Anonymous wrote:But isn't an affair kind of like child abuse when it harm's the betrayed partner deeply and indirectly the children too. I dont think they can escape the repercussions

People who think this are victims in every scenario in their lives IMO.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What could be more selfish than breaking a vow you made to someone else; a vow that many people make in front of family and friends in a house of God?

Being a non-caring, emotionless fridge robot is more selfish. I have seen spouses like that, they break the vow just as much as the cheater does.

No, they don't.

Yes they do. What are you supposed to do, just suffer silently because of some words you said a long time ago?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The heart wants what the heart wants.

Some years ago there was a beautiful “Vows” story in the NYT. A Mom and a Dad met each other as they dropped their children off at preschool. The two couples became good friends. But, a powerful force, a magnetic attraction drew the Mom and the other Dad together.

They “cheated” because they had to see for themselves if their love was so strong that it was worthwhile to blow up their marriages. “Cheating” allowed them to have their existing marriages to fall back on if this magical love didn’t come through.

But come it did

Everyone is better off. The wonderful couple, of course. The children who get to see a powerful love between two parents. The ex-spouses don’t have to live with the guilt of keeping the two from each other.

Ultimately, some people have earned the right to cheat. If you’ve just made partner in a BigLaw firm, then you almost certainly should start auditioning candidates. Why should you stick with a sweet 6 when your newly elevated status and social profile, coupled with the best possible grooming, clothing and fitness training can earn you nines or even 9.5’s?


Lots of people outgrow their spouses. Who are we to judge their happiness to take a back seat to their spouses, their children, or all of us?

LOL! I remember this Vows column. The couple were so delusional that they actually thought they came off well, so well that they wanted to publicize their love to the world. The reporter and the rest of us were appropriately disgusted. Anyone have a link?

https://www.nytimes.com/2010/12/19/fashion/weddings/19vows.html

My kids are going to look at me and know that I am flawed and not perfect, but also deeply in love,” she said. “We’re going to have a big, noisy, rich life, with more love and more people in it.”
[b]
UUGGGHHHH! They think they cute...this is beyond selfish.....wonder how they are doing now?? Maybe man has moved on since woman is now near 50??
They want it ALL and have the money to do it......

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What could be more selfish than breaking a vow you made to someone else; a vow that many people make in front of family and friends in a house of God?

Being a non-caring, emotionless fridge robot is more selfish. I have seen spouses like that, they break the vow just as much as the cheater does.

No, they don't.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The heart wants what the heart wants.

Some years ago there was a beautiful “Vows” story in the NYT. A Mom and a Dad met each other as they dropped their children off at preschool. The two couples became good friends. But, a powerful force, a magnetic attraction drew the Mom and the other Dad together.

They “cheated” because they had to see for themselves if their love was so strong that it was worthwhile to blow up their marriages. “Cheating” allowed them to have their existing marriages to fall back on if this magical love didn’t come through.

But come it did

Everyone is better off. The wonderful couple, of course. The children who get to see a powerful love between two parents. The ex-spouses don’t have to live with the guilt of keeping the two from each other.

Ultimately, some people have earned the right to cheat. If you’ve just made partner in a BigLaw firm, then you almost certainly should start auditioning candidates. Why should you stick with a sweet 6 when your newly elevated status and social profile, coupled with the best possible grooming, clothing and fitness training can earn you nines or even 9.5’s?

Lots of people outgrow their spouses. Who are we to judge their happiness to take a back seat to their spouses, their children, or all of us?

LOL! I remember this Vows column. The couple were so delusional that they actually thought they came off well, so well that they wanted to publicize their love to the world. The reporter and the rest of us were appropriately disgusted. Anyone have a link?

https://www.nytimes.com/2010/12/19/fashion/weddings/19vows.html

I wonder if they are still married.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t think cheaters want a divorce. I think most want to keep their families. Other cultures see affairs differently. The French, Chinese and Finnish for example. It is not child abuse and it is selfish but often it is the result of the overall dynamic of the partnership. It is also selfish for a woman to have a child when her husband doesn’t want one. A decision that is very impactful. The scenario I see is that people have kids and their relationship and priorities shift, a spouse feels neglected and seeks another relationship.

It is very, very easy for a man to avoid having a child if he doesn't want one. Women are not succubi, tackling men and stealing their sperm.

Women lie about birth control to have an oops baby! Don’t kid yourself.

. Don’t leave sperm in places where babies grow. Problem solved.

Anonymous wrote:There are multiple forms of selfish in a marriage, cheating and sexless marriages, are just a few forms of it.

Our society stigmatizes divorce to the point that seeking one is emotionally, mentally, and financially cost prohibitive. I would hate to be in either scenario.

Our society? No, that's your soon-to-be-ex who makes divorce expensive.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The heart wants what the heart wants.

Some years ago there was a beautiful “Vows” story in the NYT. A Mom and a Dad met each other as they dropped their children off at preschool. The two couples became good friends. But, a powerful force, a magnetic attraction drew the Mom and the other Dad together.

They “cheated” because they had to see for themselves if their love was so strong that it was worthwhile to blow up their marriages. “Cheating” allowed them to have their existing marriages to fall back on if this magical love didn’t come through.

But come it did

Everyone is better off. The wonderful couple, of course. The children who get to see a powerful love between two parents. The ex-spouses don’t have to live with the guilt of keeping the two from each other.

Ultimately, some people have earned the right to cheat. If you’ve just made partner in a BigLaw firm, then you almost certainly should start auditioning candidates. Why should you stick with a sweet 6 when your newly elevated status and social profile, coupled with the best possible grooming, clothing and fitness training can earn you nines or even 9.5’s?

Lots of people outgrow their spouses. Who are we to judge their happiness to take a back seat to their spouses, their children, or all of us?

LOL! I remember this Vows column. The couple were so delusional that they actually thought they came off well, so well that they wanted to publicize their love to the world. The reporter and the rest of us were appropriately disgusted. Anyone have a link?

https://www.nytimes.com/2010/12/19/fashion/weddings/19vows.html

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What could be more selfish than breaking a vow you made to someone else; a vow that many people make in front of family and friends in a house of God?

Being a non-caring, emotionless fridge robot is more selfish. I have seen spouses like that, they break the vow just as much as the cheater does.

I don't think that is more selfish. Because in cases like that (drastic change in personality or ability to connect with others), there are mental health or trauma circumstances in play. Something outside of the person usually contributes to that.

The urge to cheat, however, is a little less nuanced. "My dick was tingling, so I put it in someone."

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t think cheaters want a divorce. I think most want to keep their families. Other cultures see affairs differently. The French, Chinese and Finnish for example. It is not child abuse and it is selfish but often it is the result of the overall dynamic of the partnership. It is also selfish for a woman to have a child when her husband doesn’t want one. A decision that is very impactful. The scenario I see is that people have kids and their relationship and priorities shift, a spouse feels neglected and seeks another relationship.

It is very, very easy for a man to avoid having a child if he doesn't want one. Women are not succubi, tackling men and stealing their sperm.

Women lie about birth control to have an oops baby! Don’t kid yourself.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t think cheaters want a divorce. I think most want to keep their families. Other cultures see affairs differently. The French, Chinese and Finnish for example. It is not child abuse and it is selfish but often it is the result of the overall dynamic of the partnership. It is also selfish for a woman to have a child when her husband doesn’t want one. A decision that is very impactful. The scenario I see is that people have kids and their relationship and priorities shift, a spouse feels neglected and seeks another relationship.

It is very, very easy for a man to avoid having a child if he doesn't want one. Women are not succubi, tackling men and stealing their sperm.

And the same with women. Women learn very early on how not to have a child . . . its called birth control. Having a child, without your partner's approval, is the ultimate in selfishness.

Anonymous wrote:I don’t think cheaters want a divorce. I think most want to keep their families. Other cultures see affairs differently. The French, Chinese and Finnish for example. It is not child abuse and it is selfish but often it is the result of the overall dynamic of the partnership. It is also selfish for a woman to have a child when her husband doesn’t want one. A decision that is very impactful. The scenario I see is that people have kids and their relationship and priorities shift, a spouse feels neglected and seeks another relationship.

It is very, very easy for a man to avoid having a child if he doesn't want one. Women are not succubi, tackling men and stealing their sperm.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What if it's just sex? Who cares? People get all worked up over cheating for nothing.

The cheated-on spouse cares. Otherwise it would have been an open marriage.

If the cheated-on spouse has been rejecting sex, clearly they do not care.
I would say an affair is equally selfish as a sexless marriage. Neither is worse, they are exactly the same degree of selfishness.

Why can’t the potential cheater say “hey I don’t want to live aa sexless marriage anymore. We need to get a divorce if we can’t have sex.”

Why go through that hassle? Unilateral decisions have already been made about intimacy, no need for that to change or needless threats to be made.

Unbelievable. A spouse might not have as much sex as before for whatever reason and he or she as tbe non-cheating spouse have tbe same blame as tbe cheating spouse. My wife of over 18 years can just tell me - hey, I need more sex. If there is an issue, we can axdress it and not go get an AP.

Did you miss the opening sentence where “the cheated-on spouse has been rejecting sex”? That is your wife telling you she needs more sex, and you telling her “No”.

Odd how people do not know this is abuse in every sense of the word. I have seen this and in each couple the denier thinks they still should be adored by the other. They are too selfish to say I dont want to have sex with you because they are scared to start over and most likely know they will not do any better in the dating market.

You are manipulating the meaning or rather, interpreting "the cheated-on spouse has been rejecting sex ?" The non-cheating spouse is not saying he/she does not want sex. They are minimizing the times of sexual intercourse with their spouse. The cheating spouse is interpreting it as "abuse." How can you say the non-cheating spouse wants to still be adored by the other. For myself, my DW wants to have sex a few times a month but I do not believe she is abusing me when I tell here I want her once a day and she denies it. I married my DW for no matter what. What does having her start over in the dating market have to do with the real issue of affairs as selfish and specifically, on the non-cheating spouse.

The subject thread is about selfishness, specifically asking if affairs are the ultimate selfishness. The answer is No: rejecting sex (to an abnormal level) is equally selfish as having an affair. I would say that if your wife used to share your once per day interest, and daily sex was part of your dating and courtship and early marriage, then later on she dropped down to twice per month, yet she still expects you to be faithful to her alone.... this makes her very selfish.

There are multiple forms of selfish in a marriage, cheating and sexless marriages, are just a few forms of it.

Our society stigmatizes divorce to the point that seeking one is emotionally, mentally, and financially cost prohibitive. I would hate to be in either scenario.

[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]What if it's just sex? Who cares? People get all worked up over cheating for nothing.[/quote]


The cheated-on spouse cares. Otherwise it would have been an open marriage.
[/quote]

If the cheated-on spouse has been rejecting sex, clearly they do not care.
I would say an affair is equally selfish as a sexless marriage. Neither is worse, they are exactly the same degree of selfishness.[/quote]

Why can’t the potential cheater say “hey I don’t want to live aa sexless marriage anymore. We need to get a divorce if we can’t have sex.”[/quote]

Why go through that hassle? Unilateral decisions have already been made about intimacy, no need for that to change or needless threats to be made.[/quote]

Unbelievable. A spouse might not have as much sex as before for whatever reason and he or she as tbe non-cheating spouse have tbe same blame as tbe cheating spouse. My wife of over 18 years can just tell me - hey, I need more sex. If there is an issue, we can axdress it and not go get an AP.[/quote]
[b]

Did you miss the opening sentence where “the cheated-on spouse has been rejecting sex”? That is your wife telling you she needs more sex, and you telling her “No”. [/b]
[/quote]

Odd how people do not know this is abuse in every sense of the word. I have seen this and in each couple the denier thinks they still should be adored by the other. They are too selfish to say I dont want to have sex with you because they are scared to start over and most likely know they will not do any better in the dating market. [/quote]

You are manipulating the meaning or rather, interpreting "the cheated-on spouse has been rejecting sex ?" The non-cheating spouse is not saying he/she does not want sex. They are minimizing the times of sexual intercourse with their spouse. The cheating spouse is interpreting it as "abuse." How can you say the non-cheating spouse wants to still be adored by the other. For myself, my DW wants to have sex a few times a month but I do not believe she is abusing me when I tell here I want her once a day and she denies it. I married my DW for no matter what. What does having her start over in the dating market have to do with the real issue of affairs as selfish and specifically, on the non-cheating spouse.