Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:BTW for everyone interested, you can find records of appeals of some clearance decisions here:

http://ogc.osd.mil/doha/industrial/

Worth looking through what issues get raised.

Wow, 95% of those cases are due to financial issues. Never get behind on your bills! This sort of sucks, because the process really privileges people who were provided financial literacy when they were young. That tends to be people who come from money. Or, those who come from a stable family with some money have a relative who can bail them out of their early financial mistakes.

It's a tough call.

Sure, but the ultimate reason finances are an issue is because foreign governments can easily offer someone in debt a lot of money in exchange for government secrets. It does end up privileging people who have money, but there's a clear national security reason for it.

This case just makes me sad. We need single payer coverage!

http://ogc.osd.mil/doha/industrial/2018/18-01227.h1.pdf

Anonymous wrote:BTW for everyone interested, you can find records of appeals of some clearance decisions here:

http://ogc.osd.mil/doha/industrial/

Worth looking through what issues get raised.

Wow, 95% of those cases are due to financial issues. Never get behind on your bills! This sort of sucks, because the process really privileges people who were provided financial literacy when they were young. That tends to be people who come from money. Or, those who come from a stable family with some money have a relative who can bail them out of their early financial mistakes.

It's a tough call.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Pardon the ignorance here, but what’s the big deal about having dual citizenship?

Your allegiance is to more than one country. If you’re in a position to have access to national secrets, your allegiance should be to the US. It’s similar to the restrictions around foreign bank accounts and owning foreign property. However, there always exceptions to all of those situations.

I never really understood this either. Someone who is a dual citizen of the US and Canada probably shouldn't be under the same level of scrutiny as someone who is a dual citizen of the US and Saudi Arabia.

Of course. Having dual citizenship doesn't mean you're automatically denied. It really depends on what other country is involved and what your ties are to that country.

Very little is black and white in this process. Ultimately it's a judgment call.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:BTW for everyone interested, you can find records of appeals of some clearance decisions here:

http://ogc.osd.mil/doha/industrial/

Worth looking through what issues get raised.

I don’t understand the one where the judge thought that the applicant was 5 years older??

http://ogc.osd.mil/doha/industrial/2018/17-01866.a1.pdf

What don’t you understand? The judge listed the applicant’s age incorrectly in his/her initial opinion. The applicant appealed, claiming harmful error. The appeal board affirmed the judge’s decision, concluding that the error was harmless and therefore didn’t warrant reversal or remand.

On the summary page it says ‘adverse decision affirmed’ which I took to mean upheld.

In his appeal brief, Applicant stated the Judge erred in finding he was 58 years old when he was actually five years younger. This was a harmless error because it did not likely affect the outcome of the case. Adverse decision affirmed.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Pardon the ignorance here, but what’s the big deal about having dual citizenship?

Your allegiance is to more than one country. If you’re in a position to have access to national secrets, your allegiance should be to the US. It’s similar to the restrictions around foreign bank accounts and owning foreign property. However, there always exceptions to all of those situations.

I never really understood this either. Someone who is a dual citizen of the US and Canada probably shouldn't be under the same level of scrutiny as someone who is a dual citizen of the US and Saudi Arabia.

That is where judgement comes in for the person doing the investigation AND the position / organization the person is applying for.

Reminder - secrets from Nuclear Lab stolen by scientists who worked at Los Alamos and returned to China. Reality is the China is supporting North Korea.

I have dual citizenship with a typically friendly country— but not always. My agency just holds onto my other passport. It delayed my clearance a bit but nothing drastic.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Pardon the ignorance here, but what’s the big deal about having dual citizenship?

Your allegiance is to more than one country. If you’re in a position to have access to national secrets, your allegiance should be to the US. It’s similar to the restrictions around foreign bank accounts and owning foreign property. However, there always exceptions to all of those situations.

I never really understood this either. Someone who is a dual citizen of the US and Canada probably shouldn't be under the same level of scrutiny as someone who is a dual citizen of the US and Saudi Arabia.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have a friend who was born in Taiwan, is a naturalized US citizen, and has many Chinese relatives who live on the mainland or who live in the USA and often travel to Taiwan and the PRC. He still has a clearance. This sorta surprises me.

He is a US citizen. He is allowed to travel if he gets permission.

Permission from whom? US citizens don’t need permission to travel.

Having a clearance means that to a certain extent there are some civil liberties that you do give up. You do need to report planned foreign travel, receive permission and often get a pre-travel threat briefing. Afterwards you have to fill out paperwork. The government is trusting you with classified information, your whereabouts are important.

This is real - it is not just movie stuff. I know of a CIA agent who recently was murdered. If you have a TS and are traveling abroad, the agency needs to know so they can "help" in case you do not return.

Exactly. I've had a TS//SCI clearance for almost 10 years and I've traveled all over without incident. The point isn't to deny you the right to travel (although there are a couple of countries they won't let you travel to). The purpose is to make sure they know where you are so they can help you if something happens. People who hold these types of clearances are targets -- especially abroad.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have many friends with clearances, particularly who work at State/USAID. By nature of their careers, these people have travelled abroad a ton and have many foreign contacts (and sometimes foreign relatives). The only person I know who was denied a clearance was a friend who is the most innnocuous sweet person with no foreign relatives and very limited foreign travel. No one could figure out why on earth they denied her.

If she was keeping a secret you can be denied. I know someone who was denied because she wouldn’t tell her family that she’d had an abortion - the abortion itself wasn’t the issue, it was that she kept it secret. It’s an issue of whether you can be bribed.

What? Some of the stories and perspectives on this thread are crazy to me. My clearance process was nothing like this. How would anyone even know if I have/haven’t had an abortion? People take this so weirdly seriously. Just live a normal law-abiding life and follow the rules and there shouldn’t be any issues.

-Has TS/SCI

They check medical records and can figure out more than you realize.

Anonymous wrote:I help new team members navigate the security process. I have team members who smoked pot within the last year in a state where it is "legal" who get public trust denied.
Team members with bankruptcy denied
Team members who have dual citizenship denied

Individuals with a company bankruptcy - took a really long time to make a decision but eventually got public trust.

Individuals who did a lot of international travel in Eastern European - took a very long time but eventually got public trust.

Individuals who did not register for selective service - denied.
Individual who had decided not to take a breathalyzer and hired a lawyer to get his record cleared - denied.

Dual citizenship denied?!

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have a friend who was born in Taiwan, is a naturalized US citizen, and has many Chinese relatives who live on the mainland or who live in the USA and often travel to Taiwan and the PRC. He still has a clearance. This sorta surprises me.

He is a US citizen. He is allowed to travel if he gets permission.

Permission from whom? US citizens don’t need permission to travel.

Having a clearance means that to a certain extent there are some civil liberties that you do give up. You do need to report planned foreign travel, receive permission and often get a pre-travel threat briefing. Afterwards you have to fill out paperwork. The government is trusting you with classified information, your whereabouts are important.

This is real - it is not just movie stuff. I know of a CIA agent who recently was murdered. If you have a TS and are traveling abroad, the agency needs to know so they can "help" in case you do not return.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have a friend who was born in Taiwan, is a naturalized US citizen, and has many Chinese relatives who live on the mainland or who live in the USA and often travel to Taiwan and the PRC. He still has a clearance. This sorta surprises me.

He is a US citizen. He is allowed to travel if he gets permission.

Permission from whom? US citizens don’t need permission to travel.

Having a clearance means that to a certain extent there are some civil liberties that you do give up. You do need to report planned foreign travel, receive permission and often get a pre-travel threat briefing. Afterwards you have to fill out paperwork. The government is trusting you with classified information, your whereabouts are important.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Weed shouldn't be illegal at the federal level especially since it's already legal in many states

If you can't see the difference between smoking weed with a friend and robbing a bank, then I can't help you

I mean, I agree. Just don’t be surprised when your clearance is denied for it.

Ok a couple of things:

1. If you robbed a bank, you probably would also be denied for a clearance.

2. While I agree with you about weed being no worse than alcohol (which they do question you about in the clearance process, but obviously don't prevent you from consuming), agencies can make whatever requirements they want. The concern with drugs is that your judgment will be impaired and you'll be subject to blackmail. I do think that as weed becomes legal in more and more states, federal agencies will be under increasing pressure to loosen their restrictions. They absolutely differentiate between weed and harder drugs. For weed, they just want no use in the last 12 months. For harder drugs, they really don't want any usage.

Anonymous wrote:Weed shouldn't be illegal at the federal level especially since it's already legal in many states

If you can't see the difference between smoking weed with a friend and robbing a bank, then I can't help you

I mean, I agree. Just don’t be surprised when your clearance is denied for it.