Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I wouldn’t exclude the general “fun” factor for girls either. My DD has been on 3 not so great teams in a row and I think it’s definitely taken a toll on her soccer outlook. Good coaching is obviously important but comradeship and team chemistry definitely play a huge role in development too, if only looking at the impact on a player’s motivation to improve.

I agree 100%!

Anonymous wrote:I wouldn’t exclude the general “fun” factor for girls either. My DD has been on 3 not so great teams in a row and I think it’s definitely taken a toll on her soccer outlook. Good coaching is obviously important but comradeship and team chemistry definitely play a huge role in development too, if only looking at the impact on a player’s motivation to improve.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here. I am amazed at the moronic responses posted. I asked the question because I am interested in learning more and hearing other perspectives. If you don't like the question or can't add anything relevant then go away. Why post? I have found several of the posts informative and helpful. Notice that I have no other agenda other than to hear insights and perspectives. I have not pushed a club or coach or written anything negative about a club or coach. At the end of the day, this is why we have the site so that people can share information. Again, if you are not interested in sharing information then go away. It is simple.

BTW, you don't need to know anything about my kid other than she is of age to enter DA/ECNL and is considering both leagues. Again, if you don't have anythig to add then go away.

Finally, I have asked for suggestions of non-ECNL/DA teams and coaches.

People HAVE provided honest answers as well as perspective. I am sorry that they are not what you want to hear but you been granted every courtesy you deserve. You have also been told that in order to provide better answers more information is needed from you. It is not that complicated. State the age and clubs and you will may get meaningful answers.

And you have been told by the people you have asked that our knowing the age is important. Perhaps people know what age groups a coach will end up with that you hadn't considered. This is a two way street my friend and frankly you are the one who is not getting the answers to questions that only you want. The fact of the matter is we don't care enough about your kid to tell you more than you have already been told without more info. Where you end up means more to you than any of us so either follow the advice that has been given with the best of intent or stfu.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The above is insightful. The "best" in my book is more about the ability of a coach to fully develop a player and motivate that player to improve on their own. Technical improvements and soccer IQ are key at u15 and younger. At u16 and older, I think access to the best competition, expanding the soccer IQ, and preparing the player for college. Maybe I should consider other aspects, which is why I started the thread.

DA/ECNL level coaches are not motivators. They want players who are self motivated and do the work to improve on their own. If your player needs this motivation then DA or ECNL is not for her. There will be no juggling awards, there will be no homework assignments. The coach will expect highly driven self motivated players to show up at practice ready to work hard and that is the bare minimum that is expected to already exist, they will not waste time cultivating it. Playing time is a premium and that should be all the motivation a kid needs.

I guess that is where the definitions of "best" begin to diverge. I don't necessarily disagree with your comment but the reality is that even Phil Jackson motivated Michael Jordan, resulting in six NBA titles and there are few players in the game who are or were more motivated than MJ. Carli Lloyd's personal trainer helped motivate her to her success in the 2015 World Cup. So although I agree that players must come motivated and most are if they have reached the ECNL/DA level, a really good coach can inspire and motivate. Call it an added bonus if a coach has that ability.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The above is insightful. The "best" in my book is more about the ability of a coach to fully develop a player and motivate that player to improve on their own. Technical improvements and soccer IQ are key at u15 and younger. At u16 and older, I think access to the best competition, expanding the soccer IQ, and preparing the player for college. Maybe I should consider other aspects, which is why I started the thread.

DA/ECNL level coaches are not motivators. They want players who are self motivated and do the work to improve on their own. If your player needs this motivation then DA or ECNL is not for her. There will be no juggling awards, there will be no homework assignments. The coach will expect highly driven self motivated players to show up at practice ready to work hard and that is the bare minimum that is expected to already exist, they will not waste time cultivating it. Playing time is a premium and that should be all the motivation a kid needs.

Anonymous wrote:I wouldn’t exclude the general “fun” factor for girls either. My DD has been on 3 not so great teams in a row and I think it’s definitely taken a toll on her soccer outlook. Good coaching is obviously important but comradeship and team chemistry definitely play a huge role in development too, if only looking at the impact on a player’s motivation to improve.

Anonymous wrote:The above is insightful. The "best" in my book is more about the ability of a coach to fully develop a player and motivate that player to improve on their own. Technical improvements and soccer IQ are key at u15 and younger. At u16 and older, I think access to the best competition, expanding the soccer IQ, and preparing the player for college. Maybe I should consider other aspects, which is why I started the thread.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote: How we would all love to be able to answer this question...

take for instance the older girls coach who was selected coach of the year by whatever organization, his successful team had significant recruits last year. I’d wonder how many starters were with that same organization at u13, u14, and even u15.

Since it appears many players at the older age groups didnt make a move to DA due to college recruiting issues creates an even murkier pool. Are those ECNL coaches just at the right place, right time?

I get the feeling that the older girls coaching staffs have to be very very good at recruiting. What does that imply for you?

I think that is a fair question. Having seen the coach in question in action (Bethesda Cup), he does a great job of teaching the players how to play the game and other coaches respect his abilities at that level but I don't know how well that coach develops players but maybe his role is different at this stage. This gets back to why I asked for the best coaches at U15 and under and U16 and older.

Slightly disagree on whether this "recruiting" question is fair one, at least as it is being framed above by the PP. For starters, I think we'd all agree that coaches of the top team at every club would like to add a player that is objectively better than those currently on the roster. Doesn't matter if we're talking about a coach at a rec team, a mid-level travel team, a good travel team not in ECNL or DA, or any of the ECNL or DA teams: If a coach of any of those teams knows of a talented player who is unhappy at their current team and is considering a switch, then why wouldn't the coach reach out and "recruit" the player to his/her team? I don't think this is a bad thing or bad attribute of any of those coaches.

More importantly, I think this "Club [fill in the blank] just recruits/fails to develop their own players" accusation gets unfairly leveled at the older age brackets of the original ECNL teams (e.g., McLean, FCV, BSC, MD United), before DA started and before new teams were added to ECNL. The PP above expressly makes this point about an older age group. Yet, until 2 years ago, if you accept the premise that the ECNL teams were the most "elite" in the area, then McLean, FCV, BSC, MD United were the only game in town if you had a daughter who wanted to play on one of the most elite teams in the area. It is not fair to criticize any of those original ECNL club's ability to "develop" their own players, just because a good player from, for example, SAC Blue, Loudoun Red, Arlington Red, etc. decided to join the ECNL team at FCV, McLean, BSC, etc. After all, most parents of U8s and U9s pick a club that is "good" and is convenient to where they live. It is not until soccer gets more serious at the ECNL ages that parents (generally speaking) are more willing to drive further distances to have their kids play for a club that gives their child a better platform than their current club. And that is exactly what used to happen with parents of kids who were at the Loudoun's of the world, but wanted their kids to play in the ECNL. Yet, the PP seems to imply that McLean, BSC, etc. are bad programs because their U18/19 ECNL team, for example, is not comprised entirely of girls who started at those clubs in the U8 program.

So while I think it is unfair to criticize the older age brackets at those clubs for recruiting, I think it is fair to look at a couple of things now that the game has changed with the DA teams and the newly added ECNL teams.

First, for the original ECNL clubs and their older age group teams (i.e., those that were primarily formed when ECNL was the only game in town), how have those clubs and coaches developed those girls? How many college commitments are they getting in those older age groups? What is the quality of the colleges they are attending? Are there any YNT or national ID camp girls on their rosters and, if so, how long have they been with the club? For example, if a YNT girl switched clubs as a U15 or older, then that may be a sign that she was not happy with her prior coach, her development at that prior club, etc. On the other hand, a YNT player who has stayed with her current club for several years is presumably happy with her club, coach and development there.

Second, I think you should look at the two youngest age groups for all of the ECNL and DA clubs, since the 2006 and 2005 age groups were the first to experience the dilution from the DA teams. On those 2006 and 2005 teams, how many players were recruited from outside the club vs. developed internally, and how are those teams doing at the 2006 and 2005 age levels. Obviously, this is not applicable for a new DA team like Spirit or a new ECNL team like Loudoun, but it is definitely applicable to teams like FCV, McLean, BSC, etc. and might give you some sense of how that club is developing its girls in this new, more competitive, talent-diluted market. One could argue that, if a team is struggling at the 2006 and 2005 age groups, then perhaps that is a sign that the club does not develop as well from within, and was more dependent on recruiting to achieve success with their teams.

With all of that said, I completely agree with the PP's excellent observation about DA and the new ECNL team creating an "even murkier pool." It will be very interesting to see how the various ECNL and DA clubs and coaches are regarded in 4-5 years from now, after the newer ECNL teams like Loudoun, or newer DA teams like Arlington, have had some time to try to stop the historical talent drain from their U12s, retain those players in their ECNL/DA programs, and then try to develop them. It will also be interesting to see the impact Spirit's DA teams will have in the area over the next 4-5 years, now that their new leadership seems to have doubled down on their DA programs and after they have had some time to try to correct some of the issues that plague any new club. And lastly, I'm very curious to see how the original teams like McLean, FCV, BSC and MD United handle the next 4-5 years. It is definitely an interesting time for all of the ECNL and DA clubs.

Very insightful. Thanks for sharing. Definitely worth considering.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote: How we would all love to be able to answer this question...

take for instance the older girls coach who was selected coach of the year by whatever organization, his successful team had significant recruits last year. I’d wonder how many starters were with that same organization at u13, u14, and even u15.

Since it appears many players at the older age groups didnt make a move to DA due to college recruiting issues creates an even murkier pool. Are those ECNL coaches just at the right place, right time?

I get the feeling that the older girls coaching staffs have to be very very good at recruiting. What does that imply for you?

I think that is a fair question. Having seen the coach in question in action (Bethesda Cup), he does a great job of teaching the players how to play the game and other coaches respect his abilities at that level but I don't know how well that coach develops players but maybe his role is different at this stage. This gets back to why I asked for the best coaches at U15 and under and U16 and older.

Slightly disagree on whether this "recruiting" question is fair one, at least as it is being framed above by the PP. For starters, I think we'd all agree that coaches of the top team at every club would like to add a player that is objectively better than those currently on the roster. Doesn't matter if we're talking about a coach at a rec team, a mid-level travel team, a good travel team not in ECNL or DA, or any of the ECNL or DA teams: If a coach of any of those teams knows of a talented player who is unhappy at their current team and is considering a switch, then why wouldn't the coach reach out and "recruit" the player to his/her team? I don't think this is a bad thing or bad attribute of any of those coaches.

More importantly, I think this "Club [fill in the blank] just recruits/fails to develop their own players" accusation gets unfairly leveled at the older age brackets of the original ECNL teams (e.g., McLean, FCV, BSC, MD United), before DA started and before new teams were added to ECNL. The PP above expressly makes this point about an older age group. Yet, until 2 years ago, if you accept the premise that the ECNL teams were the most "elite" in the area, then McLean, FCV, BSC, MD United were the only game in town if you had a daughter who wanted to play on one of the most elite teams in the area. It is not fair to criticize any of those original ECNL club's ability to "develop" their own players, just because a good player from, for example, SAC Blue, Loudoun Red, Arlington Red, etc. decided to join the ECNL team at FCV, McLean, BSC, etc. After all, most parents of U8s and U9s pick a club that is "good" and is convenient to where they live. It is not until soccer gets more serious at the ECNL ages that parents (generally speaking) are more willing to drive further distances to have their kids play for a club that gives their child a better platform than their current club. And that is exactly what used to happen with parents of kids who were at the Loudoun's of the world, but wanted their kids to play in the ECNL. Yet, the PP seems to imply that McLean, BSC, etc. are bad programs because their U18/19 ECNL team, for example, is not comprised entirely of girls who started at those clubs in the U8 program.

So while I think it is unfair to criticize the older age brackets at those clubs for recruiting, I think it is fair to look at a couple of things now that the game has changed with the DA teams and the newly added ECNL teams.

First, for the original ECNL clubs and their older age group teams (i.e., those that were primarily formed when ECNL was the only game in town), how have those clubs and coaches developed those girls? How many college commitments are they getting in those older age groups? What is the quality of the colleges they are attending? Are there any YNT or national ID camp girls on their rosters and, if so, how long have they been with the club? For example, if a YNT girl switched clubs as a U15 or older, then that may be a sign that she was not happy with her prior coach, her development at that prior club, etc. On the other hand, a YNT player who has stayed with her current club for several years is presumably happy with her club, coach and development there.

Second, I think you should look at the two youngest age groups for all of the ECNL and DA clubs, since the 2006 and 2005 age groups were the first to experience the dilution from the DA teams. On those 2006 and 2005 teams, how many players were recruited from outside the club vs. developed internally, and how are those teams doing at the 2006 and 2005 age levels. Obviously, this is not applicable for a new DA team like Spirit or a new ECNL team like Loudoun, but it is definitely applicable to teams like FCV, McLean, BSC, etc. and might give you some sense of how that club is developing its girls in this new, more competitive, talent-diluted market. One could argue that, if a team is struggling at the 2006 and 2005 age groups, then perhaps that is a sign that the club does not develop as well from within, and was more dependent on recruiting to achieve success with their teams.

With all of that said, I completely agree with the PP's excellent observation about DA and the new ECNL team creating an "even murkier pool." It will be very interesting to see how the various ECNL and DA clubs and coaches are regarded in 4-5 years from now, after the newer ECNL teams like Loudoun, or newer DA teams like Arlington, have had some time to try to stop the historical talent drain from their U12s, retain those players in their ECNL/DA programs, and then try to develop them. It will also be interesting to see the impact Spirit's DA teams will have in the area over the next 4-5 years, now that their new leadership seems to have doubled down on their DA programs and after they have had some time to try to correct some of the issues that plague any new club. And lastly, I'm very curious to see how the original teams like McLean, FCV, BSC and MD United handle the next 4-5 years. It is definitely an interesting time for all of the ECNL and DA clubs.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here. I am amazed at the moronic responses posted. I asked the question because I am interested in learning more and hearing other perspectives. If you don't like the question or can't add anything relevant then go away. Why post? I have found several of the posts informative and helpful. Notice that I have no other agenda other than to hear insights and perspectives. I have not pushed a club or coach or written anything negative about a club or coach. At the end of the day, this is why we have the site so that people can share information. Again, if you are not interested in sharing information then go away. It is simple.

BTW, you don't need to know anything about my kid other than she is of age to enter DA/ECNL and is considering both leagues. Again, if you don't have anythig to add then go away.

Finally, I have asked for suggestions of non-ECNL/DA teams and coaches.

People HAVE provided honest answers as well as perspective. I am sorry that they are not what you want to hear but you been granted every courtesy you deserve. You have also been told that in order to provide better answers more information is needed from you. It is not that complicated. State the age and clubs and you will may get meaningful answers.

And you have been told by the people you have asked that our knowing the age is important. Perhaps people know what age groups a coach will end up with that you hadn't considered. This is a two way street my friend and frankly you are the one who is not getting the answers to questions that only you want. The fact of the matter is we don't care enough about your kid to tell you more than you have already been told without more info. Where you end up means more to you than any of us so either follow the advice that has been given with the best of intent or stfu.

You are still posting. I have greatly benefited from the relevant information. If you don't have anything to add, go away! You are exact;y why people though this threat would not be productive. I started the thread and I have found it productive despite your nonsense. Again, go away!

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here. I am amazed at the moronic responses posted. I asked the question because I am interested in learning more and hearing other perspectives. If you don't like the question or can't add anything relevant then go away. Why post? I have found several of the posts informative and helpful. Notice that I have no other agenda other than to hear insights and perspectives. I have not pushed a club or coach or written anything negative about a club or coach. At the end of the day, this is why we have the site so that people can share information. Again, if you are not interested in sharing information then go away. It is simple.

BTW, you don't need to know anything about my kid other than she is of age to enter DA/ECNL and is considering both leagues. Again, if you don't have anythig to add then go away.

Finally, I have asked for suggestions of non-ECNL/DA teams and coaches.

People HAVE provided honest answers as well as perspective. I am sorry that they are not what you want to hear but you been granted every courtesy you deserve. You have also been told that in order to provide better answers more information is needed from you. It is not that complicated. State the age and clubs and you will may get meaningful answers.

And you have been told by the people you have asked that our knowing the age is important. Perhaps people know what age groups a coach will end up with that you hadn't considered. This is a two way street my friend and frankly you are the one who is not getting the answers to questions that only you want. The fact of the matter is we don't care enough about your kid to tell you more than you have already been told without more info. Where you end up means more to you than any of us so either follow the advice that has been given with the best of intent or stfu.