77 fraudsters out of 492 total students. Means 15% of the entire school are illegal. And OSSE gets blamed for that...?!

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Post editorial board is completely out of touch. Did you see their endorsements in the last election? Dionne? Really?

Agreed all this drama whipped up by the media. Sure OSSE shouldn't have done better damage control but they haven't been putting out the press statements. You all claim you want OSSE to investigate, then when they do you complain. No hope! Sure I'd be annoyed if legit and asked to re-provide evidence of residency, but if told that the documents I'd submitted are not what should have been accepted (would not have passed at other schools) then I'd resubmit. Why would I sue, families who were investigated only had to because their were issues with their paperwork when audited, it was not the whole school. If the law says these documents are required for residency to attend DCPS school, why are we going to make an EXCEPTION for Ellington. I had to go through hoops at my child's school, so that would be unfair. You folks all need to take a chill pill and don't believe the media hype....

OSSE wouldn't have started this process without good reason, and would have been in trouble for not following the leads that led to this investigation. If that had hit the media, that they failed to follow up there would have been even more of an outroar ...

I SENSE THAT THERE ARE A LOT OF TRUMPIAN CLAIMS OF 'WITCH HUNT' AND 'FAKE' ALLEGATIONS BEING HURLED AGAINST OSSE BY FOLKS WHO HAVE EVERY INTEREST IN RESIDENCY FRAUD GOING AWAY AS A NEWS ISSUE. SAD.

Anonymous wrote:Post editorial board is completely out of touch. Did you see their endorsements in the last election? Dionne? Really?

Agreed all this drama whipped up by the media. Sure OSSE shouldn't have done better damage control but they haven't been putting out the press statements. You all claim you want OSSE to investigate, then when they do you complain. No hope! Sure I'd be annoyed if legit and asked to re-provide evidence of residency, but if told that the documents I'd submitted are not what should have been accepted (would not have passed at other schools) then I'd resubmit. Why would I sue, families who were investigated only had to because their were issues with their paperwork when audited, it was not the whole school. If the law says these documents are required for residency to attend DCPS school, why are we going to make an EXCEPTION for Ellington. I had to go through hoops at my child's school, so that would be unfair. You folks all need to take a chill pill and don't believe the media hype....

OSSE wouldn't have started this process without good reason, and would have been in trouble for not following the leads that led to this investigation. If that had hit the media, that they failed to follow up there would have been even more of an outroar ...

Post editorial board is completely out of touch. Did you see their endorsements in the last election? Dionne? Really?

Washington Post editorial board disagrees with most of you ions/how-did-a-dc-agency-accuse-hundreds-of-fraud--and-get-it-wrong-more-than-half-the-time/2018/11/29/9ba09fc4-f34f-11e8-80d0-f7e1948d55f4_story.html?utm_term=.7bf66cb23421

Excerpts:

"THE DISTRICT’S Office of the State Superintendent of Education announced in May that it had uncovered widespread residency fraud at the Duke Ellington School of the Arts. The explosive claim that nearly 30 percent of the student body lived outside the city tarnished the acclaimed school’s reputation. Parents were sent scrambling, and fundraising dried up. It now turns out that those findings were wildly off base, and many families were falsely accused. How did the OSSE get it so wrong, and what does that say about its competency to oversee other aspects of public education?"
...

"Ms. Kang did not return our phone call seeking comment, but the “interim update” report seemingly tries to blame the school and students for bad record keeping or missing paperwork.

There may well have been issues with Ellington’s record keeping, and there were cases of residency fraud that need to be dealt with. That does not excuse the bungled investigation, which needlessly ensnared innocent families and potentially disrupted students’ education. Many families, for example, never knew they were under investigation until they were threatened with draconian penalties. That the city was chided in court — “someone is having trouble following the law,” one judge said — underscored its ham-handed approach. Most troubling is how the agency seemed oblivious to complexities in the lives of many children that can affect residency determinations.

“You owe Ellington, its students, teachers, administrators and funders — and the many families you falsely accuse — a public apology,” wrote Mr. Smith to Ms. Kang. We agree. Mayor Muriel E. Bowser (D) and the D.C. Council also should take steps to ensure better handling of allegations of residency fraud."

I’m waiting for some families to sue the city over this. The city would have to settle so it doesn’t become even more of a circus than it already is. No wonder Bowser can’t convince anyone to become superintendent.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:And, even if the total number of students initially identified were not all cheaters, their paperwork was dodgy enough to raise concerns, which overall indicates the registrar at Ellington is not doing due diligence. Just because those families proved residence, doesn’t mean the paperwork was proper up front.

This is what jumped out at me. Even if all the kids ultimately proved their residency, the fact that so many were enrolled with suspect paperwork is a problem. I can understand that a few students are going to have unusual living arrangements, but most people should be able to supply the requisite number of approved documents. The school needs to be vetting this stuff better.

We do not know what the paperwork problems were. If the registrar was sloppy, that does not mean that the paperwork was "dodgy" in a blame the parents way. I have filed residency paperwork every year for the past 9 years. This past year I forgot to sign in one spot and months later our school registrar caught it and reached out to me and I then signed correctly. She is a good registrar and I made an inadvertent mistake and she failed to catch it.

It is a really big deal that OSSE made such huge errors. It undermines the ability to rely on its work and public claims. Yes, cheating is bad, but so is bungled enforcement.

But it wasn't OSSE's error! It was a failure by the school to have appropriate paperwork for all families. At my child's HRC, which my child has attended for 6 years, every parent completes the residency paperwork every year. Even when the administrators know your family well. You meet with someone at the school to confirm it is all in order. And it is really simple. And at our school, which has a high percentage of low income families, they still find a way to get it done. Obviously, this was too much of a burden for Ellington's administration - perhaps they thought they were above the rules that apply to other schools and were too casual about the whole process, or perhaps they knew they had a significant number of nonresidents (15% is still a huge number) and didn't want to enforce rules that would have required them to take action against families. Either way, if Ellington failed to maintain the records appropriately, it is 100% Ellington's fault, not OSSE's.

I agree with this. Why was Ellington's paperwork so messed up in the first place? I think some of the notice procedures on OSSE's side could have been handled better, no doubt, but there are hundreds of other schools in the system working with students who have complicated circumstances who take this seriously and get it done.

Exactly, they have less low-income/transient students than some schools need the former DC Gov shelter and DCPS and they managed to get it done.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This thread seems like damage control to spin over the real story. Non-paying, non-resident students were (are?) rampant at the school, and its front office records were so bad it took an OSSE investigation to figure out how bad it was. And the initial local news report focuses on how the parents were offended by OSSE...just crazy, literally, imo.

Ten. Repeat --10, confessed to being non-residents. Hardly rampant. The other 22 or so "uncontested" includes people who did not get or respond to outreach. Doesn't make them non-residents.

But again let's stop playing games with the band aids. Let's get to the real issues. None of this would be an issue if DCPS provided strong enough arts education in middle schools so that Ellington never even think about letting someone in from MD or Va, tuition or otherwise. Some departments, such as Dance, need let in MD or Va people because there are enough dance training programs in DC that offer solid training. But strings? No way. Serious visual art? No way. Better arts training throughout the system and Ellington could function like all others schools, which is to only let in DC people unless they cannot fill a slot. Barring that MD and VA need to subsidize Ellington until such time as they create their own arts high schools.

You're still minimizing the scope of quite a large problem. From WTOP:

"The November report, released by the Office of the State Superintendent of Education, has revealed 65 percent of the 219 Duke Ellington School of the Arts students investigated have been found to be residents of the District, clearing them of all accusations of fraud. Another 10 percent of the accused students didn’t fight the accusations, five percent admitted to fraud and 20 percent of the cases remain open."

https://wtop.com/dc/2018/11/report-families-wrongly-accused-of-duke-ellington-school-of-the-arts-residency-fraud/

My math says that 35% of the 219 originally singled out results in a total of 77 fraudsters. Well, 44 of them have to go to a hearing, but if they haven't been cleared by now, it's not good for them. 33 clear fraudsters, and 44 very likely fraudsters. A lot.

Just deal with it.

+1000

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Too many people are thinking in extremes with this. It is very possible for two things to be true at once. One, that the paperwork turned in by families was accurate for the school to approve, AND two, that the later OSSE investigation (which looked at other evidence BEYOND what families gave) found new things that made them suspicious of fraud. For example, families who have houses in DC, cars registered in DC but work in MD and an employer who takes taxes out for MD (an immediate flag to OSSE). Those are the kinds of cases that got caught up in this, except that OSSE chose to declare non-residency rather than just ask families the question.

The burden is not on OSSE or the school to prove kids don't like in DC.

The burden is on the family to prove where exactly in DC they live.

Exactly, get a grip folks. OSSE did what they were supposed to do, the media jumped all over it, most of the things read online were not OSSE press releases and DCPS (school) did a shoddy job. The standards of proof should be the same at all schools, not less at another ...

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Too many people are thinking in extremes with this. It is very possible for two things to be true at once. One, that the paperwork turned in by families was accurate for the school to approve, AND two, that the later OSSE investigation (which looked at other evidence BEYOND what families gave) found new things that made them suspicious of fraud. For example, families who have houses in DC, cars registered in DC but work in MD and an employer who takes taxes out for MD (an immediate flag to OSSE). Those are the kinds of cases that got caught up in this, except that OSSE chose to declare non-residency rather than just ask families the question.

The burden is not on OSSE or the school to prove kids don't like in DC.

The burden is on the family to prove where exactly in DC they live.

But OSSE also had a burden to tell the family exactly what led them to believe they did NOT live in DC. Which they failed to do until forced to, by a judge.

Two wrongs don't make a right.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Too many people are thinking in extremes with this. It is very possible for two things to be true at once. One, that the paperwork turned in by families was accurate for the school to approve, AND two, that the later OSSE investigation (which looked at other evidence BEYOND what families gave) found new things that made them suspicious of fraud. For example, families who have houses in DC, cars registered in DC but work in MD and an employer who takes taxes out for MD (an immediate flag to OSSE). Those are the kinds of cases that got caught up in this, except that OSSE chose to declare non-residency rather than just ask families the question.

The burden is not on OSSE or the school to prove kids don't like in DC.

The burden is on the family to prove where exactly in DC they live.

But OSSE also had a burden to tell the family exactly what led them to believe they did NOT live in DC. Which they failed to do until forced to, by a judge.

Anonymous wrote:Too many people are thinking in extremes with this. It is very possible for two things to be true at once. One, that the paperwork turned in by families was accurate for the school to approve, AND two, that the later OSSE investigation (which looked at other evidence BEYOND what families gave) found new things that made them suspicious of fraud. For example, families who have houses in DC, cars registered in DC but work in MD and an employer who takes taxes out for MD (an immediate flag to OSSE). Those are the kinds of cases that got caught up in this, except that OSSE chose to declare non-residency rather than just ask families the question.

The burden is not on OSSE or the school to prove kids don't like in DC.

The burden is on the family to prove where exactly in DC they live.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Too many people are thinking in extremes with this. It is very possible for two things to be true at once. One, that the paperwork turned in by families was accurate for the school to approve, AND two, that the later OSSE investigation (which looked at other evidence BEYOND what families gave) found new things that made them suspicious of fraud. For example, families who have houses in DC, cars registered in DC but work in MD and an employer who takes taxes out for MD (an immediate flag to OSSE). Those are the kinds of cases that got caught up in this, except that OSSE chose to declare non-residency rather than just ask families the question.

Are you saying that the family provided ACCURATE COMPREHENSIVE information to register and OSSE still investigated?

I could see a situation where a family provided incomplete information and OSSE investigated. A situation with a car registered at one address and a utility bill for another address. Or address for student on form as 1 address and utility bill from rental property in DC as 2nd address.

But if you had all of your information compliant for registering and OSSE still did a search - that is an issue.

Yes - they did. Remember the example the Post covered re a grandmother whose guardianship of her child (in the student's Ellington residency paperwork) was questioned because the court document establishing custody was old/wrinkled and looked suspicion? It was OLD because she'd had custody since the child was an infant.

Anonymous wrote:Too many people are thinking in extremes with this. It is very possible for two things to be true at once. One, that the paperwork turned in by families was accurate for the school to approve, AND two, that the later OSSE investigation (which looked at other evidence BEYOND what families gave) found new things that made them suspicious of fraud. For example, families who have houses in DC, cars registered in DC but work in MD and an employer who takes taxes out for MD (an immediate flag to OSSE). Those are the kinds of cases that got caught up in this, except that OSSE chose to declare non-residency rather than just ask families the question.

Are you saying that the family provided ACCURATE COMPREHENSIVE information to register and OSSE still investigated?

I could see a situation where a family provided incomplete information and OSSE investigated. A situation with a car registered at one address and a utility bill for another address. Or address for student on form as 1 address and utility bill from rental property in DC as 2nd address.

But if you had all of your information compliant for registering and OSSE still did a search - that is an issue.

Too many people are thinking in extremes with this. It is very possible for two things to be true at once. One, that the paperwork turned in by families was accurate for the school to approve, AND two, that the later OSSE investigation (which looked at other evidence BEYOND what families gave) found new things that made them suspicious of fraud. For example, families who have houses in DC, cars registered in DC but work in MD and an employer who takes taxes out for MD (an immediate flag to OSSE). Those are the kinds of cases that got caught up in this, except that OSSE chose to declare non-residency rather than just ask families the question.