My friends teach in HS and they have heard nothing about vocational education in our district. Maybe because it is in a wealthier part of the county? They have plenty of students who struggle and have struggled for years. Many of them drop out but some of them don't. They end up with a diploma and then nothing. If they do go to community college, they end up stuck in remedial classes and drop out (with student loans to pay back). They are usually held back at some point in their school career because they can't keep up and these kids aren't taking the SATs for the most point. Without an IEP, they can't get accommodations for testing. If they don't go to college, they end up working in a low wage job. These teachers are bombarded even more than we are in ES with the whole "college ready" nonsense. It's over the top IMO.

Anonymous wrote:OP again. My students who go through school have not fared well. No IEP and differentiated instruction can only go so far. When we are told all students must be college ready, they actually expect that all students should go be able to go to college. How well can a student fare in college who cannot keep up with grade level instruction? I really wish there were more options for students instead of “college or nothing.”

OP, I do not mean this as criticism, but as a first grade teacher, how aware are you of what high schools in your school system are specifically doing as they advise these students about life after HS?

Our HS is well aware that college is not everyone's destination. Yes, there is a huge amount of "there is a right college for everyone" discussion, but that does not mean that students are all being pushed to shoot for the same types of colleges. At HS, the emphasis is on either finding the best college for the individual student (which means not pointing kids with learning problems or lower IQ toward colleges that will swamp them) AND there's also an emphasis on what used to be called vocational education. It still exists in public high schools though you won't hear a lot about it outside the schools --but families whose kids are better off with a vocational component absolutely know it's there.

Anonymous wrote:The problem with a elementary school teachers trying to track kids who aren't smart to a non-college track is they're just not very good at it. There are a lot of very successful people out there including people like Charles Schwab whose elementary school teachers determined they were stupid and would never amount to anything. It's not your place to decide what you will/won't teach a child. It's fine to lament the lack of vocational training or inclusion of the arts, but you don't get to decide who gets tracked where and most certainly not in elementary school.

OP here. When did I ever say it was my decision? I lament the fact that students who are determined to have a low IQ yet no disability get no extra help. These same students come up in SST every single year and every single year, nothing much is done to help them because they do not have a disability.

The problem with a elementary school teachers trying to track kids who aren't smart to a non-college track is they're just not very good at it. There are a lot of very successful people out there including people like Charles Schwab whose elementary school teachers determined they were stupid and would never amount to anything. It's not your place to decide what you will/won't teach a child. It's fine to lament the lack of vocational training or inclusion of the arts, but you don't get to decide who gets tracked where and most certainly not in elementary school.

Anonymous wrote:I think the world should follow Germany's example of free University to anyone who qualifies, but that only the smartest 5% qualify - beginning with a test in 6th grade (and no second chances for failing any course).

The rest are not fit for professional careers; they can be provided training in vocational services, as salespeople, or factory work - which is also needed. This system works perfectly.

People living in this area love that idea because they feel that if they were in Germany, they’d be in that top 5 percent and wouldn’t be relegated to a life of wearing orange overalls and driving a truck

Anonymous wrote:I think the world should follow Germany's example of free University to anyone who qualifies, but that only the smartest 5% qualify - beginning with a test in 6th grade (and no second chances for failing any course).

The rest are not fit for professional careers; they can be provided training in vocational services, as salespeople, or factory work - which is also needed. This system works perfectly.

Sure glad I don't live in Europe as I would have never had the opportunity to have the valuable college education I received. I was a very average student in HS- VERY. Got my shit together at community college and transferred to a 4yr.

I think the world should follow Germany's example of free University to anyone who qualifies, but that only the smartest 5% qualify - beginning with a test in 6th grade (and no second chances for failing any course).

The rest are not fit for professional careers; they can be provided training in vocational services, as salespeople, or factory work - which is also needed. This system works perfectly.

Anonymous wrote:Yes, I know 100-105 is average (whatever average means).
The problem is the kids who are below average- yet not “intellectually disabled”. For example, the kids who would score between 70-85. ( they probably are tested at some point to see if they qualify for special ed). The bad news is that they don’t (absent a qualifying leaning disability). So what happens is they struggle in school and get frustrated and turned off to school....but the “college for all” mentality pushed by the administrators really harms these kids who do need more help, more ideas for a career path, etc.
Hope this makes sense.

My kid has a high average IQ (or whatever 110 is) and a learning disability. Even with the help/IEP, etc, he still struggles in school and is in real danger of "turning off." I'd love some non-traditional options but it does seem to be 4 year college or bust.