Anonymous wrote:What part of the house does your DH clean? If it is all on you, and he is wanting a minimalist house without the work of it- then he is delusional.

I agree that couple therapy is due and he needs to step up with 50% of the cleaning OR get over his reluctance to outside paid help. You also need to hire an organizer to help you get rid of all the old kids stuff and organize the rest.

OP here: Yes, DH is delusional! Thank you! I’m the one who wants to stay married and not seethe and resent DH, so I’m trying to solicit how others might feel. I seek to understand. I also recognize I’m delusional...I just don’t “see”the clutter as a problem.

He does nearly nothing around the house as related to daily chores. One of our biggest fights was over all the work a new baby requires.

Me: Crying and yelling because dishwasher was loaded but wasn’t run and I have no clean bottles, after I asked him to do the dishes. I felt like I had to do everything
He: Why are you mad...I’m doing everything you tell me.
Me: If you can’t figure out the baby needs to eat again soon and needs a clean bottle, washed pump flange, etc., then I am just too tired to even begin to explain. Run the goddamn dishwasher on half cycle instead of waiting for a full load.

Anonymous wrote:This. You're only thinking of the most extreme cases of hoarding. And since its not that bad, you think it's okay. Obviously, no one can see into your home but the level of the clutter, you're describing is excessive and possibly on the mild end of the hoarder scale.

So definitely therapy for you, possibly a regular cleaning service, and your dh should definitely also be doing his part. For example, if having laundry sit on the sofa all week really bothers him, he can be responsible for doing the laundry and putting it away.

OP here: Takeaways so far include reduce buying and get cleaning service (I know enough that you’ve got to clean/dexlutter before the cleaning service comes) as part of an overall decluttering effort. I really need to understand how the other side is feeling. DH is not a talker.

Just getting a baseline: So a model in a magazine is understoood universally as an impossible standard and no one walking around looks like that (withiut just looking good being a full-rime job). I don’t wear any makeup unless I have a presentation t work. I similarly assumed that photos in House Beautiful and home blogs are the same...an impossible unrealistic standard that some do choose to chase. I assumed it was fake nd similarikynimprison women in a trap of their own making. BTW, no one else keeps laundry on the sofa? I guess I am ashamed if it’s so out of the norm.

I feel like I got clutter but little to no crud (I hope that’s not delusional but just my threshold). It’s kinda easy to avoid crud because no food is allowed anywhere outside the kitchen unless it’s a party or movie night (popcorn) and I’d know I’d need to wipe down, etc. My ongoing assumption that clean clutter (fresh laundry on sofa) would be “acceptable because we’re busy” is not working, because he’s stressed about it. I guess my natural tolerance is different from DH. I think he is feeling burned out as am I.

Regarding chores, DH is mechanically inclined and (competently) repairs and installs things (washing machine, 40 feet of kitchen drain plumbing, new front door, apron front kitchen sink, pot lights, hardwood flooring) and DH is a helpful person (shovels for elderly neighbors, checks nd replace their roof flashing, clean out gutters, etc.). We both generally have been beloved by our elderly neighbors but they make a point to tell me i’m lucky to have him esp after he’s fixed something for them. I join him for shoveling and some projects (been staying on sidelines more now that there is a toddler to watch) but I always stayed off of the roof. ? I also have big projects: installed mosaic marble floor tile in the bathroom, installed garage elfa on three walls, breastfed DD and DS until 18-20 months (stopped now), etc. These big projects are great and feel like accomplishments but it’s the daily stuff that’s hard. There’s stuff you have[b] to do everyday: plan and buy food, feed kids, wash out pumping gear and bottles (stopped now), wash toddler’s poop butt, walk dogs, have enough clean clothes (my solution was multiples of same clothing), etc. I like to be chill and happy and I feel like most housework sucks away your time and no one appreciates it. If we do need to clean, let’s make it a family activity with everyone. And really it’s a self-imposed standard...why choose that over taking DS to the park? I said I wanted to take kiddos to visit family in Orlando during President Day weekend and he said I should stay home to clean. (He hates traveling.)

My neatnik roommate during grad school for many years notes, when asked, that I was terrible at the daily chores but rocked on the periodic big projects: seasonal detailing of bathroom, fridge, ceiling fans, tile grout; cleaning showerhead mineral buildup; reorg contents of kitchen drawers and pantry, etc. how can I get DH’s recognition that the cooking (groceries, budgeting) and childcare are big projects too?

I’d like to hear more from posters who had insight from being messy/cluttered/hoarding or living or experiencing hoarding from a DH or DW. Maybe more detail on what frustration DH is feeling. I feel like daily pickup/clean up is a no-win situation. Why vacuum everyday when once a week (hmmm...fessing up to every other week) works just as well? We do wear slippers or house Uggs at home. Literally, what is a good mopping/vacuuming frequency? Is it okay to keep the clean laundry that we on th sofa in four baskets at the foot of the master bed? DH says it’s an eye sore. I feel like there is no winning. My coworker vacuums twice daily, because she likes to see the vacuum lines, but she’s fessed up that she knows she’s the crazy one.

I think my threshold will be to get those rooms to their official purpose (park second car in garage, guest room will be guest ready, dining table will be ready for possibility of dinner guests at short notice, etc.) and then if that’s not good enough (re: baskets in bedroom), then I’m done.

Thanks.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here: We just had Christmas parties and gingerbread housemaking in December and the overall cleanup effect is lingering. The sofa has been clear but will eventually succumb. I wanted to say this because people seem fixated.

I’m describing known problems. What is confusing to me is the daily influx...how do you deal...it’s not the same laundry but a different, clean load that comes through. It doesn’t always sit there but gets folded and put away in a day or so, but like a beach, an observer can’t always tell it’s new sand...

YOU HAVE NOT CLEANED UP FROM GINGERBREAD HOUSEMAKING?!?!?!?!

WHAT
THE
F***

+1. You have a problem. Get help.

Assign a day or time for a particular chore. For example, laundry. I'm in charge of laundry in my hh. I normally do laundry on Sunday. Everything gets washed, folded, and put away on Sunday.


Always clean up after a mess as soon as it's reasonably possible. It's always easier to clean up along the way than to let messes build up and have to do a big intensive clean up. If you spill/drop something on the floor, clean it up asap. If it's a messy activity like gingerbread house-making, right after the activity is finished. Btw, since this is an activity for your kids, they should be the ones cleaning up or at least, helping if they're really young.

Anonymous wrote:is it worth it to stay married if the expectations for cleaning the house falls on the wife, who works outside the home 100%? Let's just say WOHM has clutter issues (2 kids (one under 2, lots of toys, tons of clothes) also a hoarder level 1 (can't use room for intended purpose, storing boxes in garage and basement), and DH considers himself a neat nick.

DH said I demonstrate that I don't care about his feelings whenever I go out to visit family instead of taking care of the house. DH considers hiring ng help to be amoral and lazy.

No hoarding. Team DH. I would not be okay with a room (or rooms) in my house not being used for their intended purpose due to hoarding. Fix that $hit now.

I think if your DH is bothered by the laundry on the couch, then one of his DAILY tasks should be to run a load, dry a load, and put away a load. He should also be in charge of changing and washing all the bedding and towels as that is a related task.

OP, I really feel for you. I completely understand how it feels when all your time is sucked into the boring daily grind of chores while your DH does the more interesting large projects and pats himself on the back for it.

What does your DH do for the daily grind? Maybe ask him to take on more of it. He needs a set task that is his. My DH is responsible for cooking breakfast and cleaning up from dinner, every single night. Tell him you cannot declutter if he does not do a fair share of the daily chores.

And definitely get a cleaning service. You can have them fold laundry as well. If you can just get the kitchen and one bathroom under control, they can clean the kitchen and bathroom and launder all the bedding and put it back on the beds every other week for about $100. That would really help you.

Like your DH I hate traveling and strongly desire an orderly ansduncluttered home. One reason I hate it traveling is that it produces more clutter. The kids will bring back more stuff, the suitcases will be half-unpacked all over the place for a week, and the time spent planning, packing, and unpacking will take time away from what I most want-- getting our home under control. See the connection. You are both burned out and while travel may be fun, it is also exhausting and a lot of work.

Why are you folding so much? I keep the kids 'daily cothes in baskets, one per kid. I put sheets right back on the beds and towels right back on the hooks. No folding needed.

Anonymous wrote:OP here: We just had Christmas parties and gingerbread housemaking in December and the overall cleanup effect is lingering. The sofa has been clear but will eventually succumb. I wanted to say this because people seem fixated.

I’m describing known problems. What is confusing to me is the daily influx...how do you deal...it’s not the same laundry but a different, clean load that comes through. It doesn’t always sit there but gets folded and put away in a day or so, but like a beach, an observer can’t always tell it’s new sand...

YOU HAVE NOT CLEANED UP FROM GINGERBREAD HOUSEMAKING?!?!?!?!

WHAT
THE
F***

Anonymous wrote:OP here: We just had Christmas parties and gingerbread housemaking in December and the overall cleanup effect is lingering. The sofa has been clear but will eventually succumb. I wanted to say this because people seem fixated.

I’m describing known problems. What is confusing to me is the daily influx...how do you deal...it’s not the same laundry but a different, clean load that comes through. It doesn’t always sit there but gets folded and put away in a day or so, but like a beach, an observer can’t always tell it’s new sand...

I deal with it by having a set routine that I plan in advance. For example, I surface clean the bathroom on Wednesday nights because that is when the kids take their bath. Then all the bath towels go in the washer that night. I always start laundry on Friday nights so that I can fold Saturday AM. A routine makes things much easier because you don't have to think about it. I also make getting rid of stuff a high priority.

You might like the website FlyLady. It is for scattered home executives.

I doubt OP is a hoarder if her house can be cleaned up to host Christmas parties.. You need a lot of clean surface to make gingerbread houses.

We have three kids with sports uniforms etc and my DH wear two sets of clothes every day, and I have a 7 year old who still pees the bed at least once a week. Its a lot of g-d laundry. If there was a sofa near our laundry room, it would be covered in clean laundry too. We have a small laundry room that is usually full of several baskets of clean clothes. It drives DH crazy and he picks out his own items to put away, then leaves the baskets full of kids clothes, sheets, towels, dish towels, etc. then complains about piles of laundry. Its not the same stuff just sitting here, the laundry is running in a continuous loop of drudgery.

I'm sympathizing, OP. It sounds like he does not appreciate how much work does into the daily grind of multiple small children. Almost everyone WOHM I know with kids has a weekly house cleaner.

OP here: We just had Christmas parties and gingerbread housemaking in December and the overall cleanup effect is lingering. The sofa has been clear but will eventually succumb. I wanted to say this because people seem fixated.

I’m describing known problems. What is confusing to me is the daily influx...how do you deal...it’s not the same laundry but a different, clean load that comes through. It doesn’t always sit there but gets folded and put away in a day or so, but like a beach, an observer can’t always tell it’s new sand...

My sister is a hoarder and it's impossible to help with household chores as there is literally no place to put anything down. Her problem is growing into the yard. You have to deal with the hoarding before you can expect him to help clean up.

I hope all the people being mean to OP all have three kids, a full time job, and 100% childcare cooking and cleaning responsibilities at home.

I'm a clutterer and dh is the neat one. Not hoarding but I have a hard time putting things away and surfaces have stuff on them. I also hate doing laundry but have lots of clothes so we compromised. I cook and keep the kitchen and dining room table clean (we eat dinner there). Try not to buy too many clothes for me or toddler dd.
Dh has taken over all laundry including ironing as he likes being meticulous about it and folding etc while watching silly movies. and we hired a weekly cleaner to mop and vacuum and that keeps me motivated to keep the surfaces clutter free as well.
We both woh and I make a little more than he does and now our house is clean, not quite magazine pristine but presentable to any guests at any time including my MIl or my mother.