Anonymous
Post 03/07/2019 13:34     Subject: Re:Banneker v. Wilson

That's a tautological argument in this particular context. Bias for you own race is based on a belief that your race is material in terms of learning environment. I get that it can be inextricable from SES and low-performance, but that isn't necessarily the case with Banneker, which doesn't have a performance concern and serves a breadth of SES levels. "Learning environment" or "culture" is often short-hand for not white-dominant approach. I rarely see this when expecting minority families to adapt to a white-dominant environment.


But would you say the same thing about the HBCUs? Do you ask why whites do not regularly apply to them?



Here's the difference - the HBCUs were established and continue to support primarily black students who have been excluded from higher education opportunities and which to this day are still providing black families that lack the higher education generational history with a supportive, welcoming environment -was noted on pages one and two below. Secondly, the reason whites don't regularly apply to HBCUs is probably much the same as what's been professed here as well - that white kids don't need those supports/handholding/don't want to be extreme minority, etc.

There's been a lot of discussion about this over the years on DCUM, and I think that the lack of white kids at Banneker is due to a couple of factors. This includes racism, in the form of whites being intimidated to be an extreme minority. But a little more complexly, I think it also involves a degree of white privilege, with white parents actually not thinking their kids "need" to do the really hard work at Banneker, because they'll be "just fine" at Wilson. Seen from a different angle, white parents in DC have different paths to push their kids forward, without having to do the awkward work of integration and a punishing amount of homework. Basically very similar to the reasons they turn their noses up at KIPP. Lastly, I do think Banneker is basically and HBCU high school, and my guess is the school culture there just doesn't go out of its way to try to accommodate the worries of white families. I don't get the sense it's an open door there laying down the red carpet for the exaggerated amount of hand-holding white families might demand. (Which, I don't really have an issue with myself.)


^^ apologies for the word salad. the internet has destroyed my prose.

DP, and I think you were perfectly understandable. I do think that there is a hesitation from families who are not black about Banneker for the reasons you describe well. There is certainly a perception among non-black families that Banneker is a pipeline to HBCU entry, and I think that is part of it.



This may be the case for some, but I also think that if de facto it is an "HBHS" then that will affect white enrollment, just as it might at Howard. Maybe having more white kids attend isn't even desirable, if it serves its niche well? If it is desirable it should be part of the administration's goals and discussed in the community.


What do you mean part of the administration’s goals?


DP. I think it means that Banneker has historically been geared toward kids who are first-generation college applicants, the majority of whom are AA, and would want the support that an HBCU provides. They are also probably wired toward schools that offer a substantial amount of aid for URM. That has become a strength but probably at the cost of trying to aim for a broader target of students. Mind you, people don't seem to care that SWW aims for Ivies, SLACs, and competitive public universities primarily.


Anonymous
Post 03/07/2019 13:27     Subject: Re:Banneker v. Wilson
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:





.





PP here. I'm not dismissing the school - again, my kid is a decade away from even looking at high school. I am dismissing the idea that it is racist to be uncomfortable about being a 1 or 2% minority in a school or anywhere else. Would you call an AA parent racist because they were uncomfortable with the notion of sending their child to a school where they might be the only one of their race? Or what about sending your son to dance camp for a summer where he was the only male? That doesn't mean you think females are bad or dance is bad or white people are bad or whatever. It means you don't want your kid to feel like an outlier, which is particularly challenging in the teenage years. People have a natural, perfectly reasonable desire to find groups that they are familiar with - you know, it kept humans alive for millenia, so kind of hard to fight that whole evolution thing. Also as I stated previously, there could be other attributes at a school that make the trade off of being an extreme minority worth it - like a great curriculum, school culture, cost, etc. I'm not saying the school isn't good or that people shouldn't look at sending their children there. I'm just saying it is totally ridiculous to assume that because a parent is uncomfortable with their child being a 1% minority and actually want diversity in a student body that they think that black youth are dangerous or less than or whatever else.

Again, I went to a high school where I was the minority racially. The school was great and I had plenty of friends in both races, but I do think it would have been a harder transition if I was a 1% minority rather than a 15% minority at a time in my life where "feeling different" can be very isolating and potentially dangerous to mental health.



Fixed the quoting issue.

My point is people need to think about why you think it is uncomfortable being in the 1%? Skin color or income are two variable of many that make up a person. We share more with people than those two variables. Are those the two variables you focus on when you make friends? Or others? Do you only prefer to hang out with people in your race and income? I like people with shared interests. I was also the only woman and one of few Americans in my graduate program. I guess that’s why I didn’t worry about the demographic of my kid’s new DCPS school. Again, one is only an outlier in those two categories...two categories out of many.
Anonymous
Post 03/07/2019 13:23     Subject: Re:Banneker v. Wilson
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:





.





PP here. I'm not dismissing the school - again, my kid is a decade away from even looking at high school. I am dismissing the idea that it is racist to be uncomfortable about being a 1 or 2% minority in a school or anywhere else. Would you call an AA parent racist because they were uncomfortable with the notion of sending their child to a school where they might be the only one of their race? Or what about sending your son to dance camp for a summer where he was the only male? That doesn't mean you think females are bad or dance is bad or white people are bad or whatever. It means you don't want your kid to feel like an outlier, which is particularly challenging in the teenage years. People have a natural, perfectly reasonable desire to find groups that they are familiar with - you know, it kept humans alive for millenia, so kind of hard to fight that whole evolution thing. Also as I stated previously, there could be other attributes at a school that make the trade off of being an extreme minority worth it - like a great curriculum, school culture, cost, etc. I'm not saying the school isn't good or that people shouldn't look at sending their children there. I'm just saying it is totally ridiculous to assume that because a parent is uncomfortable with their child being a 1% minority and actually want diversity in a student body that they think that black youth are dangerous or less than or whatever else.

Again, I went to a high school where I was the minority racially. The school was great and I had plenty of friends in both races, but I do think it would have been a harder transition if I was a 1% minority rather than a 15% minority at a time in my life where "feeling different" can be very isolating and potentially dangerous to mental health.


My point is people need to think about why you think it is uncomfortable being in the 1%? Skin color or income are two variable of many that make up a person. We share more with people than those two variables. Are those the two variables you focus on when you make friends? Or others? Do you only prefer to hang out with people in your race and income? I like people with shared interests. I was also the only woman and one of few Americans in my graduate program. I guess that’s why I didn’t worry about the demographic of my kid’s new DCPS school. Again, one is only an outlier in those two categories...two categories out of many.
Anonymous
Post 03/07/2019 12:39     Subject: Re:Banneker v. Wilson
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:


It isn't at all strange to not want you or your kid of be an extreme minority in any instance - race, sex, physical ability, SES, etc. It doesn't mean that diversity isn't valued, but I wouldn't want to go to a school that was 99% male or 99% outside my SES status (far below or above) just because it is important to feel like you aren't an outlier. That isn't strange or racist. That is totally normal and healthy. Again, it doesn't mean there isn't a ton of value in being exposed to all kinds of diversity but people (especially kids) often need to feel like they have a secure basis to really learn from it, which comes, in part, from familiarity. I am saying this as someone who went to a school that was probably 90% white with very high SES (where I was on the lower end) until 8th grade and then moved to a school that was about 15% white with a lot more economic diversity. I learned a lot from the experience, but I think moving to a school where I was in the 2% minority both racially and economically would have made the transition very difficult.
But the thing to remember this is a 2% minority at Banneker, not Ballou. Not saying that that 2% shouldn't deter you from sending your child but I am arguing that you should check it out first and get more information. Go to the open house. Talk to parents and staff. Apply and go through the process. Then decide.


Im about a decade out before we have to start looking at high schools, but I agree you shouldn’t write a school off based solely on demographics. I just think it’s ridiculous to imply (as several have on the thread in both overt and subtle ways) that people are racist because they don’t like the idea of their kid going to a school where they will be an absolute outlier demographically. Sometimes the benefits of a school outweigh any costs associated with that or you don’t have other choices, but it’s totally normal and fine to feel a least a little uncomfortable about the idea — regardless of what the majority of the population at the school looks like. If I were lower SES and AA (or any other demographic combination), I would probably want a school where my kid was able to associate with at least a significant number of peers that could share those characteristics even if a lot of his other peers don’t.





You are dismissing a school based on race though. I’m the PP with the 5th grader who is one of 3 white kids in a predominantly AA school. We moved from an all white wealthy suburb to DCPS. My child is having a great year and has tons of friends. Had we dismissed the school due to the low percentage of white rich kids, my dc would missed out on an overwhelmingly positive experience. Dismissing based on demographics is dehumanizing to the kids.


+100


Thing is, racist is a loaded term in our society. Is it biased? Yes. You are showing bias for your own race, at least to some extent (you are making judgments based on the color of kids at a school). I did the same at our local IB, but there were ALSO other reasons for that (its low performance and style of education). I'm impressed PP did not have any pause moving to the DCPS from a suburb, and while I wish more people would take this risk and probably learn the same, I will admit it was not one we took. Now, Banneker intrigues me and I would definitely take a look when the time comes. I can only hope my child is open minded enough by then to be interested in taking such a risk. I think painting everyone with too broad a brush on this board is problematic (both those claiming racism, and those claiming it's no big deal to be in the 1%).


That's a tautological argument in this particular context. Bias for you own race is based on a belief that your race is material in terms of learning environment. I get that it can be inextricable from SES and low-performance, but that isn't necessarily the case with Banneker, which doesn't have a performance concern and serves a breadth of SES levels. "Learning environment" or "culture" is often short-hand for not white-dominant approach. I rarely see this when expecting minority families to adapt to a white-dominant environment.


But would you say the same thing about the HBCUs? Do you ask why whites do not regularly apply to them?
Anonymous
Post 03/07/2019 12:21     Subject: Re:Banneker v. Wilson
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:


It isn't at all strange to not want you or your kid of be an extreme minority in any instance - race, sex, physical ability, SES, etc. It doesn't mean that diversity isn't valued, but I wouldn't want to go to a school that was 99% male or 99% outside my SES status (far below or above) just because it is important to feel like you aren't an outlier. That isn't strange or racist. That is totally normal and healthy. Again, it doesn't mean there isn't a ton of value in being exposed to all kinds of diversity but people (especially kids) often need to feel like they have a secure basis to really learn from it, which comes, in part, from familiarity. I am saying this as someone who went to a school that was probably 90% white with very high SES (where I was on the lower end) until 8th grade and then moved to a school that was about 15% white with a lot more economic diversity. I learned a lot from the experience, but I think moving to a school where I was in the 2% minority both racially and economically would have made the transition very difficult.
But the thing to remember this is a 2% minority at Banneker, not Ballou. Not saying that that 2% shouldn't deter you from sending your child but I am arguing that you should check it out first and get more information. Go to the open house. Talk to parents and staff. Apply and go through the process. Then decide.


Im about a decade out before we have to start looking at high schools, but I agree you shouldn’t write a school off based solely on demographics. I just think it’s ridiculous to imply (as several have on the thread in both overt and subtle ways) that people are racist because they don’t like the idea of their kid going to a school where they will be an absolute outlier demographically. Sometimes the benefits of a school outweigh any costs associated with that or you don’t have other choices, but it’s totally normal and fine to feel a least a little uncomfortable about the idea — regardless of what the majority of the population at the school looks like. If I were lower SES and AA (or any other demographic combination), I would probably want a school where my kid was able to associate with at least a significant number of peers that could share those characteristics even if a lot of his other peers don’t.





You are dismissing a school based on race though. I’m the PP with the 5th grader who is one of 3 white kids in a predominantly AA school. We moved from an all white wealthy suburb to DCPS. My child is having a great year and has tons of friends. Had we dismissed the school due to the low percentage of white rich kids, my dc would missed out on an overwhelmingly positive experience. Dismissing based on demographics is dehumanizing to the kids.


+100


Thing is, racist is a loaded term in our society. Is it biased? Yes. You are showing bias for your own race, at least to some extent (you are making judgments based on the color of kids at a school). I did the same at our local IB, but there were ALSO other reasons for that (its low performance and style of education). I'm impressed PP did not have any pause moving to the DCPS from a suburb, and while I wish more people would take this risk and probably learn the same, I will admit it was not one we took. Now, Banneker intrigues me and I would definitely take a look when the time comes. I can only hope my child is open minded enough by then to be interested in taking such a risk. I think painting everyone with too broad a brush on this board is problematic (both those claiming racism, and those claiming it's no big deal to be in the 1%).


That's a tautological argument in this particular context. Bias for you own race is based on a belief that your race is material in terms of learning environment. I get that it can be inextricable from SES and low-performance, but that isn't necessarily the case with Banneker, which doesn't have a performance concern and serves a breadth of SES levels. "Learning environment" or "culture" is often short-hand for not white-dominant approach. I rarely see this when expecting minority families to adapt to a white-dominant environment.


PP here. I'm not dismissing the school - again, my kid is a decade away from even looking at high school. I am dismissing the idea that it is racist to be uncomfortable about being a 1 or 2% minority in a school or anywhere else. Would you call an AA parent racist because they were uncomfortable with the notion of sending their child to a school where they might be the only one of their race? Or what about sending your son to dance camp for a summer where he was the only male? That doesn't mean you think females are bad or dance is bad or white people are bad or whatever. It means you don't want your kid to feel like an outlier, which is particularly challenging in the teenage years. People have a natural, perfectly reasonable desire to find groups that they are familiar with - you know, it kept humans alive for millenia, so kind of hard to fight that whole evolution thing. Also as I stated previously, there could be other attributes at a school that make the trade off of being an extreme minority worth it - like a great curriculum, school culture, cost, etc. I'm not saying the school isn't good or that people shouldn't look at sending their children there. I'm just saying it is totally ridiculous to assume that because a parent is uncomfortable with their child being a 1% minority and actually want diversity in a student body that they think that black youth are dangerous or less than or whatever else.

Again, I went to a high school where I was the minority racially. The school was great and I had plenty of friends in both races, but I do think it would have been a harder transition if I was a 1% minority rather than a 15% minority at a time in my life where "feeling different" can be very isolating and potentially dangerous to mental health.
Anonymous
Post 03/07/2019 12:19     Subject: Banneker v. Wilson
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:My kids and his friends all liked Wilson better, so that's where they as a group decided to go, except for the ones who got into private schools. They are a large group and a mix of races, btw. And they think you are all crazy for thinking they are racist for choosing Wilson, and even crazier if you think it is racist for the white ones among them to choose Wilson, but OK for everyone else. You are all nuts in the eyes of 14 year olds who know better.



You aren’t the warm fuzzy center of the universe.


??


No one is discussing your son and his friends. Stop personalizing posts.
Anonymous
Post 03/07/2019 12:16     Subject: Banneker v. Wilson
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:My kids and his friends all liked Wilson better, so that's where they as a group decided to go, except for the ones who got into private schools. They are a large group and a mix of races, btw. And they think you are all crazy for thinking they are racist for choosing Wilson, and even crazier if you think it is racist for the white ones among them to choose Wilson, but OK for everyone else. You are all nuts in the eyes of 14 year olds who know better.



You aren’t the warm fuzzy center of the universe.


??
Anonymous
Post 03/07/2019 12:14     Subject: Banneker v. Wilson
Anonymous wrote:My kids and his friends all liked Wilson better, so that's where they as a group decided to go, except for the ones who got into private schools. They are a large group and a mix of races, btw. And they think you are all crazy for thinking they are racist for choosing Wilson, and even crazier if you think it is racist for the white ones among them to choose Wilson, but OK for everyone else. You are all nuts in the eyes of 14 year olds who know better.



You aren’t the warm fuzzy center of the universe.
Anonymous
Post 03/07/2019 12:08     Subject: Banneker v. Wilson
Anonymous wrote:My kids and his friends all liked Wilson better, so that's where they as a group decided to go, except for the ones who got into private schools. They are a large group and a mix of races, btw. And they think you are all crazy for thinking they are racist for choosing Wilson, and even crazier if you think it is racist for the white ones among them to choose Wilson, but OK for everyone else. You are all nuts in the eyes of 14 year olds who know better.


Sensitive much? The discussion the last several pages has been about the reasons people don't even consider Banneker, or why they couch their views through vague assertions of fear, without looking at the merits.
Anonymous
Post 03/07/2019 11:58     Subject: Banneker v. Wilson
My kids and his friends all liked Wilson better, so that's where they as a group decided to go, except for the ones who got into private schools. They are a large group and a mix of races, btw. And they think you are all crazy for thinking they are racist for choosing Wilson, and even crazier if you think it is racist for the white ones among them to choose Wilson, but OK for everyone else. You are all nuts in the eyes of 14 year olds who know better.
Anonymous
Post 03/07/2019 11:52     Subject: Banneker v. Wilson
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:People are more offended by being called a racist than they are by seeing or perpetuating racist behavior.



No one likes to be called out for their actions. If one perpetuates racism, how are they not racist?


You are perpetuating racism, therefore you are racist.
Anonymous
Post 03/07/2019 11:51     Subject: Re:Banneker v. Wilson
Anonymous wrote:Banneker does not seem great for STEM students.
Also it is mostly academic focused and does not offer much in terms of sports, etc.
Many kids want a more balanced HS experience.


+1.

Plus, the school "counsels out" over half of the 9th grade boys by graduation time.
Anonymous
Post 03/07/2019 11:28     Subject: Banneker v. Wilson
Anonymous wrote:People are more offended by being called a racist than they are by seeing or perpetuating racist behavior.



No one likes to be called out for their actions. If one perpetuates racism, how are they not racist?
Anonymous
Post 03/07/2019 09:48     Subject: Banneker v. Wilson
People are more offended by being called a racist than they are by seeing or perpetuating racist behavior.
Anonymous
Post 03/07/2019 09:37     Subject: Re:Banneker v. Wilson
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:


It isn't at all strange to not want you or your kid of be an extreme minority in any instance - race, sex, physical ability, SES, etc. It doesn't mean that diversity isn't valued, but I wouldn't want to go to a school that was 99% male or 99% outside my SES status (far below or above) just because it is important to feel like you aren't an outlier. That isn't strange or racist. That is totally normal and healthy. Again, it doesn't mean there isn't a ton of value in being exposed to all kinds of diversity but people (especially kids) often need to feel like they have a secure basis to really learn from it, which comes, in part, from familiarity. I am saying this as someone who went to a school that was probably 90% white with very high SES (where I was on the lower end) until 8th grade and then moved to a school that was about 15% white with a lot more economic diversity. I learned a lot from the experience, but I think moving to a school where I was in the 2% minority both racially and economically would have made the transition very difficult.
But the thing to remember this is a 2% minority at Banneker, not Ballou. Not saying that that 2% shouldn't deter you from sending your child but I am arguing that you should check it out first and get more information. Go to the open house. Talk to parents and staff. Apply and go through the process. Then decide.


Im about a decade out before we have to start looking at high schools, but I agree you shouldn’t write a school off based solely on demographics. I just think it’s ridiculous to imply (as several have on the thread in both overt and subtle ways) that people are racist because they don’t like the idea of their kid going to a school where they will be an absolute outlier demographically. Sometimes the benefits of a school outweigh any costs associated with that or you don’t have other choices, but it’s totally normal and fine to feel a least a little uncomfortable about the idea — regardless of what the majority of the population at the school looks like. If I were lower SES and AA (or any other demographic combination), I would probably want a school where my kid was able to associate with at least a significant number of peers that could share those characteristics even if a lot of his other peers don’t.





You are dismissing a school based on race though. I’m the PP with the 5th grader who is one of 3 white kids in a predominantly AA school. We moved from an all white wealthy suburb to DCPS. My child is having a great year and has tons of friends. Had we dismissed the school due to the low percentage of white rich kids, my dc would missed out on an overwhelmingly positive experience. Dismissing based on demographics is dehumanizing to the kids.


+100


Thing is, racist is a loaded term in our society. Is it biased? Yes. You are showing bias for your own race, at least to some extent (you are making judgments based on the color of kids at a school). I did the same at our local IB, but there were ALSO other reasons for that (its low performance and style of education). I'm impressed PP did not have any pause moving to the DCPS from a suburb, and while I wish more people would take this risk and probably learn the same, I will admit it was not one we took. Now, Banneker intrigues me and I would definitely take a look when the time comes. I can only hope my child is open minded enough by then to be interested in taking such a risk. I think painting everyone with too broad a brush on this board is problematic (both those claiming racism, and those claiming it's no big deal to be in the 1%).


That's a tautological argument in this particular context. Bias for you own race is based on a belief that your race is material in terms of learning environment. I get that it can be inextricable from SES and low-performance, but that isn't necessarily the case with Banneker, which doesn't have a performance concern and serves a breadth of SES levels. "Learning environment" or "culture" is often short-hand for not white-dominant approach. I rarely see this when expecting minority families to adapt to a white-dominant environment.