-computer-in-that-prior-post-my-tenuous.html

Relevant comment: Jane: I really don’t want to post portions of Hae’s diary. We have the comment about the entry from the Serial website and our discussion on Undisclosed about Hae putting diary entries on her computer/floppy disk so that her brother wouldn’t see them. I will leave it at that.

Interesting.

Police framing Adnan/feeding Jay info to convict Adnan is the crux of thinking Adnan didn't do it. Netflix's Making a Murderer claimed police planted DNA to frame Steve Avery.

As great a stories these are, I always find it difficult to believe conspiracy theories, because I can't imagine so many people playing a part of keeping the secret for so long (forever). Big mouths would tell someone, or death bed confessions, etc. would eventually have the truth come out, I'd think. Have there ever been any known similar criminal situations where framing has worked for a really, really long time, then found out? (I guess we wouldn't know if there are any that were successfully carried out.)

Still doesn't follow to me. By all accounts he wasn't angry at her, they were still part of the same friend group, he was gentle and friendly by nature, etc. Doesn't add up.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Adnan killed her and was going to flee the country. They found passport photos in his car. The family also sent a younger child back to Pakistan for education after he was bullied here.

BUT WHY!?!?! This is what's never made sense. They had broken up but he was dating also - by all accounts they were on good terms and he was a friendly, nonviolent guy. What's the motive?

They had been on and off and it seems that the final break-up was only a week or two before and he was dumped for another dude. Emotions run high with your first love.

Anonymous wrote:Adnan killed her and was going to flee the country. They found passport photos in his car. The family also sent a younger child back to Pakistan for education after he was bullied here.

BUT WHY!?!?! This is what's never made sense. They had broken up but he was dating also - by all accounts they were on good terms and he was a friendly, nonviolent guy. What's the motive?

Adnan killed her and was going to flee the country. They found passport photos in his car. The family also sent a younger child back to Pakistan for education after he was bullied here.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I've listed to various podcasts on the case, read articles, and now seen this documentary and my belief still hasn't changed: Jay did it. He did it either on his own or with someone else, but he did it.

I believe he did it because Hae had some dirt on him (perhaps saw him cheating) and was going to tell his girlfriend Stephanie. His girlfriend was waaaaay out of his league (good MC to UMC family vs. his LC upbringing) and he didn't want to lose her.

If Hae had dirt, I'm pretty sure it would've been in the diary. I don't buy your theory...

FYI Hae had a diary on a floppy disk that was found in her car and never investigated. We don't know what was on that and it's missing. She started writing her more private information on that after her brother read her paper diary.

source?

Website: https://lawprofessors.typepad.com/evidenceprof/2015/07/acommenteronyesterdays-postadds-additional-context-to-myprior-postabout-hae-min-lees-computer-in-that-prior-post-my-tenuous.html

Relevant comment: Jane: I really don’t want to post portions of Hae’s diary. We have the comment about the entry from the Serial website and our discussion on Undisclosed about Hae putting diary entries on her computer/floppy disk so that her brother wouldn’t see them. I will leave it at that.

Anonymous wrote:I am curious if Stephanie will be interviewed on the show. I wonder what she has to say about Jay and his involvement.

Jen P (and her sorority sister for that matter) did not age well, and she may still be a pothead, but I found her to be truthful. I can imagine being caught up in someone's story and getting some of the details wrong. Especially if it's someone like Jay who probably embellished everything he said.

Was that a scar on Jay's neck?

Rhabia drives me nuts. She's too "yeah! and what about this?!" which makes it seem like she's grasping at straws even if the what ifs are legit.

Is looking at a 20 year old vacant lot really significant and could be used somehow as evidence? Or is it just a way to encourage further investigation?

Has Adnan ever taken a lie detector test?

Asia McClain alibi seems to be less reliable after seeing her talk about it, rather than hearing the lawyers explain her alibi on the podcast. I don't think she's lying about being with him, I just think she has the wrong day but really wants to be relevant.

I agree with pps - if I hadn't listened to Serial, then Undisclosed, I don't think I could follow HBO's timeline visuals and jumping around.

Agreed---plus her retelling of their conversation about Adnan discussing Hae's new bf does bode well for him not caring about the breakup.

Anonymous wrote:When I listened to Serial, I thought Jay was lying left and right. Jay was way more involved than he was letting on, that he was covering for his girlfriend Stephanie. That Stephanie accidentally killed Hae, and Jay and Syed helped the cover up. Syed was portrayed as caring quite deeply for Stephanie. Im not saying his feelings were romantic, but I think Syed is covering for her too.

Stephanie has no motive. Moreover, Hae was strangled to death. Women don't strangle each other. Men strangle women.

My theory: I think Stephanie may be part of Jay's motive to frame Adnan. Adnan and Stephanie were on/off hooking up, meaning that Adnan was Jay's biggest romantic rival. That's why Jay knew all the details- bc he did it. And it's obvious that Jay likes to hurt women so the question of whether or not he's capable is easily answered by a glance through his criminal history.

I am curious if Stephanie will be interviewed on the show. I wonder what she has to say about Jay and his involvement.

Jen P (and her sorority sister for that matter) did not age well, and she may still be a pothead, but I found her to be truthful. I can imagine being caught up in someone's story and getting some of the details wrong. Especially if it's someone like Jay who probably embellished everything he said.

Was that a scar on Jay's neck?

Rhabia drives me nuts. She's too "yeah! and what about this?!" which makes it seem like she's grasping at straws even if the what ifs are legit.

Is looking at a 20 year old vacant lot really significant and could be used somehow as evidence? Or is it just a way to encourage further investigation?

Has Adnan ever taken a lie detector test?

Asia McClain alibi seems to be less reliable after seeing her talk about it, rather than hearing the lawyers explain her alibi on the podcast. I don't think she's lying about being with him, I just think she has the wrong day but really wants to be relevant.

I agree with pps - if I hadn't listened to Serial, then Undisclosed, I don't think I could follow HBO's timeline visuals and jumping around.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I've listed to various podcasts on the case, read articles, and now seen this documentary and my belief still hasn't changed: Jay did it. He did it either on his own or with someone else, but he did it.

I believe he did it because Hae had some dirt on him (perhaps saw him cheating) and was going to tell his girlfriend Stephanie. His girlfriend was waaaaay out of his league (good MC to UMC family vs. his LC upbringing) and he didn't want to lose her.

If Hae had dirt, I'm pretty sure it would've been in the diary. I don't buy your theory...

FYI Hae had a diary on a floppy disk that was found in her car and never investigated. We don't know what was on that and it's missing. She started writing her more private information on that after her brother read her paper diary.

source?

Anonymous wrote:Unfortunately after the first two episodes, its clear this has none of the magic of Serial the podcast. I binged Serial but find myself nodding to sleep at this series. My wife who never listened to Serial doesn't get it after trying to watch this and I don't blame her.

Interesting take. I agree it is just a visual retread of the podcast. So in the sense of seeing what everyone looks/looked like, it has some value but all the pertinent info was already shared on the podcast. Instead of Sarah, though, it features Rhabia whose clear bias makes the information seem very slanted, which, IMO, makes Adnan appear guilty. Honestly, if they didn't get a Jay interview, which they probably didn't, I may stop watching.

Unfortunately after the first two episodes, its clear this has none of the magic of Serial the podcast. I binged Serial but find myself nodding to sleep at this series. My wife who never listened to Serial doesn't get it after trying to watch this and I don't blame her.